The Semantics of Human Shields

First of all, I cannot respond to essay-length questions and arguments. I am busy and unable to engage in lengthy dialogues.

Full text of Goldstone Report - www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/.../UNFFMGC_Report.pdf

National article - http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090113/FOREIGN/591536290/1140

Economist article - http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-full-version/471346/0

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• Human Shields

[adribon]

Why so much attention for all the purported human shields of Hamas, and leave the infamous IDF "neighbor procedure" unmentioned?

[mbrown0315]

@adribon This comment leads me to suspect that you did not watch the entire video. I say explicitly (several times, I think) that I don't blame Hamas for its shielding strategy. This video is not about how reprehensible this or that tactic is. It's about the myopia of international law.

[adribon]

@mbrown0315 The issue you raise is quite interesting from a technical point of view. And unlike most comments on the armed Palestinian resistance groups you show comprehension for their position.  But in the end I feel you are mainly discrediting the human rights organizaions' reports which show the lack of evidence for the IDF claims that Hamas (and Hezbollah in 2006) use human shields.

[mbrown0315]

@adribon With all due respect, you're still not getting it.

[Arjuna1901]

You early on quote a line from the report which states that Palestinian fighters were mixed w/ the civilian population.

That does not imply human shields. Neither does 'operating from civilian infrastructure'.

In the 2006 Lebanon War, the villages had been deserted at the time Hezbollah began using them. The US Army War College report states similar findings to those found in the Goldstone on this issue of 'human shields'.

So while there is a 'semantic' concession - it's just that, semantic.

[mbrown0315]

Again, seems you did not watch my video carefully enough. I've already responded to all of this. And the US Army War College report does not say the villages were deserted, but only largely evacuated, meaning most (but not all) civilians had heeded Israeli warnings. Those who remained were probably often considered militants, as consistent with Haim Ramon's statements.

That's all. Go ahead and have the last word. I need to get back to work.

[oc00011]

@mbrown0315 (continued)sorry, also forgot to giv 1 other factor.. palestinians "receive more aid per capita than any other country" [middle east quarterly, summer 2008]. hamas also receives significant funding from iran. taking this into consideration, their potential in conventional warfare isn't as "suicidal" as u describe, in my opinion. take the '48 war, for instance. the only people that gave the jews ammunition for that war was soviet czechoslovakia, & we were outnumbered. fair point?

[oc00011]

@mbrown0315 "..hamas' completely understandable strategy of operating amongst civilians..." -no way understandable or justifiable. for it to be understandable, their entire movement, as declared in their charter, should be understandable &even then its morally bankrupt. what's understandable is for them to surrender if it means avoiding a brutal end to their group, instead of exploiting their civilians in this way. alternatively, what would be understandable is them taking a diplomatic approach.

[INdiverCT]

@mbrown0315 As I understand they use it 2 the extend,that there would B even more civilian casualties 4 media effects.I saw a vid,where some storage of weaponry caused double detonations @ gas stations, mosques&schools.Or when a Hamas official was warned,he phoned other surrounding peops 2 come together 2 crowd the house/tell civilians to wave white flag, so he can escape.fighting in a civilian area is one thing,causing more deaths another:Why again R they fighting,when settlers had left?

[cobey321]

Firstly, the Goldstone Report was just recently rescinded because its original report was largely assumptive and lacked sufficient evidence. Secondly, human shields or not, what are your thoughts on Hamas purposefully targeting Israeli civilians while the IDF makes sincere efforts to avoid Palestinian civilians? Goldstone himself, and others on the fact-finding mission, admitted this to be true in their latest findings.

[Suicide666Commando]

The problem is Israel uses excessive force in Civilian areas. Watch the video " Gaza: the killing zone" here on youtube. It shows the Israeli helicopters firing on a crowd of civilians. Hamas isn't stupid...... they know the Israeli's don't hestitate firing a shot bc of civilians. For god's sake, Israel just killed 10 activists when they KNEW the international press was watching. What about when Israelis bar the press from these conflict areas?

[LSRochon]

Israeli security services have fired tear gas, stun grenades, rubber bullets and on occasion live rounds at protesters.

There have been two fatalities among protesters and an American peace activist remains in a coma after being hit by a rubber bullet.

Monday, 15 March 2010

BBC