A Few Pictures From the USSF March

Pictures from what I have now learned to be an incompetent photographer, of the US Social Forum's (USSF 2007) Opening March.

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News & Politics

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• WSF
• US
• USSF
• Social
• Forum
• Protest
• March
• Capitol
• Atlanta

[LaughingMan0X]

I think anarcho-communism could exist "within" an anarcho-collectivist society (specifically on a community basis). Or as a result of the evolution of an anarcho-collectivist society. I see gift economies as practical on a limited scale, brought out especially as a result of a social revolution. (or in anarcho-communist communities), yet more in more "casual" way, not in the sense of a formal economy. Yet currently, gift economies can be a way (small scale) to function outside of capitalism.

[BreakYourChains]

I basically agree. I consider myself a libertarian communist, though I am an anarchist first and foremost. I generally think a gift economy, when used on a completely voluntary basis, is possible under anarchism.  I'm curious, why do you think collectivism is the most practical/desirable economy? I confess, I don't know that much about parecon, collectivism, or even individualist anarchism.

[LaughingMan0X]

Sorry for the late response I've (consciously) gotten back in the last day. The real difference(s) between anarcho-collectivism and anarcho-communism is we believe in the remuneration of labor based on toil (or time and effort) as opposed to "each according to his needs", living by the idea that individuals determine their own needs and shouldn't be confined by any distributive body. Also, we believe in collective ownership of the means of production (employing participatory democracy).

[LaughingMan0X]

The real differentiation arises in the remuneration, because this implies (or can imply) the use of currency (or something acting as currency) which anarcho-communists believe could lead to the need for a state. Also, as to the distribution of goods, anarcho-collectivist (usually) advocate a non-competitive communal market (I use the term market regrettably for lack of a better one) as opposed to a communal storehouse usually employed in anarcho-communism.

[LaughingMan0X]

I could see a gift economy possibly arising, yet as to having it act as the dominant economic system (outside of say supporting groups), I think it would have to be the result of many years of progress/social revolution under anarcho-collectivism.

[BreakYourChains]

P.S., LaughingMan, I wish I could be there!

[LaughingMan0X]

Did you have to leave?

[DackBev]

What's a "communal market"?

[DackBev]

BreakYourChains, your statement: "you believe that it is acceptable for people to produce more than what they receive in monetary worth" doesn't make sense. The two are not related. A person is agreeing to sell his labor for a mutually agreed upon price. There's nothing wrong with making contracts for whatever terms anyone wishes to contract. Why shouldn't big business owners receive high incomes? If the income is in their contract, then that's what they should receive.

[BreakYourChains]

DackBev, if you believe that it is acceptable for people to produce more than what they receive in monetary worth in order for the "owner" of the company to accrue a profit, than I don't know what to say to you. You obviously come from a fairly wealthy background, for most working people would not agree with you. Why should Big Business owners receive incomes several hundred times more than the minimum wage, while almost 50 million people are in poverty?

[DackBev]

BreakYourChains, as long as you support voluntary measures, I don't see a problem. I'm against forcing people to help others with material needs. All assistance and aid should be voluntary. I don't care what economic system anyone wants to engage in, as long as they allow voluntary interaction and people to own the fruits of their labor as their private property.

[DackBev]

BreakYourChains, how can you say "worker at a factory or company can perform $200 worth of work in a day, and only get paid slightly over $7.25/hr"? Nothing is worth anymore than what someone is willing to pay for it. There's no such thing as intrinsic worth.

[BreakYourChains]

And yes, I DID say that collectivization and expropriation of labor and capital would be voluntarily. This means that the majority of the population would have to agree to live in an anarchist society, as well as the economies of the respective anarchist communities. Collectives only go so far in this society, as many collectives, while voluntary, are not as "prosperous" as capitalist-owned businesses, causing their workers to work for smaller wages.

[BreakYourChains]

Did the capitalists build their houses? Not likely. More than likely, construction workers built these illustrious houses, not the people that will be living in them. Helping those in need only goes so far, as inequalities in wealth frequently cause such problems as famine and poverty, and occasionally, wars based on profit.