Did Jesus Rise from the Dead - Qureshi vs. Abdallah - 01 - Opening Statements

Opening Statements
Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?
Nabeel Qureshi vs. Osama Abdallah
June 22nd, 2009
Romulus, MI

Category:

Nonprofits & Activism

Tags:

• Acts
• 17
• Apologetics
• Nabeel
• Qureshi
• David
• Wood
• Osama
• Abdallah
• Did
• Jesus
• Rise
• from
• the
• Dead
• debate

[joshj15]

one of the most one-sided debates I think i'll ever see

[ADAJ3]

Nebeel Q. wins easily

[AnsweringChristians1]

The Gospel writers just made up these predictions and put them into the mouth of Jesus. Because int the Gospel of Q-- the Q documents never mention anything about Jesus so called death or resurrection. This was Paul's Gospel which beat out the disciples Gospel (whatever it may have been) and Paul's concept of a visionary or spiritual resurrection slowly became a phyiscal one with the Gospel writers--- but the fact remains the Gospels aren't history they are myth.

[AnsweringChristians1]

As for the other New Testament documents like the Gospels, Acts, the other epistles, Revelation-- simple, they are not reliable. The fact is we don't know who wrote them, where they wrote them, who their sources were or whether their sources were reliable or not. Thus these New Testament documents aren't reliable. As for Jesus so called "Passion Predictions" they are historically questionable because if Jesus really made these claims why were the disciples surprised when he appeared to them?

[AnsweringChristians1]

For evidence of this see “The Post-Mortem Vindication of Jesus in the Sayings Gospel Q” by Daniel Smith.

[AnsweringChristians1]

So the earliest Christians, including the disciples were preaching something much different from what Paul was preaching about Jesus. Paul and his followers preached a Jesus who was resurrected given a new spiritual body—while the disciples and the other followers of Jesus were preaching Jesus assumption or disappearance into heaven.

[AnsweringChristians1]

Paul later on comes, starts having Demonic hallunications (See 2 Corinthians) and passes it off as visions and starts to talk about Jesus death and resurrection for some reason. It’s possible he was influenced by Greco Roman Paganism (but I am not sure about this). However Paul is talking about Jesus death as some kind of Old Testament prophecy and his resurrection in very visionary and spiritual terms.

[AnsweringChristians1]

what I suspect happened is something like this: Jesus survived his crucifixion, was buried in a tomb, and later was later assumpted into heaven (much like the Old Testament figures like Elijah and Enoch) from the tomb (by a miracle from Allah) and then in a vision or dream appeared to one or more of his Disciples, convincing them he had ascended to heaven. After that the disciples were preaching the worship of one God and the assumption of Jesus into heaven.

[AnsweringChristians1]

In any case Christians CANNOT prove the following: That Jesus died, That the disciples believed he died and resurrected and all of them died for that belief, that what Paul is saying about the alleged death and resurrection is true and that the Gospels and the rest of the writings of the New Testament are reliable when it comes to Jesus. There is simply NO way Christians can prove any of this. All the Christians can prove is the New Testament is early but there is no evidence that it is reliable

[AnsweringChristians1]

“The Post-Mortem Vindication of Jesus in the Sayings Gospel Q” by Daniel Smith. This is a recent book that has come out and it is based on his phd thesis in which he argues for an assumption as being the more earlier form of proclamation in the preachings of the early Christians and not a ressurection. He has also surmarised another German scholar’s arguments, a la Zeller, who’s work has not been translated into English but who also argues for an assumption from the Empty tomb.

[AnsweringChristians1]

As for the Gospels-- simple, they are not reliable. Yes, they are early but that doesn't mean they are realiable. For the unreliability of the New Testament Gospels see the works of Bart Ehrman especially his newest book "Forged" and "Jesus Interrupted" and "Lost Christianities".

[AnsweringChristians1]

It was Paul and his followers which came up with the so called "resurrection" of Jesus however they were preaching the "resurrection" in very visionary terms. Also Paul believed that Jesus was ressurected given a new spiritual body and that spiritual resurrection slowly evolved into a phyiscal resurrection as time went on.