the kalam cosmologial argument william lane craig (part 1/2)

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• kalam
• cosmologial
• argument
• william
• lane
• craig

[lxAgnosticxl]

@friendofthefunk

Enough quote mining. They are different events does the chandelier hold up itself? , then there different events. The chandelier is being held up , whats holding it up is doing so at the same time. If the screw cised to exist the chandelier would fall so it being held up is an effect & there a text book example of simultaneous causation

[friendofthefunk]

@lxAgnosticxl Enough whining about being "quote mined." You said "the chandelier is being held up at the same time it is up" as if those are two different events. That's silly. The chandelier "being up" is the result of the electrician screwing it to the ceiling. Something remaining the same is isn't an event. That would be like saying the event of my window remaining unbroken is being caused by the simultaneous event of no one throwing a baseball through it.

[lxAgnosticxl]

@friendofthefunk

I said whats holding up the chandelier is happening at the same time it is up. LEARN TO STOP QUOTE MINING

[lxAgnosticxl]

@friendofthefunk

The siling is holding up the chandelier, its pulling on it.

[friendofthefunk]

@lxAgnosticxl LOL read what you just wrote. You're saying the chandelier being held up is caused by the chandelier being held up.

[lxAgnosticxl]

@friendofthefunk

Yes it is and it's always the examlpe givin in text books & by philosophers.

The chandelier is being held up (cause) at the same time it is up (effect). get it?

[friendofthefunk]

@lxAgnosticxl YOU need to make clear the distinction between "physical time" and "time" if you think it's important to your argument. I say use whatever term you want, but if there were no events before the universe existed then 1) there could be no sentient being before the universe existed, because sentience is a logical process and therefore a series of events, and 2) there could be no event causing the universe because it would have to precede the universe's existence.

[friendofthefunk]

@lxAgnosticxl A chandelier being held up by the ceiling isn't simultaneous causation. What is the causal event and was is the resulting event in that example? The chandelier is where it is because at some point in the finite past, it was screwed to the ceiling. So sigh all you want, but it doesn't make simultaneous causation any more cogent.

[lxAgnosticxl]

@friendofthefunk

*SIGH* simultaneous causation is a real thing, like a chandelier held up by the siling.

I wasn't saying timeless time , You need to make the distinction between physical time & time itself, God did Create the universe. Even if we were to accept your argument which i don't but even if we were its not a problem.

[friendofthefunk]

@lxAgnosticxl You're repeating yourself but not explaining anything. Also, you keep making up your own rules. Where are you getting your information about "simultaneous cause and effect" and "mental events?"

Answer the question: did God exist before the universe was created or not?