Christopher Hitchens - The Indifference of Heaven

The gods of the human primate from this little blue planet in the universe seem to be too small, too human and too petty to be the ultimate force in this giant cosmos.

"The human mind delights in finding pattern—so much so that we often mistake coincidence or forced analogy for profound meaning. No other habit of thought lies so deeply within the soul of a small creature trying to make sense of a complex world not constructed for it...
We are here because one odd group of fishes had a peculiar fin anatomy that could transform into legs for terrestrial creatures; because the earth never froze entirely during an ice age; because a small and tenuous species, arising in Africa a quarter of a million years ago, has managed, so far, to survive by hook and by crook. We may yearn for a 'higher' answer---but none exists."
Stephen Jay Gould

"A general problem with much of Western theology in my view is that the god portrayed is too small. It is a god of a tiny world and not a god of a galaxy much less of a universe."

-Carl Sagan

"I think that we reject the evidence that our world is changing because we are still, as that wonderfully wise biologist E.O. Wilson reminded us, tribal carnivores. We are programmed by our inheritance to see other living things as mainly something to eat, and we care more about our national tribe than anything else. We will even give our lives for it and are quite ready to kill other humans in the cruelest of ways for the good of our tribe. We still find alien the concept that we and the rest of life, from bacteria to whales, are parts of the much larger and diverse entity, the living Earth."

Big Universe. Small God.

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[fancestral]

As Hitchens says "No serious person can believe" that is it!

[Enginmaster]

@CBALLEN "spiritually insane"? You're spiritually stupid. And scientifically so as well. "nothing creating everything." IS NEVER said by any scientist. Just retarded creationists like you who lack even a middleschool level of understanding of basic physics, biology, chemistry, and astronomy.

You want me to believe your imaginary friend? Show me evidence greater than that for Santa. Enough said. If your god ordered half the things the bible says, he should be executed for warcrimes.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 Dude, your fictional god is a lying fuck. Enough said. He's even seen plotting how to lie to certain prophets to kill off Ahab. He can't get out of the first book without lying.

[grfield1]

@johnty1 totally out of context. in 2 Thess God is allowing people to follow their own foolishness and they are believing a lie presented by a future world system and not a lie from God. Because Jeremiah says that "thou hast deceived me" does not mean that it actually happened...it just means that Jeremniah said that and he probably believed it at that time.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 "Yes, satan spoke thru the snake to deceive Eve. "

Except for the part where he was telling the truth. Also you believe in talking snakes. Rofl. Did he speak through God to deceive too? Seems more likely. You've yet to answer which of those 2 times God was lying. Was it at the end of the Eden story, or the beginning? He said you'll surely die THE DAY YOU EAT THEREOF. Adam did not die the day he ate thereof. Enough said. He's a liar. Why trust a book written of a liar.

[grfield1]

@Enginmaster Yes, satan spoke thru the snake to deceive Eve. And Adam and Eve died right then and there spiritually, then much later they died physically. Spiritual death was their expulsion from God's presence (relationship) and the garden.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 When you self-contradict, that means one of two things. Either you're lying, or you're really confused and you don't know the truth. So either your god is completely stupid, and not omnicient...or he lied. Because in one breath he said "you'll surely die the day you eat that fruit" And in the next, practically, he says "yeah, you'll live forever if you pick and eat that fruit" Snake was the only guy who was being up front about that. Also, you believe in a talking snake. rofl!

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 Tell me, do you apply such shitty logic to your own life? If someone takes something from you, do you kill your own kid to forgive them? Of course not! Because one is COMPLETELY unrelated to the other. Sacrifice is a primitive bullshit belief that stems from the days that their god, like the aztec gods, needed blood to survive and as a bribe for good harvests. The fact you still cling to it is astounding.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 Sacrifices are important? That's immoral. KILLING something doesn't make you LESS guilty. Slaughtering and burning something won't appease a non-sociopath. Believing you're forgiven for imaginary crimes because of a human sacrifice is immoral and repugnant. God lied about the fruit. You said he didn't. Enough said. If the fruit ISN'T magic, he lied in the LAST part of the story of Eden when he says "we must get them out of here so they don't eat and become gods". Genesis 3:22-23

[grfield1]

@Enginmaster you should read about what believers actually think of these things, to understand why things like sacrifices were important and made at all. Even if u disagree, there are reasons why these things were done. God gained nothing from the sacrifices. They put off the judgement of God till the ultimate sacrifice could take place. Sacrifices are also object lessons for us as to the horrible cost of rebellion and sin. The fruit was not magical it was simply a test.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 Clearly your fictional character known as god does not always do things that he "would gain" from. What did he "gain" by putting magical god fruit in the garden next to people he created without critical thinking skills? What did he "gain" by demanding blood sacrifices? It's the most schizophrenic and poorly written book compilation in existence.

[Enginmaster]

@grfield1 "It is impossible for God to lie" But the 2nd chapter of genesis leaves no doubt. He DID lie. Guaranteed. The snake told the truth. If you cannot even see that, you're extremely ignorant. Do you need me to explain it to you? Sarcasm is not an argument. The point is, it's proven by the sun, among many other things, that the bible was not inspired by a being that wished to let us in on any secrets. It was written by a primitive human tribe with no understanding of the world.