Curved Vortex Lift (2010)

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In 2010 we (Giesbert Nijhuis and friends) build the first curved vortex machine (probably the first-ever), to discover if it is possible to lift a craft with both ends of a curved vortex. I didn't know if a curved vortex is possible to make, but our experiments proved that that is possible. Is seems that a curved vortex can lift, but the test results aren't clear yet. We are already working on new curved vortex machines. When ready, I'll post it on YouTube and my site. If it really works; please remember you saw it here for the first time!

Category:

Science & Technology

Tags:

• curved
• vortex
• machine
• lift
• flying
• disc
• craft
• tornado
• experiment
• giesbert
• nijhuis

[johnnyrebangel]

Hi Gies! Congrats to Alex, Bart, Ruud and Roy on the latest vortex work. You all have come a long way in a short time on this idea. Your video shows how a vortex can be shaped and controlled...which is the most important concept, and one that you and I and others have debated for years now. Plus, you actually measured a lift effect for the entire apparatus; very encouraging! --John Hudson, Redmond, WA

[Trebseig]

@johnnyrebangel Hi John! That was indeed the first question to answer: is it possible to create a stable curved vortex? I could image it wanting to jump out of it's place, but it turns out it will stay in one place IF the surrounding air is stable. The balance is very delicate though; if the winds or sucktion-spots aren't in "harmony", the vortex will disappear immediately. Are you going to build one? -let me know!

[makinamati]

JUST MAKE SOME RESEARCH ON COANDA EFFECT... IT WILL BE CHEAPER... KEYWRODS: COANDA UFO // NICE PRODUCTION THOU

[Trebseig]

@makinamati Have you seen the video of my coanda effect experiment? Darn; YouTube doesn't allow links here. Copy-past then. watch?v=WPUAq3QObp4 I'm hoping that curved vortex lift is possible and more energy efficient than the coanda effect. Also on my laesieworks site are two pages about the coanda effect. Search for "Coanda_effect-P1"

[Trebseig]

@scottrharris Wikipedia: "Wingtip vortices are associated with induced drag, an essentially unavoidable side effect of the wing generating lift." Modern civilian aircraft have these vertical wingtips to prevent wingtip vortex, to improve efficiency. Then again, the -sometimes- visible wingtip vortices are only the core of much bigger swirling air volumes, that can contribute to lift. Birds flying in formation make use of the vortex for more efficient lift. Not of the core of the vortex though.

[Trebseig]

@scottrharris Thanks for your reply. Small birds, insects, fish, they use vortices all the time. Dolphins make vortex rings to play with.

The wings of an aircraft, yes: how wing circulation, trailing vortex, and starting vortex are connected, together a ring vortex. Though in flight the connection with the starting vortex is soon lost. Wing circulation together with trailing vortex are together like a curved/horseshoe vortex. Still no examples of using the center of a curved vortex for lift.

[scottrharris]

@Trebseig The trailing vortices actually produce the lift. They induce a downward momentum flux that results in the force on the aircraft. On an airplane, there is bound vorticity on the wing, the trailing tip vortices, and a starting vortex left on the runway. In the invisicid limit, these vortices form a closed loop.

Consider a smoke ring: it moves because of it's own induced velocity.

Take a look at the Kutta-Joukowski theorem and the Helmholtz theorem.

[Trebseig]

@scottrharris Hello Scott. True; wing tips cause vortices, and rotating wings like a rotor or propeller generate curved vortices. These don't generate lift or thrust though, are considered a bad thing: a drag, a loss. An other difference is that these vortices have one end open, causing it to break down. A helicopter with zero airspeed, can create a huge vortex ring, and crash because of that.. I don't know of examples where the centers of a curved vortex are used for lift/thrust. Do you know?

[scottrharris]

Helicopters generate curved vortices.