Is taxation sending in baby-stomping storm troopers?

Answers to bitbutter's questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8FMWsNkG28

Category:

Education

Tags:

• anarchism
• libertariansm
• taxation
• coersion
• force
• nazi's stormtroopers
• ayn rand
• gasbagging

[TheEfkk]

Stealing is not a normative term; it simply refers to the taking of property without consent from the owner. One need not justify an entire theory of morality to conclude that something is theft.

Furthermore, if a country decided that a Holocaust of atheists would be moral and then proceeded to carry this out, your position would force you to support this political action, ultimately supporting your own murder, which is a strange conclusion.

[randyhelzerman]

Apparently you don't understand my position very well.

[TheEfkk]

@randyhelzerman It is the logical conclusion of your beliefs about morality.

[randyhelzerman]

@TheEfkk It might be the logical conclusion of how you've misunderstood my beliefs. Or it just may be something irrational which you are saying for no good reason at all :-)

[bitbutter]

Ok. So you also agree that societal consensus is not capable of bringing into existence a 'moral right' to do X if that right didn't already exist?

[TheNakedAtheist]

-No, i'm saying that actions that are in accord with consensus run in opposition to what is morally acceptable to both of us. Do you agree?

Obviously the state does things that I consider immoral, but overall I think it is more moral (by my standard of morality) than the average person. In other words the consensus favors my position.

[bitbutter]

"If you're say the states actions can act in way that go against consensus I disagree, accept in the most extreme, and short term ways."

No, i'm saying that actions that are in accord with consensus run in opposition to what is morally acceptable to both of us. Do you agree?

[TheNakedAtheist]

continued..

I use the example of the Iraq war because on the face of it it seems to be a clear cut case of the state being involved in an "immoral" war. However it was, and continues to be a war that is supported by societal consensus.

[TheNakedAtheist]

-it can lead to actions that run in opposition to what is morally acceptable

If you're say the states actions can act in way that go against consensus I disagree, accept in the most extreme, and short term ways.

Example Iraq war. Even at it's worst 35-40% still supported it. A certain percentage thought we should withdraw immediately, and a certain percentage thought we should withdraw over time. The consensus was long term withdrawal. It was a compromise between immediate, and never.

[bitbutter]

"Once again I'll ask you to tell me who determines what is, or isn't moral, you? God?, a coin toss?"

I hope you'll excuse me; I don't want to get into that. What matters most for me is that our moral judgments are largely aligned. (eg. we both think that hanging people because they are of the wrong skin colour is morally unacceptable). From this shared ground we can agree, i hope, that societal consensus doesn't provide anything that we could call a 'moral right'.