Gudo Nishijima Roshi on Koans and Enlightenment

Gudo Nishijima Roshi translator of Dogen's Shobogenzo talks about Zen koans and their relationship to Enlightenment.

Category:

Education

Tags:

• zen
• buddhism
• buddha
• hardcore zen
• brad warner

[Amirmourad]

It is clear that he has been deeply conditioned by the Buddhist teachings, falling into the same trap as all organized religions have. The purpose of the koan is not to demonstrate Buddhist philosophy. It is to transcend all philosophy, and to transcend even mental processes themselves. Meditating upon the koan, the intellect becomes exhausted. A kind of "short circuit" occurs where mind is by passed and one enters into no-mind. A koan is a symbol of that which beyond words, the inexpressible.

[doubtboy]

Where did you read this?

[Amirmourad]

I have not read it.

[doubtboy]

Bull shit.

[JackNuttsack]

@doubtboy how zen

[hceggeberth]

@AxiomaticInfinity

Yes indeed. The Rinzai and Soto Zen approaches to koans are very different. FWIW, I think it's a shame that the Rinzai view has, for historical reasons, become adopted and accepted by many as THE DEFINITION of what koans are and what they're for. It leads to inflexible positions being taken up. Not usually a good thing! (Gudo/Dogen's 'Soto' Zen also insists that reality transcends all philosophy.)

Hey - you're 20 years old! Kids can have insight? Who knew! (JK ;))

[hceggeberth]

I first read about koans in the 60s in the books of (Rinzai Zen) DT suzuki.It was made clear to me that koans are mysterious riddles which point to reality as it is, beyond conceptual thought;under the guidance of a Zen master I might come to truly understand. It made perfect sense (the irony!). 40 years later, having encountered a teacher with a different (Dogen's) perspective, I have a different view.

To be clear: GUDO DOES NOT TEACH THAT REALITY CAN BE GRASPED INTELLECTUALLY. Not at all.

[hceggeberth]

Hi Menarson,

It's easy to hear and dismiss words like "philosophy " and "system" - particularly if you are a zennie. To truly understand what Gudo is talking about, you have to investigate what HE means by those terms and how he uses them. We human beings think. We parse the world in different ways; from different philosophical perspectives, or views. But, says Gudo, REALITY (includes but) transcends views.Please don't assume he "doesn't understand" from this briefest of clips.

[Menarson]

The Koan doesn't explain any system. It's there to point to the reality before it is touched by any thought. This man doesn't understand, few people do.

[creationofself]

@doubtboy Bull shit? LOL I think they are saying the same thing. If not, the cute old guy is incorrect because Amirmourad has given a well worded acurate discription of the truth about koans. woah nelly ! scooting me butt across the floor. a monkey peed in me mouth

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

Dialectic (also called dialectics or the dialectical method) is a method of argument, which has been central to both Eastern and Western philosophy since ancient times. The word "dialectic" originates in Ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato's Socratic dialogues. Dialectic is rooted in the ordinary practice of a dialogue between two people who hold different ideas and wish to persuade each other

[Amirmourad]

I will read it.

[Amirmourad]

"why you don't need listen to any other views - you know it all already"

Koans are a technology. Like any technology, it can be used in a million and one different ways. And their function can also be interpreted in a million and one different ways because of this. All interpretation is one-sided. And that is why philosophy exists - it is an interpretation. If koans are intended to demonstrate philosophy, then they are intending at the same time to bring you into one-sidedness.

[hceggeberth]

You were talking about Gudo's use of the term "philosophy", and how the zen koan was anything but "philosophy", so I referred you to a piece which may have clarified what he meant by "philosophy"; what it included and what it didn't. I don't think that's "another subject".

Anyway...