Bach - Art of the Fugue - Contrapunctus IX

The 'Kunst der Fuge' is Bach's testimony to the various types of counterpoint and canon, written at the end of his life (unfinished).
Contrapunctus IX is a 4-voice 'double fugue at double counterpoint at the twelfth'. 'Double' in the sense that one tune is added to the main tune, 'counterpoint at the twelfth' indicating that the new tune can be placed a twelfth (octave and fifth) either below or above the main theme.

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[mtv565]

Art of Fugue, Unfinished Fugue's ending:

i1105 . photobucket . com / albums / h352 / artoffugueend / artoffugue_ending . jpg

[TheNolb]

Fughetta!!!!!! This is so beautiful.

[hopelesslyinlovedu]

tempo is a little bit awkward for to me, but this is nice

[wcbroccoli]

My dates regarding the Mass in B-minor and other works are not presumptions. They are based on documentary evidence.

Surely you've seen copies of the well-known title wrapper of the same Mass (and letter) delivered to the Saxon Elector in 1733?

[wcbroccoli]

First you claim that I'm (supposedly) "merely restating what others such as Leonhardt have given to the world several decades back."

Then you claim I'm presuming dates.

You can't have it both ways.

[wcbroccoli]

I agree that your 3 points are "Utter self-serving crap."

Why I should confine myself to your topics? I'm free to expand the discussion.

You yourself restated what others have said, so why do you criticize me for (supposedly) doing the same?

I haven't dated anything "to the late 1830s." The pre-eminent modern Bach scholar, Christopher Wollf, observed that the (lost) composing copy must date back at least the 1742 (the date of the earliest extant fair copy) and probably to the late 1730s.

[mutinyvizier]

"if you can date the earliest fragments of Art of Fugue to the late 1830's" - sic , meant 1730's

[mutinyvizier]

More red herrings with your opinions on "prevailing views" and CPE Bach. It appears if you had your way, you would summon each of Bach's 16 surviving children, along with Anna Magdalena, to testify to how JSB originally "saw" his music, and intended for it to be interpreted. I don't deny that would be the most accurate way to do it.

If you wish to strike every trill and mordent from the upper note, and regurgitate what is taught in introductory harmony classes at universities, I won't stop you.

[mutinyvizier]

Utter self-serving crap:

1) You should confine yourself to comments on my topics when you address your comments to me specifically as riposte.

2) Thank you, you are merely restating what others such as Leonhardt have given to the world several decades back.

3) Surely, if you can date the earliest fragments of Art of Fugue to the late 1830's, I too can presume and impute similar dubious historicity to the Mass and other works. What's good for the goose ought to be good for the gander.

[wcbroccoli]

How can you say the "Mass in B min (1725-49)" was probably "conceived after the earliest working copy of Art of Fugue"?

The earliest working copy of the "Missa" (so-called in the dedicatory title wrapper submitted to Saxon Elector) dates from 1733, about a decade before the "earliest working copy of Art of Fugue".

You obviously meant the final version of the Missa, but even so, you can't assume the final version was not conceived years before its completion.