Are Morals without God a Delusion ? ( Q & A Session - 4 of 4 )

Morality Apart From God: Is It Possible?

What Is Ethics Without God?

Representing the Muslim perspective was Adam Deen: Adam is a former Islam channel presenter and intellectual activist who has been working in the field of Muslim apologetics for almost a decade.

He has contributed to debates on issues ranging from ethics, to religious philosophy and theology.

He is a member of the Muslim Dawah Initiative its formed of members from the Muslim community with experience in public speaking, apologetics, polemics, research and community work.

He is currently completing a degree in Philosophy at Birkbeck University.

He runs his blog www.adamdeen.blogspot.com

Representing the Humanist side was Mr Andrew Copson: Mr Copso is a British Humanist, He is responsible for education and public affairs at the British Humanist Association (BHA).

He coordinates the associations campaigns against faith schools, and for an open society without religious privilege or discrimination.

The Topic of Debate: Are Morals without God a Delusion ?

Adam Deen (Adamdeen.blogspot.com)

vs.

Andrew Copson ( www.humanism.org.uk )

(Birkbeck University, Bloomsbury, London, UK 30th April 2008)

Category:

Education

Tags:

• God
• Morals
• Morality
• Allah
• Islam
• Religion
• Science
• Adam
• Deen
• Andrew
• copson
• humanism
• atheist
• theist
• Humanist
• Humanism
• debate
• Atheism
• morals
• ethics
• Quran
• Koran
• Qur'an
• muslim
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• holocaust
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• Debate
• richard
• dawkins
• hitchens
• logic

[mrnq]

in all " does God exist or not " arguments the concept of God is the matter that is debated ,not which God is truely GOD. because thats a completely different matter. the concept of a creator or an absolute eternal giver and sustainer is the concept debated

[noosy12]

you'll see human language is a sub-language..

all that we say is just a sound or symbol referrencing the material objects that exist around us. Then ideas..which are how these objects stand in comparison to one another.

If you were looking for god to speak to you in a "language"..he did with creation itself. In the quran all material objects are called "ayat"..or signs..the verses in the quran are named the same thing "ayat" ... he created by saying 'be' and it was...we are his words.

[noosy12]

You know these different "gods" you speak of...you say they are different because of their name?? or traits? because you haven't answered that...

You know the word god.. comes from what persian word for god was which is Kuda. German it became Goti, In urdu you say Khuda...in the original bible god is referred to as Ala...in the hewbrew it is Ella....or if said with respect it is Elohim...the him at the end is the equivalent to MR

Christian Arabs call god Allah...Arab Jews call him Allah.

[rippa17]

Once a bedoiun asked the caliph(ra) how can be know Allah(swt) exist, the caliph(ra) told him, if you see a camal footprint in the sand what does that tell you? the bedoiun answered that a camal went past here, he asked him did you see this camal, the man said no, then he said the mountains, the stars and myself tell me that there is a creator.

That was good enough for that bedoiun and its good enough for me.

[rippa17]

The quran is the direct word of Allah(swt) revealed to mohamed(saw) in the 7th century, not menbut only 1 prophet.

B) the bible etc at a piont had the same message as I already explained, people distort them thats why the bible says lot(as) had incest david(as) was a murdered and rapist, noah(As) was a drunk etc, the quran sets this strait by praising them.

The other religiouns need to provide their proof the quran challanges them.

[RationalConclusion]

But there are countless other religions which have also say that their god is the only god!

What evidence is there for the existence of Allah anyway?

The quran is just a collection of writings by arab men in the 6th century, most of which being plagiarisations from the bible and other texts.

[rippa17]

Islam has told us the answer, only 1 god, 1 religion which men distort over time, thats why even in pagan religiouns such as hinduism traces of monotheism are left in them such as the verses about there being 1 god all powerfull with no known form.

Men corupted these teachings and new messengers(as) where sent, and the cycle continued thus until mohamed(As) was sent and Allah(swt) promised to perserve the quran thats why tens of millions memorize till this day.

[RationalConclusion]

But they're not the same god! They're all different.

As I said before there have been tens of thousands of gods which cultures have believed throughout history. Being "all powerful" is a common trait of these gods.

[noosy12]

ok, i do respect your question. I apologize if i might have come off to forcefull as these things are lost over texts.

My answer to your question remains the same...its the same god. I think what you pose when you say which one may be correctly phrased as which "laws" has this god asked us humans to prescribe to...and in this answer you will find many religions..but essentially they are speaking about the same god. am i right...if not can you kindly clarify so we can better discuss this

[RationalConclusion]

The answer isn't in my statement.

There have been many different gods in different cultures throughout history which people have believed to be all powerful. Which one?