Goodness Without God is Good Enough: William Lane Craig vs Paul Kurtz 4/7

A debate between renowned Christian apologist and philosopher William Lane Craig and prominent humanist philosopher Paul Kurtz at Franklin & Marshall College discussing whether God is necessary for a sound foundation for morality.

Category:

People & Blogs

Tags:

• William
• Lane
• Craig
• Paul
• Kurtz
• Morality
• God
• Theism
• Atheism
• Humanism
• Nihilism
• Goodness

[ihateneocons]

why cant i curse?

whats so wrong?

we're all adults here, i would think.

and im asking you honestly, do you favor censorship?

[Christianjr4]

It's not so much the cursing, it's the explicit insults that I don't allow. Not only is it disrespectful and offensive, it also detracts from the discussion. It turns the debate from a respectful and sincere discussion about an argument or position into a childish one in which people just throw insults at the other side in order to score points. If that's censorship then so be it. I won't allow it. And it's precisely that we're adults that we shouldn't say such things.

[ihateneocons]

rather than give me thumbs down and tell me i was being profane - tell me what you disagree with.

i said nothing profane. this is oh so very typical.

[Christianjr4]

Yes, you did. I don't know allow excessive insults and profanity directed by any speaker in the video or other persons in the comments section. This goes for everyone, and as such, I have deleted those comments before by such people, regardless of their beliefs. Since you clearly used profanity (the worse kind) and clearly directed it against a person, I simply deleted your comment. Don't want your comments deleted, then don't make those kind of statements. Your other comments are still up.

[4um360]

"Impossible for atheists to condemn war" (2:12)? Should we asume theists have the moral standing to do so? The god of the Bible requires war. Read 1 Samuel 15:2-3. This is just one example of many in the Bible. Kurtz has it right; no moral atheist or deist would dare give the orders god gave Saul through Samuel.

[lukeism2]

if god doesn't exist.. then william lane craig would probably rape someone then jump off a cliff

[CompEAgnostic]

This guy is well spoken, but he does not explain why god has the ability to determine what is moral. If it is because godis all-powerful, is that not the epitome of "Might makes right?" We all know that might does not make right. The fact is that god does not determine morality (whether he exists or not), although it is concievable that god could reveal morality to us. But this is dangerous. Even believers know that wing-nuts do all kindsof crap in the name of god. So why not just use reason.

[meangreen4321]

All this talk about "grounding values" is just philosophical meandering. Morality is acting on our internally perceived notion of right and wrong. Morality can exist apart from God, and no doubt has evolved along with our species. We can't point to animals for comparison because the rules are different. They don't even have moral capacities or choices. If we were a bunch of stone-age nincompoops, perhaps killing a hunting rival and stealing his boar was acceptable behaviour for that era.

[meangreen4321]

@snackynak

I had a rethink about your hypothetical scenario. If the gun was pointed at your own head, you would have a legitimate choice to deny God and live, or confess God and die. However, if the gun is pointed at a loved one, it means we have an irreconcilable moral dilemma. A solution would be to pray to God to intervene, and if nothing happens, ask for God to forgive your subsequent denial.  Saving a person's life is paramount over any faith confession.

[meangreen4321]

oh God... I hope I would never have to rely on a fundamental theist to make a moral decision, if my life were hanging in the balance. You'd sooner let someone blow my brains out than take a chance that God will forgive your denial. That is SAD!!!

[meangreen4321]

As if "life and death" situations weren't bad enough!! This just goes to show the moral dilemma that Christianity can create with stakes like these. If God would damn someone for taking option A, he would be the most vile, monstrous, savage deity in the cosmos!

[meangreen4321]

My point is, we NEED morality to function as a society. Resorting to Nihilism would be harmful and malignant to mankind. I used the word "illusory" only in the sense that we can't fully and objectively know what is the "true" morality, but we can use our rational facilities to determine what is moral. Religion claims to have an infallible moral code, but this appears to be more a product of ancient cultures than of God.

[snackynak]

The question isn't necessarily about which is immoral or moral, but which one does the greatest good.

So telling the truth takes precidence over saving someone's life by lying or truthfully rejecting god?

Also, if dying for someone can be considered the greatest act of love, then what about sacrificing one's own eternal life for someone else's? wouldn't that be considered an even greater act of love?

[collins1188]

"IF humanity can achieve "illusory" morality to help us function as a society, then that's great!"

That's the most hypocritical thing I have ever heard. Isn't the most basic and fundamental talking-point for the atheist world view that God is an illusion and thus we SHOULD NOT believe in him.... thus "The God Delusion"....

wow...