A Stupid Idea

I have a really stupid idea I want you to consider. No, really.

Category:

News & Politics

Tags:

• government
• taxation
• law
• authority
• heating

[TheHomoludens]

I agree with your conclusion, that statism is a system of believes that leads to structures that ultimately collapse - that´s the effect of all systems built on false premises.

Otoh: without any government how do you expect to be able to defend private property against violent gangs? Wouldn´t that mean having to create "defense gangs", too? Back to the same cycle?

Or is your logic like: government can´t be based on morals, so abandon government?

[LarkenRose]

@TheHomoludens Actually, defending private property requires an ABSENCE of "government," since every "government" steals property. The difference is, when it's called "authority" and "law," most people imagine that the gang called "government" has the RIGHT to do things which us mere mortals don't (initiating violence against innocents). Organized defense can only be effective when people let go of the most dangerous superstition.

[LarkenRose]

@STARFIRESOLAR You don't think "taxes" are taken by force? You obviously DO advocate that individuals be forced to fund something they're against (military and police), and I'm betting "necessity" and the "common good" will be what you use to try to justify it. Like I said, being a collectivist statist, you have far more in common with the Democrats than I do. The only difference between "conservative" and "liberal" statists is how they want to spend the stolen loot.

[bryphi77]

I see you fighting with all these retards on a daily basis. The sad truth of the matter is...

These people that you argue with on here are the very same people who would have died off generations ago if not for their nanny... So it is no surprise that they will defend it to the death, cause without it they would indeed be dead.

Dependent brainwashed retards make the best slaves...

I would be interested to know your opinion on how you think land should be divided amongst the population?

[TheHomoludens]

@LarkenRose One more thing about "authority myth":

I have the impression that most libertarians are following this myth just like the majority of the world population.

Reading about Mises, Rand, Hoppe or Rothbard really made me wonder, how people could take these authors seriously. They all feature logical inconsistencies.

It should be clear by now, that I´m no follower of statism, but none of the libertarians´ answers was intellectually satisfying to me.

[TheHomoludens]

@LarkenRose One of the hardest realizations I had - starting with "free will" and my conflict with "herd mentality"- is that "sheeple" do live according to their own choices.

How´s that supposed to change?

I know that sounds pretty pessimistic, maybe I am...

[TheHomoludens]

@LarkenRose Yes, "if people lose their "authority" myth"...

That´s a big "if".

[LarkenRose]

@TheHomoludens I don't buy the 90% psychopath stat, but whatever the level of psychosis, negligence, or just plain malice might be, step one is: don't give anyone a throne, or the (supposed) right to rule. Most people, as stupid and/or nasty as they are, get along remarkably well, most of the time, EXCEPT when it comes to "government," which almost everyone tries to use to violently control everyone else. If people lose the "authority" myth, their personal shortcomings will be almost trivial.

[TheHomoludens]

@LarkenRose One more question: several authors have stated a number of over 90% psychpaths in western societies. So how are we going to get out of this mess?

[TheHomoludens]

@LarkenRose LOL, sorry man, but I´m past that realization.

I don´t have any master and I´ve never in my whole life ever looked for one.

I think societies have the governments they deserve or rather created. As long as people don´t want to take full responsibility, that crap will continue.

[LarkenRose]

@TheHomoludens Arguing over what "government" should do is like arguing over what Santa Claus should do. As long as people imagine a legitimate ruling class ("government"), what the subject class HOPES the parasites will do doesn't matter much. This is demonstrated by how rarely (i.e., never) political action has led to more freedom and less oppression. Freedom will come when we stop arguing over how hard the master should whip us, and start realizing that we don't have a rightful master.

[TheHomoludens]

@ThisMachineKillsReds "The unfortunate fact is that it seems VERY easy to scare people into thinking organized violence is 'necessary' to civil society, ..."

That´s called Stockholm syndrome... those profiting usually have gambling addiction, both sides have in common that their empathy is killed; they need each other to coexist, but unfortunately make the majority of "western" citizens.

Good book illuminating the psychology of that: "insanity of normalcy" by Arno Gruen.

[TheHomoludens]

@ThisMachineKillsReds Otoh I don´t think there´s an alternative to cutting back the excesses of government (imho most important: unconstitutional militaristic imperialism) and opening a debate about what a government really has to do. I agree with much of minarchism.

But getting there will be painful for many and unfortunately the statists have well prepared their fascism 2.0 (NDAA, Fema,..).

At least the times aren´t boring (albeit I´d wish for faster developpments)...

[TheHomoludens]

@ThisMachineKillsReds You liberterians seem to worship the illusion of "hard-working achievers" while ignoring that all "western" countries still profit from centuries of exploitation of the third world resources and people and structures built by earlier generations (from roads to electricity).

I´m pretty sure that in ten or twenty years the western countries will have a similar economic level as the BRIC-countries.