Fringeelements vs. HowTheWorldWorks

All credit goes to Fringe Elements (Ryan Faulk)

http://fringelements.info
http://youtube.com/user/fringeelements

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• Fringeelements
• fringe elements
• howtheworldworks
• lee doren
• bureaucrash
• state capitalism
• corporatism
• libertarian
• austrian
• economy
• conservative
• marxist
• class theory
• freedom
• coercion
• Atlas Shrugged
• ryan faulk
• confederal socialist
• csmirror

[CSMIRRORMirror]

ZangaroZen said:

good video, thumbed up.

However I disagree on:

1. "HowTheWorldWorks has some potential, but right now as a vulgar capitalist...", NO he's a corporate imperialist, as per never on the wrong side of large corporate interests

2. "HowTheWorldWorks...will not convince anyone", he has 34187 subs/socks/morons as of Jun 24th 2010 versus 9454 fringeElements subs

3. The terms capitalist, entrepreneur, investor, aren't synonyms. Specifically capitalists have faith in the free market

[CSMIRRORMirror]

@ZangaroZen Well, I can't speak for FE, but I would say:

1. Seems like the same thing as vulgar capitalism. VC I thought stood for apologizing for the current system.

2. Most of those subs are probably Friedmanites or run of the mill conservatives. I'm not sure he has qualitatively convinced leftists because his philosophy is incomplete.

3. FE was defining capitalist as the "emergent planner of the structure of production" and that they would tend to go away over time on a free market

[ZangaroZen]

@CSMIRRORMirror,

1. "Capitalism" amounts to faith in the free market. A capitalist could be rich, poor, soldier, worker, whatever, as long as their faith is in the free market. Communists oppose the free market. Fascists and socialists are in between. Apologizing for vested interest amounts to a lobbist.

2. Agreed. Check any HTWW videos' text posts and you'll quickly note the lack of quality.

3. FE can equate "industrialist" as "capitalist" if he wants, but the accepted definitions differ.

[CSMIRRORMirror]

@ZangaroZen I still don't know what you mean by "faith in the free market." Capitalism is just a system that protects private property and voluntary exchange. There's an alternate definition, when he says "capitalist" he is using it as a Marxist would use it (i.e., the owner of capital that employs labor).

[ZangaroZen]

@CsMirrorMirror, you should, for greater exposure, post this as a video reply to one of HowTheWorldWorks videos, that is if HTWW hasn't blocked you already.

[CSMIRRORMirror]

@ZangaroZen I had the old comment thread in another browser, so that's how I pulled it back up. I guess everything is good now lol

[JesseForgione]

Entrepreneurs (as opposed to capitalists) would disappear in the "evenly rotating economy," a conceptual model that economists use to illustrate where market forces would put us in a state of no further change.

Where there is an opportunity for profit, entrepreneurs race to bid it out of existence. In a world of no further change, they cease to exist.

The capitalist would continue to exist in the ERE, though he would earn only the interest rate (the price of time), which would become stable.

[MrAntineocon]

@UltraConservative298 HTWW is the neocon's 'House Libertarian'. I have heard him meekly express anti war views ONCE. He exists to keep libertarins and Ron Paul supporters voting Republican.

[UltraConservative298]

@TheStrangerInTheRye Yeah, I am so sick of these bloody neocons who put Israel's interests before the United States. I call them Zionist traitors. He hinted that he does not support Ron Paul. I just know that it is because he is against fighting Israel's wars. I just know he is going to endorse the neocon scumbag Newt Gingrich, just like his favorite economist Thomas Sowell. These Israel firsters really disgust me.

[TheStrangerInTheRye]

Lee says he is against all subsidies and market regulations. At times it may seem as if he advocates positions contrary to this, but he does it for the sake of argument, as in "given x, you would still be wrong because y" although he doesn't advocate x. He really is inconsistant on some issues though.

He consistently supports neoconish candidates that support Israel (as does he) and provides links to israeli/jewish news sites, he seems like a single issue voter biased in support of Israel.

[zbigniewzapora]

@LibertyDownUnder

HTTW is not advocating markets consistently - he makes arbitrary exemptions. It is worth pointing that out to people that value consistency. To me this is not a minor thing. Is pointing out a fact divisive? I bet it is. Is pointing out a fact counter-productive? Counter-productive to what goal? As long as he points out facts and truth I don't see this as a bad thing - this is the way we became free-marketeers in the first place after all.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@zbigniewzapora, well my point is that the author of the video, who is advocating fee markets, is doing more damage than good by pointing out minor issues he doesn't agree with HTTW on.

Since many would subscribe to both I see this as divisive and counter productive.

[zbigniewzapora]

@LibertyDownUnder

I don't see how argumentum ad populum proves your point.

[LibertyDownUnder]

@zbigniewzapora, well I think it's just splitting hairs, and focusing on issues that less than 1% of people would care about.

[zbigniewzapora]

@LibertyDownUnder

For one HowTheWorldWorks is minarchist (at best) and Fringeelements is ancap. That is pretty big difference. Seeing as their philosophies are different there is no additional division taking place - just pointing out the obvious. It is productive, I would dare to say essential, for people to differentiate between anarcho-libertarianism and minarcho-libertarianism.

[stealthswimmer]

According to Mises's concept of the evenly rotating economy, capitalists still exist and make money in the long run (long run equilibrium). The thing is that he differentiates the profit they make. In equilibrium there is no (economic) profit, only accounting profit...and this profit in the evenly rotating economy comes from interest. So in long-run equilibrium, capitalists exist because they are earning interest by creating "future goods" and selling them when they become "present goods"