Free Will - What it Really Means

http://www.cprf.co.uk/quotes/freewill.htm

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• freewill
• free
• will
• calvinism
• predestination

[chrispollock]

funny. by your logic, god selects some for eternal hellfire and some for heaven. do you honestly believe that arbitrarily selecting some to suffer forever simply because you can is merciful? to choose to send people to hell when you don't have to doesn't strike me as the attribute of a loving god

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@chrispollock - I never said it was arbitrary. It never is. It is according to the purpose of his will (Eph 1).

God sends people to hell because they are sinners without a savior.

[chrispollock]

@JoelTheCalvinist then the purpose of his will doesn't include the well being of everyone. the purpose of his will therefore is that at least one person should be tortured forever for no reason since god can do anything and therefore can accomplish what he wants without hurting anyone.  no one forces gods hand, he makes the rules, so why would he hurt anyone for any reason if he can help it. strange

[JoelTheCalvinist]

@chrispollock - "then the purpose of his will doesn't include the well being of everyone"

You are exactly correct. His will includes the call to well being, but for the purpose of his own glory.

He definitely does make the rules.

[NathairSaille]

sin is a christian cop out....all choices have consequences

[JoelTheCalvinist]

"all choices have consequences"

Yes, they do. This is the foundation for Christian doctrine.

[patriotsfan1379]

it only chooses evil all the time! even when doing something"good"or"moral"it is not to the glory of GOD and without faith so therefore its evil in the eyes of GOD we are not even "free" to sin! since we live in GODS universe and HIS purposes must be fullfilled we can only do what,when,where,how and for as long as HE determines it to happen!man hates this!man hates this!he hates to think that he has no ability he wants to take credit for"any and or everything"he doesn't want to aknowledge GOD

[patriotsfan1379]

the problem with this is that the bible says 1- we are slaves of sin ! the question is at what time do people punch out and become free to make a choice any choice? at 9 pm? maybe some at 5pm? we are"sinfull" anything that is done outside of faith its sinfull and being driven by sinfull desires yes even eating doritos 2-the will does not make choices in and of itself ! it is the mind that makes the choice!! the will its subservient to the mind and since the unregenerate mind its an enemy of GOD

[roaringwaterbay]

the calvinist definition of free will is not the definition that most people commonly hold, so if you are an honest, you need to always spell out what the calvinist definition is before you start tossing the term around. wasn't it Erasmus who wrote the freedom of the will? you just happen to be pushing your calvinist take on the question.  your argument is a certain interpretation of the Biblical text--it's not the text; lots of Christians don't subscribe to your theological persuasion.

[slphillips05]

wow. I've never really thought about free will from the Christian perspective. I really must thank you for introducing a new idea to me (the idea that you don't have free will to not sin.)  Just goes to show that you CAN learn something from people with completely different beliefs.

[chrispollock]

@JoelTheCalvinist and his own glory includes the torture of his own creations if they don't believe in him. so he makes the rules, he isn't forced to do anything and so he voluntarily hurts people because he simply can. and you love this god? really? amazing. never come near me

[polopowers1]

Free will means the suspension of God Virtues or attributes..God would have to suspend power or knowledge etc to give man free will There cannot be two free will entitys in the universe at the same time and both be free.Unless they are of equal virtue and attribute.Only God is completly free.