Boulez: "Sur Incises" 1/3

Pierre Boulez explains his composition, "Sur Incises". Part One

Category:

Music

Tags:

• modern
• atonal
• new
• music
• French
• avant
• garde

[Hermoooo]

Amazing!

[mindbodylightsound10]

i'm personally of the opinion composer's should not reveal their secrets. it's very easy to come out sounding like a mad scientist. such as with this case. great piece, but really stop jerking me around by starting and stopping and commenting all the time.

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 Bruckner and Boulez may not lay on the same tonality spectrum, which has been in place for 4 centuries. However, I strongly believe that there is a broader spectrum to which they all belong to. Something I discovered when experimenting with atonal techniques myself is that the compositional principles of coherence, contrast, foreground/background, development of motifs, etc. are not very different from tonal music. The only radical thing is the harmony.

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 - is that wrong? For example, atonality in Wozzeck made it distinct and special, compare to anything in 19th century opera.

There are many systems of compositions which are non-tonal, and it's difficult to demonstrate that we can get accustomed to them like we are to standard tonality. However, does that mean that we should stick to mainstream pop, rock and film music in our new music listening repertoire? Do we have to eternally insist on "memorable melodies"?

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 The fact remains that tonality, in its Mahlerian stage of development, was something that some people could reasonably say they needed a break from. If you want to compose new music, sooner or later you will be tempted to challenge whether the traditional conventions of tonality are still needed for a piece to make sense - such as establishing a clear key and ending with a perfect cadence. Eventually you will come to the point where you want to express yourself in atonal terms

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 Do you hate atonality or atonalists? If you could "accommodate" them better, doesn't that imply that the well is already poisoned before the music even starts to play? The fact is that in the 1990s Boulez changed his earlier "serialist-only" radicalism. In this postmodern world recognized composers come from all different parts of the spectrum - Carter, Corigliano, Adams, Gubaidulina, MacMillan...but dodecaphonic/serialist music remains as an option, and it should be.

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 the way Strauss' tone poems are, for example? Does it have to invoke a concrete emotion/feeling? I dare say that that's not a must, although you might affirm it. There is definitely a place for Boulez's music, especially if it can invoke impressions of being exciting, interesting, spontaneous, energetic, refined, even fresh.

"I would be more accommodating to the atonalists if they didn't..." - do you hate atonality or atonalists? This opens up a flaw in your argument.

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 understand. Still, I find some coherent elements in it.

My perception of Feldman's comment is that it's more accurate stated as "Boulez is not interested in explaining how a piece sounds, only how it is made." Boulez does not make remarks as to whether his motifs and compositional techniques are "beautiful" or "poignant" or what. But does that even imply that he didn't care at all about those qualities? Now even if the answer is yes, DOES a piece of music have to be beautiful in

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 Still, the crucial difference between us is that you demand atonal music to stand up to the achievements and possibilities of tonality, such as "coherent, internally consistent syntax of pitch organisation." Granted, that non-tonal music can never have such properties to the extent of tonal music, i.e. nothing of Boulez can possibly ever equal the best of Beethoven, does it mean that it is nonsense and trash? Hardly. I openly admit that even here, Boulez's music is difficult to

[physphilmusic]

@Fredigundis22 I believe that we CAN be much better conditioned to atonal music if we are conditioned to listen to it much more - to the point that we can somewhat separate "banal" atonal pieces from the more interesting ones. However, I concede that it is difficult to get accustomed to it to the level of integrity as tonal music. The 300+ years development of tonality truly made it expand to a colossus of coherence which has never been equaled by the development of any other harmonic technique