So you're saying Jesus rose from the dead?

Did Jesus rise from the dead? This is an important issue because it can completely falsify Christianity if it's not true and would verify Christianity if it is true.

You be the judge.

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Education

Tags:

• jesus
• christ
• rise
• dead
• resurrection
• easter
• atheist
• habermas
• gary
• licona
• mike
• michael
• myth
• mark
• wood

[D3PyroGS]

Ok, here's a theory. The authors of the Bible made most of it up. There you go.

[thwonk121]

@D3PyroGS

What historical evidence do you have from the first century or two after the event to base your theory on?

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121 You're the one making the claim that something happened, so you have to back it up with historical evidence (and the bible doesn't count).

[thwonk121]

@D3PyroGS

I spent 10 minutes going over 5 lines of evidence and offered a challenge to come up with a naturalistic theory on the resurrection of Jesus that included certain types of evidence.

You said, "Ok, here's a theory. The authors of the Bible made most of it up. There you go."

You offered an alternative theory and I asked you to offer some evidence as well. So, the ball is in your court. :-)

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121 Even if there was an empty tomb, that would only mean that a body wasn't there. It wouldn't imply that someone was resurrected more than if we found a tomb empty today. The disciples could have stolen the body (and we read something different in the Bible), it could have been moved to a common grave (and he wouldn't have been identifiable), or they could have just gone to the wrong tomb. I'm just throwing out ideas. Some might be unlikely, but they're more likely than a resurrection.

[thwonk121]

@D3PyroGS

I'd be happy to show you the extra-biblical references that deal with the above lines of argumentation. I would combine 2 & 3 as the same, but we can use your numbering. Before I move on, why do you at once dismiss the ancient documents that make up the New Testament? Even if they turn out to be less than completely accurate, at least we can agree that they are somewhat accurate or at the very least ancient literature.

[alabamarocks21]

that is an easy question with an easy answer duh yes it happened

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121 I discount them because they talk about all kinds of unverified supernatural events taking place that are found nowhere else in history. The Gospel accounts differ in many places (and I'm only talking about the canonical ones - other gospels vary even more widely) casting doubt on an already very suspicious collection of documents. And earlier you told someone to look up a few references, but none of those are contemporary accounts and the Talmud doesn't say what apologists claim.

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121

4) This is only found in the Bible as well. He did not claim to see the risen Jesus but only a vision (with two contradictory accounts). Those are two different things. From his writings, it is inferred that a resurrection was spiritual, not physical. There is further evidence from the Bible that Paul was not a trustworthy man to begin with.

5) I'm not sure how this relates or if it is a part of history at all.

6) This is not a point vindicated by history either. More on the next post

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121

1) Where is the historical evidence? You said that all historians agree that this happened. That's a patently absurd claim. There's really no evidence for this outside the Bible.

2) This too is only found in the Bible. We barely know anything about the apostles from the Bible, much less what they did after the stories in the Bible were written.

3) The martyrdom stories are nothing more than church tradition. The ones we know were killed were for political reasons, not religious ones.

[D3PyroGS]

@thwonk121, These lines of evidence are what I picked up from the video.

1) Jesus died on a roman cross

2) Followers believed they saw him resurrected from the dead.

3) They died for their beliefs

4) Paul thought he saw Jesus and changed his life (persecutor to follower) and was executed for his beliefs

5) James, the brother of Jesus, finally admitted that Jesus was the Messiah and became a leader

6) The empty tomb

I'll try to provide a response to each of these as concisely as possible.