The Case For The Resurrection of Christ - Dr. Gary Habermas

This is from the same Dr. Gary Habermas debate I previously posted. Dr. Habermas does an excellent job!

For more videos, visit www.leestrobel.com for more excellent FREE Christian videos.

Todd Tyszka
www.toddtyszka.com



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[martiandog89]

@CapsHockey100 That's why Thomas stuck his fingers through Jesus' hands.

[sp1ke0kill3r]

@CapsHockey100 yes it is pretty shaky, but less for the reasons you seem to think.

[sp1ke0kill3r]

@CapsHockey100 You're very desparate to argue the hallucination angle. I'm not biting. Clearly I am, if anything-and accepting your definitions for now, arguing it could have been a case of mistaken identity among other things. No claim at all about hallucinations. I do like how you ignored my more substantive argument sent as a message in favor of arguing the hallucination angle yet again.

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r I thought we both were agreeing that the hallucination hypothesis is pretty shaky (to say the least).

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r Hmm. its been awhile, but it looks like we were talking about the reported appearances by the disciples and you were saying, and correct me if I am wrong, that they truly believed that they had these experiences with the risen Jesus, but that they were somehow mistaken in a manner that was consistent with hallucinations. But you were referring to Crosby and Nash which would have been illusions with external referents (while hallucinations have no external referent).

[sp1ke0kill3r]

@CapsHockey100

RE: Hall/ill defs

I suppose. But what would your point be?

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r Oh I am simply saying that when the Jews claimed a resurrection it was bodily and would not have been some sort of ghost experience. However, all of this is moot if you think that the disciples saw someone and were mistaken about who it was.

BTW, the Romans did NOT believe Caesar was resurrected. I wish we could talk about that, but we have enough other topics going to keep us busy at the moment :)

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r Well lets clarify then.

Hallucinations - seeing something with no objective referent in time or space (similar to a dream).

Illusion - seeing something, with an objective referent, but mistaking it for something else (i.e. seeing a rope on the ground at night and thinking it is a snake).

Fair?

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r LOL (sorry ahead of time if I am mistaken), Right so you are saying they had a hallucination or saw someone they mistakenly thought was Jesus :) Or am I mistaken here?

The event you describe is much like the one in Acts 12 where the Christians think Peter is dead and when they hear his voice they think it is his ghost. But when they see him they realize he is alive (we also notice they don't claim him to be resurrected).

[CapsHockey100]

@sp1ke0kill3r Lol, I am not trying to focus on hallucinations on purpose. It just seems like that is where you are headed. 'They disciples believed they saw Jesus but were wrong' usually falls into the category of hallucinations or illusions.