Paul Ewald: Can we domesticate germs?

For those interested in the OPV vaccine theory of HIV please see the following paper which shows that HIV originated in humans too early to be the result of contaminated polio vaccines:

Worobey M, et al (2004). Origin of AIDS: Contaminated polio vaccine theory refuted Nature 428: 820.

There was no conspiracy. Government Scientist were working on a new vaccine at a lab in Africa. They propagated the disease on monkey tissue. They then tested said vaccine, not knowing that the tissue carried the HIV. It was injected into humans.

Actually the virus is closely related to SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) which has been in wild ape populations probably for hundreds of thousands of years.




Epidemiologists have done genetic testing and other things and estimate that SIV first crossed into humans and mutated into HIV in the very early 20th century, presumably from eating poorly cooked bush meat.

Plus... there were no vaccine labs in that part of the world in 1920!

"Epidemiologists have done genetic testing and other things and estimate that SIV first crossed into humans and mutated into HIV in the very early 20th century, presumably from eating poorly cooked bush meat."

Everything I read suggest it wasn't the 20's but more like the late 50's.

The earliest known blood sample containing antibodies against HIV was traced back to 1959. I can not find any evidence that the disease existed before then.

Scientist like to have *evidence* so there must be some in existence somewhere...if you know of it, please do share!

They "estimate" and they "presume" but where is the evidence?

Genetic testing of populations of the virus, along with known rates of mutation, allow a kind of HIV paternity testing to be done. We can trace mutations back to work out when particular genes evolved and thus put a date on when one strain split from another one.

If you wish to see this evidence try doing a PhD in genetics, then you'll understand the peer reviewed published papers which any subscriber to the applicable scientific journals can read.

Not all of that information is on Google!

Enough with the ego...I get it, you have a degree...

"If you wish to see this evidence try doing a PhD in genetics, then you'll understand the peer reviewed published papers which any subscriber to the applicable scientific journals can read."

That's all I'm asking for - evidence - . Do you have any? I have access to many peer reviewed journals, any reference would do...

Do you think that a person tested in 1959 was the first person to contract it? The virus emerged in an undeveloped part of Africa where medical facilities were not fantastic. What do you think are the odds that they managed to find patient 0? Do you think it might be possible that this first verified HIV case was not in fact the first person to get it?

Multiple lines of evidence lead to the estimate that the first HIV infection was some time around the 20s and we only noticed HIV much later.

"Multiple lines of evidence lead to the estimate that the first HIV infection was some time around the 20s and we only noticed HIV much later."

Reference?

That's all I'm asking for. I've looked myself, so I figured you either know about something I can't find...or you're brainwashed by your pharma-textbooks.

Which is it? : )

Medical facilities were not "fantastic" in Africa but vaccine programs were/are. They use people of lesser means as guinea pigs.

No, I'm not saying it's impossible for someone to have had HIV/AIDS in the 20's. However, the idea that one person, or even a few persons were the ones who spread it into the epidemic numbers that it suddenly reached...

Suddenly - and the outbreak of AIDS certainly does coincide with the dates of the vaccine program unofficially carried out by Koprowski.