23 Things They Don't Tell you About Capitalism Pt.2

Ha-Joon Chang: Companies should not be run in the interest of their owners

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[juliaisafilmbuff123]

Countdown to even more cries from ideologues, "THAT'S NOT THE REAL CAPITALISM!!!!! THAT ISN'T REAL CAPITALISM!!!! THAT'S 'CORPORATISM'!!!! RON PAUL SAID SO!!!!"

Give it a break, guys.

[Alberto2382]

Unfortunately no one asks the big questions anymore as Zizek would say. Will there be capitalism? Will there still be nation-state's? All of us are de-facto Fukayama's. As Mr.Chang himself indicates capitalism itself is inconsistent with it's own values and constantly going through periods of turbulence. Today's ecological, social, bio-genetic and economic problems are so large that the "free" market nor the state can handle. We need an emancipatory radical left more than ever.!

[justnotcricket]

@FutureKnut Fair enough, maybe the failure wasn't that epic :)

[FutureKnut]

@justnotcricket sorry my bad, on the positive side I've learn't something new, thank you.

[justnotcricket]

@FutureKnut You could at least understand what the word ideologue means before you attempt to be a grammar fascist.

Epic fail.

[FutureKnut]

@juliaisafilmbuff123 you could at least spell ideology correctly if you want to be taken seriously.

[QuatFax]

@kmarinas86 I'm saying that natural diseconomies of scale (such as transportation and protection of property) would, in a free market, limit the size that a firm could reach before it stopped being profitable. These diseconomies of scale exist in the real world, but they are compromised by government regulation and subsidiation.

The fact that no such society has existed yet doesn't mean one can't exist. Until 1800, there were probably no societies without slavery. But clearly they can exist.

[kmarinas86]

@QuatFax

"In a totally free market (i.e.- no government intervention at all), the economy would be dominated by small businesses, many of which would be owned and managed by their workers."

So you are claiming that a small business cannot grow into a large one taking control of most of an industry without government assistance. Any proof of this? I have not seen an economy without any government. I do not think that a country can even exist without a government to define its territories.

[QuatFax]

No, public ownership is bad, SOCIAL ownership is good! Companies can be owned by their workers or by consumers without coercive government intervention. The government is a mob; companies should be owned by voluntary associations of workers and consumers (i.e.- cooperatives)

[QuatFax]

Worker self-management is the way to go. Companies like Mondragon are, at least to some extent, owned and managed by their workers. Mondragon is one of the most successful, innovative businesses in Spain, and it is essentially a federation of worker coops. The same is true of the worker cooperatives in Emilia-Romagna, France, and Argentina. Workers are perfectly capable of taking control of production. AND THEY DON'T NEED THE GOVERNMENT TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

[QuatFax]

@AugustusOctavianus You imply a disparity that doesn't exist. Companies like Goldman-Sachs wouldn't exist without the government. In a totally free market (i.e.- no government intervention at all), the economy would be dominated by small businesses, many of which would be owned and managed by their workers.

[kmarinas86]

@asperin

"And how do you stop businesses from wanting to influence the govt?"

The reality is that you can't. Even if you use force, you can't.

As long as people work for a business, this won't change.

The only things which can stop business from doing this is making business irrelevant in the world. Anybody who doubts that humanity could be free from the obligation to work anytime soon would laugh at that notion. Any notion of attaining it would simply beyond most people's comprehension.