Gay Marriage and Proposition 8

Elder Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, answers questions regarding his speech on religious freedom at Brigham Young University-Idaho on October 13, 2009.

He argues that religious freedom is being threatened by societal forces intimidating those with religious points of view from having a voice in the public square. According to him, the aggressive anti-Mormon backlash after California voters overturned unconstitutionally-implemented gay marriage last fall is similar to the intimidation of Southern blacks during the civil rights movement. He wishes to impress upon each of us the importance of preserving the religious freedoms guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Full text of speech: http://bit.ly/1DGeOd

A writer for The Christian Science Monitor predicts that the coming century will be very secular and religiously antagonistic, with intolerance of Christianity ris[ing] to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes.[6] Other wise observers have noted the ever-growing, relentless attack on the Christian religion by forces who reject the existence or authority of God.[7] The extent and nature of religious devotion in this nation is changing. The tide of public opinion in favor of religion is receding, and this probably portends public pressures for laws that will impinge on religious freedom.

Atheism has always been hostile to religion, such as in its arguments that freedom of or for religion should include freedom from religion. Atheisms threat rises as its proponents grow in numbers and aggressiveness. By some counts, a recent article in The Economist declares, there are at least 500 [million] declared non-believers in the world — enough to make atheism the fourth-biggest religion.[8] And atheisms spokesmen are aggressive, as recent publications show.[9] As noted by John A. Howard of the Howard Center for Family, Religion, and Society, these voices have developed great skills in demonizing those who disagree with them, turning their opponents into objects of fear, hatred and scorn.[10]

[6] Michael Spencer, The Coming Evangelical Collapse, The Christian Science Monitor, 10 Mar. 2009.
[7] E.g., John A. Howard, Liberty: Americas Creative Power, Howard Center, 22 June 2009, 6.
[8] In Gods Name: A Special Report on Religion and Public Life, The Economist, 3 Nov. 2007, 10.
[9] E.g., The Six Ways of Atheism, which was advertised to absolutely disprove the existence of God, logically and simply, was sent free to leading universities and public libraries in all major English-speaking countries in the world. Press release, 26 May 2009.
[10] Howard, Liberty: Americas Creative Power, 6.

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[jmoonsuede]

@mermaidsareppl222 Hahaha if thats what you think, I'd get a real education before I make a statement like that.

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@jmoonsuede

You have no proof that it's a sin. That's only your opinion.

You disagreeing with gays is fine, but what's NOT ok is you interfering with their civil rights. That's wrong, and you're wrong if you do that. Get informed, imbecile.

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@danewage

part 2

You're dead wrong about the Pavilion. It was open for anyone of the public to get married there. Says so in the news articles about it. That's why the gay couple won the lawsuit... and obviously you don't understand the law. When something is open to the public, it has to be open to the WHOLE public. If that church wanted to restrict it, then they should have said it was only open to members of their faith. THEN they could have discriminated against the gays legally.

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@danewage

I'm not mistaken, but I know you are. You're twisting the facts to match your agenda.

IF there ARE steps being taken to "stifle the parents' rights to educate their children", they have nothing to do with Prop 8 or gay rights. Name ONE school district that says parents can't pull their kids from lessons they don't agree with... just ONE.

There's no double standard, you idiot. NO church should be forced to marry ANYONE against their will. It's CIVIL marriage, not religious!

[danewage]

@TheKinderhookPlates The pavilion was open for visits, but it was never open to whatever the public wanted to use for it; it's within the church's rights to refuse to allow certain activities on their property, regardless if that property is open to the public. It's merely punishment by some influential politicians for standing up for what they believe in.

No, it would be closer to a Catholics hosting a bar mitzvah on their land. They're allowed to discriminate based on beliefs on private land

[danewage]

@TheKinderhookPlates No, you're obviously mistaken. Steps are already being taken in Cali, and other parts of the world to stifle the parents' rights to educate their children as they see proper.

I disagree; participants, sure. but nowhere near the "dominant" source of the arts and culture that you claim.

What makes you think a gay's right to be wed is more important than anothers' right not to perform the wedding? Double-standard.

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@danewage

Part 2.

In the case of the Methodist church, they did NOT lose their tax exemption on their chapel. They lost it ONLY on a pavilion that had been open for everyone to use... in other words, there to serve the public. The Methodist group could no more refuse to accommodate the gay couple than a restaurant could refuse to serve a black man.

Answer this... what makes you think your religious rights are more important than a gay person's civil rights? Are you better than them?

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@danewage

Your comment is full of lies that you obviously believe. How sad.

Like it or not, gays have been dominant in arts & culture for centuries.

There's no children being forced to listen to sex education. As always, sex-ed classes are something parents can opt their children out of. That was the case before Prop 8, and it hasn't changed because of it.

If a civil servant can't perform their job of serving ALL of the public, should that person BE in that job? No.

[TheKinderhookPlates]

@jmoonsuede

Wait.... you said you were going to give proof.... but there wasn't any in your response. Fail.

[danewage]

@TheKinderhookPlates ...Mormon chapels were vandalized because of their support for Prop 8; elementary-aged children are being forced to attend sex-ed courses (formerly optional) that are now teaching same-sex activities, and parents have no say in the matter.

These are but a few things going down with the destruction of the definition of marriage (and we still don't know how far-reaching it will end up). So do religious people have cause to fear for their rights of free expression? Yes.

[danewage]

@TheKinderhookPlates Actually, yes; redefining marriage has already led to many infringements on the rights of individuals and religious groups to practice their faith as their conscience dictates. Public servants in Canada may be sued for refusing to perform a same-gender marriage even if they refer the couple to someone who will. A Methodist boardwalk chapel in Mass had it's tax-exemption revoked because it didn't allow a same-gender marriage on it's premise. cont...

[danewage]

@TheKinderhookPlates Please, regardless of your stance, it is quite presumptuous to assume the majority of art and culture was derived by homos. That makes the ignorant claim that heteros are incapable of expressing themselves artistically.