Have You Ever Read Romans 9? (James White) [5of5]

James White provides a thorough exegesis of Romans 9.


http://www.aomin.org

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Education

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• droakley1689
• james
• white
• romans
• calvinism
• arminianism
• arminian

[FaithandReasons]

God be praised for this sermon about His majestic Sovereignty!

[michaeleyeofthetiger]

greetings! God wants to reveal his power and wrath! It is WRITTEN in the BIBLE!!!!!!! AMEN!

[TruthAndDiscovery]

Just a little background to help u answer my question.

This is a debated topic in the Calvinist circle. Calvinism affirms election to heaven, but not necessarily election to Hell. There are two views:

1. Single Predestination -- All of mankind is going to Hell because of there sins, so God chose to save some from Destruction.

2. Double Predestination -- Through God's plan He has chosen some to paradise and others He has chosen for destruction

[TruthAndDiscovery]

Good message, I agree. I have one question about it though. If God prepared some as vessels of wrath, that means he repaired some for hell. That means some have been chosen for hell. Isn't that double predestination?

[itsnolongeri]

thanx laneCH for so many great vids, God bless ya:)

[LaneCh]

I agree with you entirely.

[hlpsg]

i guess there is no point going back and forth. unless one comes at this with a desire to ask, what is the Scripture saying, rather than asking, how can Scripture support my beliefs, there is no end to this.

[LaneCh]

What are nations made of? Individuals. So when it says that "not all Israel is Israel" it means not all individuals calling themselves Israel is part of the larger group called Israel. Later in the same chapter, Paul says, "Who are you, oh *man*..." If he was speaking of nations, why didn't he say, "Who are you, oh nation..?"

[hlpsg]

The actual verse says "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel." He is saying not all peoples descended from Israel (Jacob) belong to the nation of Israel. Some have intermarried with other nations and formed other nations. How can it refer to individuals, can individuals belong to the person of Israel, to Jacob, who have long since been dead? How do they "belong" to him?

[LaneCh]

If Paul is writing to nations, why does he say that not all Israel is Israel. Translated, do you hold that he's saying not all nations are nations?

[hlpsg]

Rom 9:17. God had given Pharoah chance after chance with many plagues, yet Pharoah remained unrepentant. For his killing of Israelite babies, he rightly deserved judgement, yet God suffered his evil and strengthened his resolve to defy God in the last plague in order to show His glory and power throughout the nations by their destruction in the Red Sea. Rom 9:18 - God has mercy on those that don't deserve it, but his hardening is on those who had already decided to sin and defy.

[hlpsg]

Rom 9:15. Context? Exo 33:19. God says he will show mercy and grace to Moses and show Moses His back, His glory. He chose to do this out of His own will, to show mercy and grace (to Moses) to whomever he chose, not that Moses deserved any of it or earned it in any way. Paul's similar argument continues in ver 16. Nobody earns the grace and mercy of God. Not even Israel, for God's choosing them, they were not more righteous than their neighbours or deserved any better, that was Paul's point.