How Islam Began - Fred Donner

Islam is now everywhere in the headlines. In recent decades there has been much scholarly debate over Islam's origins. The traditional Muslim view has increasingly been found inadequate, but critical scholarship has not been able to reach a consensus on how Islam arose. The present talk surveys the issues at stake and a number of interpretations that have been recently proposed to understand just what happened at the origins of Islam 14 centuries ago.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• religion
• history
• islamic
• islam
• culture

[Klingschor]

@muslimgiga

إنك لجبان.. بل كاذب أيضاً

[muslimgiga]

@Klingschor what a stupid question.

Yes I can fluently read quranic arabic yes.

Now go on a rage. Lmao "Plagiarism". Well you must be either smoking or heavily deluded.

I'm done w/ you rabbits.

[Gunderson002]

Very well explained, althought here's one minor disagreement from me. I guess even if the Muslims didn't identify as a seperate religious community originally, they could possibly be considered as such, considering that some of the theology differs from Judeo-Christian scripture, such as the fact that in the Islamic version of the Fall of Man, it's Satan instead of the snake which tempts Adam.

That said, consideirng how ambiguous this area of history, we might never know for sure.

[Klingschor]

@muslimgiga

Keep telling yourself that - and no, you're wrong - the earliest Mufassīrs acknowledged to a degree the pre-Islāmic plagiarism in the Qur'ān: see Isrā’īliyyāt.

PS: Can you fluently read Classical Arabic?

[muslimgiga]

@Klingschor i hate to break it to you, but you have 0% credibility with me. You know why? Because I know people that have made it their life studying quran and they say other wise. "But they are all muslim!"

Go tell Georgetown's Berkley Center that.

Stop acting like your very knowledgeable on this subject because let me tell you....your not.

[Klingschor]

@muslimgiga

No, its not - I have excellent translations and translators available at my disposal, and I very much doubt YOU can fluently read Classical Arabic either, since most Muslims can't even read modern Arabic.

>"classical arabic is a dead language"

Yes, I'm well aware of that - I said that my friends can READ it fluently, without a sweat.

Basically, you're afraid, and it's easier to just call me a "usual YouTube troll" rather than to actually investigate this topic or talk to me live.

[muslimgiga]

@Klingschor it's common sense. You have no credibility whatsoever in this discussion kiddo. "I have "friends" who know classical arabic"

Btw classical arabic is a dead language, it's not spoken anymore lmafo.

......*smh* The usual YouTube troll.

cheers

[Klingschor]

@muslimgiga

That's a common logical fallacy and tactic used by Muslims - kicking the ball over the fence to prevent further discussion. This only indicates your fear and inability to debate, not any inherent weakness in any of my arguments.

I have friends who can read Classical Arabic fluently, and who would happily sit in a debate and cover that area for me.

But I'm suspicious: can YOU read Qur'anic Arabic fluently?

PS: Islamophobe? You ignorant twat: /watch?v=4hYzeqOCMvY

*Shakes head*

[muslimgiga]

@Klingschor well this is where I stop. If you are not familiar with Quranic arabic, your no credible whatsoever.

It's FACT see... that the Quran is the greatest work in Arabic existing today. Arabic grammar and rhetoric is based in Quranic Studies.

Lexicons and the first dictionaries were written (ex Sheik Sulaim lexicon from Abyssiniya) specifically to understand the Quran.

Btw I looked at your blog and it's clear that your an islamaphobe.

Cheers.

[Klingschor]

@muslimgiga

Come onto Skype and I'll tell lay out all the evidence for you - I have a few friends who can speak Arabic fluently and who, having studied Classical Arabic, can read it :)

/watch?v=RsV2Vn6wv0k

We're waiting :)