Strobel Under Fire - Part 3 of a Four-Part Series
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@perichoresis7 a real "person", not an "author", retelling a story would NOT split Jesus' scene into two and insert Peter in there (oops hehehe) and yet one author copying ANOTHER would likely copy the scene split and that is what we have. We have fiction, man. You are trying to salvage it but it doesn't work. No one would retell a story and it just HAPPEN to match a scene split like that.
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@TruthSurge Very good point. But the intercalation is different. Mark is: Jesus questioned; Peter denies; Jesus is questioned. While John is: Jesus led to Caiaphus; Peter denies; Jesus questioned; Peter Denies a 2nd &3rd time; Jesus questioned continually by Pilate. Also, the redactor of John (there is a decent amount of people who believe there was) who added chapter 21 could have redacted this specific intercalation to insure the juxtaposition between chp. 18 and chp. 21 Peter.
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@perichoresis7 i got to do a LOT of stuff off YT but go research this... in mark Jesus is going to be questioned, yes? then the scene cuts away to Peter then the scene cuts BACK to Jesus. That's a literary technique, not someone retelling a story as it would have been told. Mark knows too much. He is an omniscient narrator. NOW, John's version does the same! Those scene cuts are there in John and ONLY by copying mark's WRITTEN version would that be the case.
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@TruthSurge Okay. That's more like it. :) I really am excited to see how though, because the John and Mark connection has never been presented to me as more than just a theory.
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@perichoresis7 I use prove as if to say convince you. I can't prove it 100% but i'd like to think 99.9%. :)
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@TruthSurge haha Really? "Prove" is a strong word. But consider it jotted. :)
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@perichoresis7 I can prove you wrong on this point. :) But jot that down for later if you want. "John" relied on the WRITTEN version of Mark and I can prove it.
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@TruthSurge You are correct. There is a minority opinion that Mark and John may be connected in light of a few similarities. But I am of the opinion (as we all can only speculate on this specific issue) that the author(s) of John simply had read Mark and were aware of it, but in no way used it as a "direct" source or framework (similar to how I use the word "therefore" too much because of all of the "heady" reading I've done. That does not mean I am using those books as a source).
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@perichoresis7 Sure. The synoptics are clearly related but John is quite a bit different YET, you may not know or agree, John actually has ties to the written gospel of Mark as well. This shows that we don't have 4 guys writing recollections. We have 4 authors writing from previous works with SOME oral tradition in there. I can't explain it all in 500 characters but you'll seemore of it in that series I keep pimping. hehe
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@TruthSurge Exactly. An author is much more likely to expand, rather than condense. But I would say that John also deserves at least equal attention because of its great difference in perspective on how it approaches/interprets Jesus' life.
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"for the record, Mark, is traditionally written by Mark the evangelist... He was not an eyewitness either"
Correct, but Mark is closely aligned with Peter, and the gospel is usually seen as being from Peter's viewpoint. Peter and Mark were obviously very close, Peter describing Mark like his son. Mark is a Hellenistic gospel, written primarily for an audience of Greek-speaking residents of the Roman Empire. Jewish traditions are explained, clearly for the benefit of non-Jews.
ShaundalynChic 3 years ago 4
"that was in north africa,"
Well that is a minority view. That it was written from Rome seems a much better supported idea. It uses latinized words that were in use in Rome. First Petter 5:13 seems to indicate that Mark was in Rome. It has been argued that there is an impending sense of persecution in the Gospel, and this supports a writing in Rome, as Nero was persecuting there in ways not seen in Africa.
ShaundalynChic 3 years ago 3