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Name:
Shaun
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I focus on the Abrahamic God because I am more familiar with this God.
Why the Adam and Eve explanation given for the stupid designs is flawed. For info on stupid designs watch my featured video Stupid Design. Muslims don't believe in original sin and this argument is not necessarily about original sin. Original sin is still compatible with this argument, for Christians and Jews. I focus on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Eden, so it will apply to all Abrahamic Faiths. The next five paragraphs are part of this argument.
According to the Bible, Torah and Quran, God created Adam and Eve not to know the differences between Good and Evil. In other words they didn't know right from wrong. Those who say, "God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit because they would surely die, "God also gave Adam and Eve freewill to obey him or not, and they choose not to by eating the forbidden fruit. I respond by telling them, the problem with that is Adam and Eve didn't know of death nor comprehend the metaphor God used when he told them they would die. The metaphor meaning gaining knowledge of good and evil, thus bringing evil and sin into the world. This resulted in the regression of earths design i.e. stupid designs. Believers believe God punished Adam and Eve by kicking them out of the Garden of Eden, to live in a world full of stupid designs, which is the explanation given for stupid designs, cont.
How could God have given Adam and Eve a choice when they didn't understand either choice? Remember they didn't understand good and evil. Did God not have better options to give them freewill? For example, God could have either forgiven Adam and Eve after they ate the forbidden, instead of punishing all of Humanity/Animals with stupid designs or created them with the knowledge of good and evil from the start. Either way God could have given them true freewill to decide for them self's if they wanted to follow God or not. If they decide to follow God, God could erase their knowledge of good and evil from their memory, this would be part of the choice Adam and Eve could have made, like the choice Believers make by following their God knowing when they go to Heaven their knowledge of good and evil will be erased. Those obviously aren't the options God choose in the Holy books, cont.
A common counter argument to the above, "A child is playing around with an electrical outlet by sticking things into it and doesn't understand the dangers of the outlet. "The Parents tell their Child not to play with the electrical outlet by explaining to them the dangers of the outlet. "The Child doesn't understand what being shocked and electrocuted are. The Child doesn't obey their parent's wishes, to end up being electrocuted. "Are the parents at fault their child disobeyed them? My response is as thus, those parents should have Child proofed their house. Responsible Parents child proof their house to prevent their Children from unintentionally killing or seriously hurting them self's and others. Why risk their Children's life and others? Why didn't God use the precautions responsible Parents take and Child proof or in this case Adam, and Eve proof the Garden of Eden? So Adam and Eve wouldn't unknowingly cause the fall? Remember Adam and Eve were Adults designed to have Childlike innocence, cont.
"What about Satan? Satan did lie to Eve when he told her eating the forbidden fruit wouldn't result in death i.e. cause the fall. This still doesn't answer my objections, cont.
My conclusion, the story of Adam, Eve and the Fall of Man doesn't make sense because it's a contradictory myth created by ancient people trying to understand how life came to be, and to reconcile their belief in a benevolent, perfect and forgiving God with Stupid Designs. This still fails to do so. A God who has the attributes of benevolence, perfection and forgiveness cannot be reconciled with Stupid Design/the Fall of Man. The attributes of their God contradict with each other because of it. The Adam and Eve story also contradicts with itself. If the fall happened God must suffer from a split personality disorder. One of God's personalities is benevolence, incompetence and irresponsibility if he meant well when he designed Adam and Eve not to know the differences between Good and Evil, for not Adam and Eve proofing the Garden of Eden and not able to come up with better options to give them free will. His other personality is an evil and unforgiving for cursing all of humanity/animals with stupid designs when God could've forgiven Adam and Eve instead, this God hardly sounds loving and forgiving. Would you curse all the future descendants of someone who did you wrong for something that happened before their descendants were even born and are obviously innocent, and had nothing to do with what their ancestor did? Good thing the fall probably didn't happen and this God hopefully doesn't exist?
Why the Adam and Eve explanation given for the stupid designs is flawed. For info on stupid designs watch my featured video Stupid Design. Muslims don't believe in original sin and this argument is not necessarily about original sin. Original sin is still compatible with this argument, for Christians and Jews. I focus on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Eden, so it will apply to all Abrahamic Faiths. The next five paragraphs are part of this argument.
According to the Bible, Torah and Quran, God created Adam and Eve not to know the differences between Good and Evil. In other words they didn't know right from wrong. Those who say, "God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit because they would surely die, "God also gave Adam and Eve freewill to obey him or not, and they choose not to by eating the forbidden fruit. I respond by telling them, the problem with that is Adam and Eve didn't know of death nor comprehend the metaphor God used when he told them they would die. The metaphor meaning gaining knowledge of good and evil, thus bringing evil and sin into the world. This resulted in the regression of earths design i.e. stupid designs. Believers believe God punished Adam and Eve by kicking them out of the Garden of Eden, to live in a world full of stupid designs, which is the explanation given for stupid designs, cont.
How could God have given Adam and Eve a choice when they didn't understand either choice? Remember they didn't understand good and evil. Did God not have better options to give them freewill? For example, God could have either forgiven Adam and Eve after they ate the forbidden, instead of punishing all of Humanity/Animals with stupid designs or created them with the knowledge of good and evil from the start. Either way God could have given them true freewill to decide for them self's if they wanted to follow God or not. If they decide to follow God, God could erase their knowledge of good and evil from their memory, this would be part of the choice Adam and Eve could have made, like the choice Believers make by following their God knowing when they go to Heaven their knowledge of good and evil will be erased. Those obviously aren't the options God choose in the Holy books, cont.
