agree or disagree ...vol 1
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@HeroinChurch Just for my own clarification, when you say that we perceive pleasure as being better because we had a hunger for it in the first place, by "we had a hunger for it" do you mean our DNA, or our learned addictions?
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What trips me up is how the philosophy you espouse deals with questions of identity? That is a human phenomena made possible by language and not reducable to the intellect/reason or biological function and it is basically the medium of life (i.e. interactions and not the four cornerstones of consumption/reproduction/canni
balism/addiction). An existential suffering made possible by language isn't the same thing as a material one. How is it that you can interchange an apple with an orange? -
@HeroinChurch The argument isn't bad. It is a synthetic argument that just happens to be false. Pleasure is not the exact same as reduction of pain.
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@HeroinChurch So you admit pleasure exists and is not the same thing as less suffering. Great to have you aboard.
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@HeroinChurch Moreover, reward centers in the brain have been linked to pleasure and not pain. For example, a starving rat will cross an electrified floor to push a lever to stimulate the reward center of its brain, but will not cross the floor to get food. So can you please state your argument in a proper way and link me the peer reviewed studies that state that “pleasure is only an illusion stemming from the absence of pain?”
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@HeroinChurch Your argument that in your opinion pleasure seems contrived does not make it more of an illusion than any other illusion, obviously. The reduction of pain is the result of less impulses originating from nociceptors, the increase of resistance in a neurological gate, the release of endorphins, and not pleasure.
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@HeroinChurch It doesn't have to be valued by an objective being. The truth only has to be independent of an individual or social decision. So saying that "it cannot be valued by an objective being" is totally irrelevant. The claim that pleasure is shorter in duration does not entail that it is 'more of an illusion than pain.' For your argument to even get close to making any sense whatsoever the illusion with a longer duration would have to be labeled 'more of an illusion,' since it last more.
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1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree
4. Agree
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In Motivational psychology (which takes into account both physical and mental behavioral drives), the opposite of, say, pleasure is not pain. The opposite of pleasure (positive) is no pleasure. Same with pain. The opposite of pain is not pleasure, rather it is no pain. Pleasure and pain are orthogonal. While they may interact at certain levels, they are two independent states.
TBC...
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1. Agree
2. Agree
3. My understanding gets a bit rusty with the statement "pleasure being the absence of misery." Take, for example, a sentient being in a rather neutral state, no pain, no pleasure, zero on the scale if you will. Well, from this point, you can inflict pain and bring him down to a -5, or you can inject pleasure and take him up to a +5. So from a neutral state where no pain is perceived, how can injecting pleasure be the absence of pain? Sounds more like an addition.
4. Agree.
HigherPlanes 5 months ago 8
Part II: In other words, the absence of an ice cream cone does not cause suffering. The absence of a broken leg does not cause pleasure.
Hmmm, this would probably make a good video. I don't know if I could effectively communicate this concept though. I mean, I have a post-graduate degree in psychology, but I'm not articulate in speech. Only in text.
I b shmart wid words.
TheRecoveringZombie 5 months ago