A Response to James White: Can God try but fail to save?

Calvinists sometimes say that in Arminianism God can try but ultimately fail to save an individual (due to the Arminian belief that man can choose to accept or reject the offer salvation). But, when they say this, Calvinists are assuming that God works monergistically in salvation. They are also failing to distinguish between the words "Try", and "Desire."

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[patrckhh20]

This is so utterly absurd. You actually try to argue that God giving "prevenient grace" is not trying to save someone? You say He gives it because of a desire, but if God gives prevenient grace in hope that the desire will be fulfilled, how is that not God trying to fulfill His desire??

And see how weak and pathetic this system makes God. Where you, even when speaking of God saving someone, make it nothing more than God trying to do man's will.

[ThePristineFaith]

@patrckhh20 Your monergistic views are severely clouding your judgment. God tries (and never fails) to save upon man meeting certain conditions (namely repentance). Sir, with all due respect, your problem is that you are believing and accepting a doctrine that the church new nothing of for centuries after the death of the apostles. What happened to the apostles doctrine during these years?

[patrckhh20]

@ThePristineFaith Great response. You didn't even attempt to deal with my argument. All you could say was. "Yea well... you're just a monergist! Ha!" Not very convincing I must say.

[ThePristineFaith]

@patrckhh20 OK. Does the bible teach that when God wants to save someone, he can fail in His attempt?

[chaingang90]

Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Matthew 23:37

does it seem so strange to calvinists that great god almighty would want a people with a mutual desire?

[ThePristineFaith]

@chaingang90 Great point. Although White does correctly note that the passage in Matthew is directed toward the Jewish leadership, it still remains that they thwarted God's desire for them, and also affected Jesus' ministry to the common Jew.

[metanoeo1]

@ThePristineFaith No, it doesn't.  However, Arminianism does say that because it places the result of salvation in man's will, man's actions and what man chooses.

[Haukman66]

Umm...did Paul show repentance and faith? Nope. God saved him anyway. What about Jacob and Esau? Did Gods election depend on their works? NOPE.

[Bill244888]

If God is not trying to save those who haven't "met the conditions of faith and repentance", then why would He send the Holy Spirit to convict them?

[Bill244888]

John 6:37-39

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent me. And this is the will of Him who sent He, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given He, but raise it up on the last day."

There is nothing here about man "meeting the conditions for salvation."

Repentance (Acts 11:18) and faith (Eph. 2:8) are both granted by God.

[dgjesdal]

@Hello1689 Anything God commands an individual to do; He has made provision through the cross to enable them to will and to act according to his purpose.

I already know this line of thinking you will set forth and it will go back and forth :) Somehow God will do what he pleases and I have no right to question him. I'm not Q God, just Calvinism. I think I hear Pharaoh calling :)

[dgjesdal]

@Hello1689 Then you shouldn't have said, "The King had no intentions of sleeping with her". I said the King had no intentions of sleeping with a married woman. That is what was conveyed to the King in a dream; that is why the scripture identifies his “integrity”. The King was acting in character given the full story by God. Not God being the “Puppet Master” as you seem to imply. So why would you use this text? This makes you suspect on all the rest of the proof texting you will do.

[dgjesdal]

@Hello1689 LO even L - You need to read my post again carefully, and go read the text.

[dgjesdal]

@Hello1689

Here Son, run 10 mile for me, but before you do, I’m going to starve you so you can’t. God? Or Calvinism?

Genesis 20:6 is hardly a good example. This person was a man of integrity (T.D.??) and had no intent on sleeping with another man’s wife. God revealing truth – and a person acting on his integrity (CG) – shows God “restraining” an unintended sin. This actually supports my view, so thanks.