@Satarack "if a selfish person doesn't care about the well being of the human race then why should he follow such morals?"
Of course. But that person clearly exists, regardless if there is a god or not. And there are people who cannot be reasoned with, regardless if there is a god or not. But what does that have to do with your own moral compass? We arn't talking about his morals, or lack there of. We're talking about your own.
@Satarack "If your conclusions depend on your knowledge; then as your knowledge changes, so will your conclusions."
Yes, of course. Which is why we can only make decisions based on the knowledge we have at the time. But this goes for anyone. You base you knowledge on things you read in the bible. But if you found you misread them, or if you found a passage you didn't read, your morality would change.
@Satarack "morals don't exist without a foundation."
And how is helping human life not a foundation for a moral compass? You base your moral compass on a collection of stories, in which one of the characters in the stories says people should do certain things. So how is the 'house of cards' analogy good for my argument, but not for your own?
@Satarack "But how do we derive morals from God? Well, God is defined as the greatest being. By greatest we mean most worthy of worship, that there is no conceivable being that could exist that would be more worthy of worship than God."
I view such a being as still unworthy to worship. Blindly following and obeying something/someone is extremely dangerous, in my opinion.
@Satarack "You see, if you try to reason with a person like that they'll just laugh at you. They'll tell you that just because I don't want to feel pain, doesn't mean that they are somehow obligated not cause pain in others."
If someone has no problem causing pain to others, do you really think you could reason with them by saying 'a magic man who created the moon and the stars said in a book once that what your doing is bad' would work? Why would they feel an obligation to obey God?
@Satarack "IWhat reason is there that I should obey morals when they benefit society but not necessarily me?"
If you view human life as good, that means people other than yourself. It does not take much empathy to understand other people have emotions like yourself, and are capable of being hurt, like yourself. If you view hurting people as wrong, then why would you hurt people? There are millions of atheists who could do all the things you mentioned, but don't.
@Satarack "if a selfish person doesn't care about the well being of the human race then why should he follow such morals?"
Of course. But that person clearly exists, regardless if there is a god or not. And there are people who cannot be reasoned with, regardless if there is a god or not. But what does that have to do with your own moral compass? We arn't talking about his morals, or lack there of. We're talking about your own.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "Finally, such a morality based on logic would not be binding."
When did I ever say I based my morality soley on logic in itself?
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "If your conclusions depend on your knowledge; then as your knowledge changes, so will your conclusions."
Yes, of course. Which is why we can only make decisions based on the knowledge we have at the time. But this goes for anyone. You base you knowledge on things you read in the bible. But if you found you misread them, or if you found a passage you didn't read, your morality would change.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "morals don't exist without a foundation."
And how is helping human life not a foundation for a moral compass? You base your moral compass on a collection of stories, in which one of the characters in the stories says people should do certain things. So how is the 'house of cards' analogy good for my argument, but not for your own?
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "On such a definition, God must also be morally perfect"
Who says? God? That is circular reasoning. My sandwich is morally perfect, because I cannot conceive of a more perfect sandwhich than it.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "But how do we derive morals from God? Well, God is defined as the greatest being. By greatest we mean most worthy of worship, that there is no conceivable being that could exist that would be more worthy of worship than God."
I view such a being as still unworthy to worship. Blindly following and obeying something/someone is extremely dangerous, in my opinion.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "You see, if you try to reason with a person like that they'll just laugh at you. They'll tell you that just because I don't want to feel pain, doesn't mean that they are somehow obligated not cause pain in others."
If someone has no problem causing pain to others, do you really think you could reason with them by saying 'a magic man who created the moon and the stars said in a book once that what your doing is bad' would work? Why would they feel an obligation to obey God?
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "IWhat reason is there that I should obey morals when they benefit society but not necessarily me?"
If you view human life as good, that means people other than yourself. It does not take much empathy to understand other people have emotions like yourself, and are capable of being hurt, like yourself. If you view hurting people as wrong, then why would you hurt people? There are millions of atheists who could do all the things you mentioned, but don't.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago
@Satarack "Secondly, I have been given a command by God not to take the life of another; doing so would violate that command."
What why shouldn't you violate that command? Yeah, he'll burn you in hell for all time, but maybe you like torture.
Alp00000000000000001 1 month ago