Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith, remembered the day this way: "The plates were secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home." After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. lie was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running" (History of Joseph Smith by His Mother, Lucy Smith, pp.107-108).
http://www.mrm.org/topics/book-mormon/how-heavy-were-those-gold-plates
Some Mormons object, "The military run miles, with a heavier weight." But they forget that backpacks distribute the weight. Practice what you preach, guys, and make a YouTube video that demonstrates running miles with 50lbs of condensed weight tucked under your arm! So far every Mormon who has committed to this challenge has reneged once they try it themselves.
Remember, this whole discussion is predicated upon apologists denying that the plates were really gold (in the normal sense) and instead arguing that it was a copper alloy with very little gold in it to begin with. Otherwise you have Smith running with plates that are over 200lbs. Before apologists have trimmed down the weight by assuming a copper alloy, but even they didn't get as ridiculously low as 40-60lbs, as some LDS apologists now maintain. John A. Widtsoe and Franklin S. Harris, Jr., wrote in Seven Claims of the Book of Mormon, p. 37:
Quote:
"The plates upon which the Book of Mormon was engraved were made of gold and have been described as being about six inches wide by eight inches long by six inches thick. A cube of solid gold of that size, if the gold were pure, would weigh two hundred pounds, which would be a heavy weight for a man to carry, even though he were of the athletic type of Joseph Smith. This has been urged as an evidence against the truth of the Book of Mormon, since it is known that on several occasions the Prophet carried the plates in his arms. It is very unlikely, however, that the plates were made of pure gold. They would have been too soft and in danger of destruction by distortion.For the purpose of record keeping, plates made of gold mixed with a certain amount of copper would be better, for such plates would be firmer, more durable and generally more suitable for the work in hand. If the plates were made of eight karat gold, which is gold frequently used in present-day jewelry, and allowing a 10 percent space between the leaves, the total weight of the plates would not be above one hundred and seventeen pounds--a weight EASILY CARRIED by a man as strong as was Joseph Smith."
That is absurd. Really, try it yourselves. Or find a BYU football player who was Smith's age to try it.
And even with such an alloy (tumbaga), given the 1) seer-stone translation method gathered from primary evidence (which was really dictation, not translation in the normal sense) 2) the verboseness of the English text (an absurdity given the conciseness of a conceivable language such as Reformed Egyptian) 3) the length of the text + 116 pages plus the larger portion that was sealed 4) the inability of an Egyptian based language to communicate lots of specific meaning in very few characters... is it extremely unlikely that the whole Book of Mormon + 116 pages could fit on the unsealed portion of the alleged Tumbaga plates in the dimensions provided, especially in a manner that would take the weight down to 40-60lbs.
I'm still waiting for a replica that can be examined and weighed by the public. They made a replica at the LDS Museum in SLC but they haven't released the weight that it came out to.
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If it did in fact happen, and God did want his work to move forward, and He did want Joseph Smith to translate the gold plates- don't you think he would have helped him just a little? After all if God does exist, he is capable of it.
lbflooring 2 months ago
@CounterCultureLives who cares about the limp? geesh I've hiked 15 miles with a sprained ankle. I think a little adrenaline counters any little limp he might have had in the incident in question. It was reportedly a VERY minor limp, not some exaggerated hitch like Igor or Walter Brennan.......
vendingdudes 4 months ago
@CounterCultureLives well, this is kind of interesting....youtube.com/watch?v=vaN2acVMGC8
maybe some chariot riders went on a joy ride real fast on top of the water and just didn't make it all the way across
vendingdudes 4 months ago
@vendingdudes I wonder why BYU doesn't have a Golden Plates Track Meet. Just have their biggest, strongest football players or their fastest track stars run 3 miles with a set of plates weighing 40-60 lbs., while fending off 3 attackers. Or, perhaps they can just mosey on for 3 miles, and fend off attackers. Oh, by the way; they'll also have to run with a LIMP!! If the plates weren't "gold", and they were concealed in a linen frock, then why would 3 attackers be so interested in getting them??
CounterCultureLives 4 months ago
@vendingdudes Any "reasonable" person who has studied The Bible from the perspectives of objective scrutiny or critical analysis knows that there is no evidence of an epic flood, no evidence of any "parting of the Red Sea", no evidence of an "exodus", no evidence of a talking donkey, and no credible evidence to support the fables in BoM.
There IS evidence of a MIGRATION, but not the "flight' as told in The Bible. You're comparing one book's fables to another.
CounterCultureLives 4 months ago
@vendingdudes In addition, I would also like to point out that any reasonable Christian who believes in the Bible should consider this: If you believe in a God of Miracles who can part the Red Sea, and who can tell Noah how to build an Ark, who can still the sun for Joshua and who can lay down His life to take it back up again can surely either give a young man super strength to carry heavy plates, or for that matter actually make the plates lighter or "weightless". It IS possible....
vendingdudes 5 months ago
Even in his mother's comments provided above, she does not claim that Joseph ran for three miles. It could be accurately stated that he only ran in short bursts to flee any of the attackers, who would have been slowed, and subsequently discouraged, by Joseph's counterattacks. The eight witnesses claim a weight of about 40-60 pounds for the plates. It is not unreasonable to think that farmer type men who worked hard in the outdoors all their lives would be ok at estimating weights by "hefting"
vendingdudes 5 months ago
The only problem with this is that this assumes there is no god. If you come into this assuming there is no god then of course it doesnt make sense, similarly you'd have to write off Moses because no human being could physically part the red sea. If you assume there is no god not only could you write off the story of the Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon but you could also write off the Bible and every other story of faith.
luk08005 5 months ago
He had to juggle the sword of Laban that was also in the stone box and the Liahona while running from his attackers. Later he was translating with his head in a hat without the gold plates. $^$&(?
kramd1 6 months ago
@mollymu1 The really big rectangle at the bottom of your finger talk board is a space bar. Try using it or the other people that are from some place may not understand you.
karizma8175 6 months ago