1 Samuel 13:13 - Proof Positive of Open Theism -- Jacques More

Open theism -- the idea that the future is open in some things and thereby God does not know all things future is in opposition to Calvinism. Here a bible passage -- 1 Samuel 13:13 - is looked at to demonstrate that open theism is rooted in the Scripture.

For more about Jacques More visit ww.jarom.net

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[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy One thing you ignore is that the word 'know' in Hebrew has a larger and more expansive meaning than the English translation. By taking these verses out of their immediate context and larger redemptive context you can "eisegete" your Open Theism into God's Word just like the mormons do when the claim that the Father has a human body according to their verses out of context.

[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy One thing you ignore is that the word 'know' in Hebrew has a larger and more expansive meaning than the English translation. By taking these verses out of their immediate context and larger redemptive context you can "eisegete" your Open Theism into God's Word just like the mormons do when the claim that the Father has a human body according to their verses out of context.

[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy One thing you ignore is that the word 'know' in Hebrew has a larger and more expansive meaning than the English translation. By taking these verses out of their immediate context and larger redemptive context you can "eisegete" your Open Theism into God's Word just like the mormons do when the claim that the Father has a human body according to their verses out of context.

[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy Yes but when He shares the secret things they are now revealed (Eph 3:9-10)

"it is impossible if the decision to change a plan was made after that foundation." God's main plan from the foundation of the world was the redemption of sinners by Jesus' cross (1 Pet 1:18-20) your logic and reason here contradict the clear reading of God's word.

And yes God is not responsible or will all the actions of all those in His realm, but works in, with and under them for good (Rom 8:28)

[gracetruthguy]

Hi no1djkamilo, From the bible When HE says NOW this will not happen it means that. It would have earlier; it will not now A new plan is in play And before it was in play it was not a plan in existence and therefore not known as what would be. 1 Sam.13:13-14 When He says "NOW I know" I believe it Gen.22:12 When He is explicit about doing something in order to learn something: “God withdrew from him, in order to test him, that He might know all that was in his heart” 2 Chronicles 32:31 et al

[gracetruthguy]

Hi no1djkamilo,

Remember that He is the One that shares the secret things. Ps32:8; Jas1:5

But these never contradict the Word.

If by the end from the beginning you are referring to the foundation of the world as 'the beginning' then it is impossible if the decision to change a plan was made after that foundation.

This does not alter his sovereignty if you understand that like to a king having sovereignty since he too is not responsible nor does he will the actions of all those in His realm.

[no1djkamilo]

@no1djkamilo i meant to say "not knowable by God"?

[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy Where do you get this notion that there are things not knowable but God?

[no1djkamilo]

@gracetruthguy I'm being honest. I cannot say or go beyond what God has revealed about Himself in what He would or wouldn't have done. To do so, I believe, is to go into the secret things of the Lord, I will not go there.

So why can't God know all things (the end from the beginning) if He makes new decisions as He goes along (in your view) and seems to be in control of the affairs of things heavenly?

Why can't both be true (His freedom and sovereignty)?

[gracetruthguy]

Hi no1djkamilo.

I think you misread me

If God knows all that is knowable, then He knows much more than the things He declares.

NO, I was referring to things future. Only what is declared is what is fixed in knowledge of the future. And yet some things He declares alter - God changes His mind (in their respect; Ne never changes His mind in moral character issues)

King Hezekiah was told by God that he would die of a sickness, then after Heze prayed, God said, OK I'll give you another 15 years.