One-Line Rebuttals: Claims

This video covers the (mis)use of claims and describes the pitfalls to be avoided in a discussion or debate.

It's also the first video I've scripted, so forgive the slight hesitation in places when I glance up (forgive the glances too) to check my notes.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• Atheism
• debate
• resources
• claims
• evidence

[mechaart]

cool you have the V mask from V from vandetta

[irendelle]

Brilliant video dude! More power!

[AzmodanKijur]

True enough. My apologies. I believe I have been rambling a bit. It is so rare to discuss the finer points of knowledge with someone that I get carried away. I concede to your point as it would appear that, upon reflection, we are in agreement anyway. :)

[EdwardHowton]

This is all obvious, but it's important to remember that it isn't the authority itself that validates a claim. I wanted to point that out for anyone reading the comments after watching.

Authorities are useful, and they become authorities by being reliable with their facts on a subject, but it's important to be able to validate all the claims back to actual physical evidence, even if most won't actively question the line.

It's a small difference. That's the nature of authority

[AzmodanKijur]

Claims must be proven, but the claims of a valid expert can be accepted on the basis of their having valid credentials in a given area. I know little of quantum mechanics. When an expert in physics tells me that it is about 11 dimension strings, I accept that as I do not have the capacity to interrogate the claim and I have ample evidence that their credentials have been vetted by a professional organization dedicated to the production of knowledge in that area.

[AzmodanKijur]

If I tell you, in a discussion regarding some accounting or Auditing subject, that some aspect works like X instead of Y, I am making a claim.

However, by virtue of my credentials in the field, my saying it is X and not Y holds more weight than the average Joe. I am an expert in the field. Am I necessarily right? Not at all, but I am more likely to be right than the average guy. On a tentative basis alone, my claim should be given some trust before someone else (regarding accounting).

[AzmodanKijur]

This is a reasonable epistomological question and the focus of much philosophical thought, but it is not a functional means of reacting to the world. Yes, the expert may be incorrect and such claims would still need to be vetted against common sense, but one must provide them allowance for the validity of the claims they make. I am a Chartered Accountant - better than a Masters in the field of accounting. I may not necessarily be able to claim myself an expert, but I am no slouch either.

[AzmodanKijur]

I indicate that the book was written by a master geologist. You ask for proof of the claim. I provide a reference to the university he attended. You ask for proof that the university is accredited. I provide. You ask for proof that the accreditation is valid or meaningful. I refer to the International Accreditation Bureau. You ask for proof as to why they are to be trusted. And so on. To validate EACH claim is to drive to existentialism - that we cannot know anything outside our own minds.

[AzmodanKijur]

I grasp the base concept. My point was one of using the authority of an individual on a given claim if that person is indeed an authority on the matter.

I understand the need to validate the claims of others. However, one cannot continue that line of reasoning too far down the rabbit hole or they risk existential separation. For example, I claim that Mount Everest is 29,000 feet tall. You request validation. I produce a quote from a book as that proof. You then ask for proof of that claim.

[EdwardHowton]

Not quite true. In your X because of Y example, for X to be valid, Y's -claims- also must be valid. The authority of Y isn't proof, which is why arguments from authority are a logical fallacy in the first place. Even experts in a field can be wrong while talking about their field's subject matter, so you need valid evidence.

I made this video because I realized how misunderstood this is.