A common counter argument to the above, "A child is playing around with an electrical outlet by sticking things into it and doesn't understand the dangers of the outlet. "The Parents tell their Child not to play with the electrical outlet by explaining to them the dangers of the outlet. "The Child doesn't understand what being shocked and electrocuted are. The Child doesn't obey their parent's wishes, to end up being electrocuted. "Are the parents at fault their child disobeyed them? My response is as thus, those parents should have Child proofed their house. Responsible Parents child proof their house to prevent their Children from unintentionally killing or seriously hurting them self's and others. Why risk their Children's life and others? Why didn't God use the precautions responsible Parents take and Child proof or in this case Adam, and Eve proof the Garden of Eden? So Adam and Eve wouldn't unknowingly cause the fall? Remember Adam and Eve were Adults designed to have Childlike innocence, cont.
"What about Satan? Satan did lie to Eve when he told her eating the forbidden fruit wouldn't result in death i.e. cause the fall. This still doesn't answer my objections, cont.
My conclusion, the story of Adam, Eve and the Fall of Man doesn't make sense because it's a contradictory myth created by ancient people trying to understand how life came to be, and to reconcile their belief in a benevolent, perfect and forgiving God with Stupid Designs. This still fails to do so. A God who has the attributes of benevolence, perfection and forgiveness cannot be reconciled with Stupid Design/the Fall of Man. The attributes of their God contradict with each other because of it. The Adam and Eve story also contradicts with itself. If the fall happened God must suffer from a split personality disorder. One of God's personalities is benevolence, incompetence and irresponsibility if he meant well when he designed Adam and Eve not to know the differences between Good and Evil, for not Adam and Eve proofing the Garden of Eden and not able to come up with better options to give them free will. His other personality is an evil and unforgiving for cursing all of humanity/animals with stupid designs when God could've forgiven Adam and Eve instead, this God hardly sounds loving and forgiving. Would you curse all the future descendants of someone who did you wrong for something that happened before their descendants were even born and are obviously innocent, and had nothing to do with what their ancestor did? Good thing the fall probably didn't happen and this God hopefully doesn't exist?
About Me:
God is quite evil in the Bible and in the Quran for condoning, slavery, incest, genocide, sexism, homophobia and etc. For the next argument I will assume he is benevolent because people who believe in the God Yahweh think he is.
If the natural world is designed is it incompetently or malevolently designed, if designed at all? The next two paragraphs bellows are part of the same argument.
Watch my featured video stupid design to understand the following. I wouldn't intently create things to hurt or kill people and I doubt you would to? A person with good intentions who constantly creates things with dangerous design flaws which can kill or hurt people is obviously an incompetent designer and should stop creating things while ahead. If this person keeps on creating things incompetently knowing people will be in danger because of it or this person is able to design their inventions without those dangerous designs flaws and still creates things with them, is an evil person for intently creating things to endanger people. So which is God? If the God Yahweh does exist he would have the ability and could have designed the natural world without stupid designs. Since the God in question is supposed to be benevolent would have done just that otherwise wouldn't be benevolent. When I look at the world around me I don't see any evidence that such God exits. The characteristic of the God Yahweh are contradictory, cont.
For example, If God is Benevolent and designed the Natural World to the best of his ability, and still couldn't design the Natural World without stupid designs. This would mean God is not All Powerful and Perfect, for having limitation in his engineering and creative ability, for not being able to better design the natural world. If God is All Powerful and could have designed the Natural World differently i.e. without stupid designs, makes God evil for intently designing the natural world the way it is aka full of stupid designs. Either way Theistic God's probably don't exist, for having contradictory attributes. If God's do exist are more likely to be Deistic than Theistic because Deistic God's are compatible with stupid designs. Reason being Deistic God's are not personal and could care less about us that is if Deistic God's exists? There is no way to know for sure if Deistic God's do or don't exist because they're not falsifiable. If you are a Theist and think I am wrong, than please correct me by providing Evidence for Theism.
Different argument
The argument bellow is for Christians, Jews and yes Muslims, who believe in the fall, and an All Knowing, All Powerful, Benevolent God. This applies to Muslims for the same reason as the first argument. This argument does not apply to Christian Open Theist because Open Theist believes God chooses not to know the future.
Many Christians and Jews believe the fall is the reson why there are so many problems, and suffering in the world. So why did God create the Tree of knowledge of Good an Evil knowing the outcome. If God is All Knowing can't also be Benevolent because both qualities contradict with each other. God is ether Loving and Incompetent or All Knowing and Evil. If the Tree was a test doesn't make sense because why would an All Knowing God have to test people? An All Knowing God already knows the choices people will make before they make them so why test them? Think about this analogy and imagine you are both Psychic, and an Inventor. You saw in psychic visions future inventions of yours being misused by a couple of people who caused the same problems attributed to the fall like Stupid Designs; watch the Stupid Design video for more info. If you are the only person who could stop this would you (A) prevent this scenario by not inventing that future invention stopping the disastrous future in your vision? or would you (B) still invent the invention knowingly & letting the devastating future happen?, you would probable pick (A), Gods wonderful creation of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil is exactly like scenario (B).
I have different argument at my other MrPostsTough on the reasons why I am skeptical the natural world was created by a Creator. http://www.youtube.com/user...
Country:
Canada
Occupation:
Illuminati
Interests:
Future World Dictator
Books:
Why Darwin Matters by Michael Shermer. American Fascists by Chris Hedges. Physics of the Impossible by Michio Kaku. Only a Theory by Ken Miller. The Royal Observatory Greenwich Guide to Astronomy by John Gribbin. The Singularity is Near by Ray Kurzweil. Death by Black Hole and Other Cosmic Quandaries by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin, From Atoms to Infinity by Mary and John Gibbin, Urgrade Me by Brian Clegg, Univrse a Journey from earth to the edges of space by Nicolas Cheetham. Blackwater by Jeremy Scahill. Universe The Definitive Visual Quide. How Humans Evolved fourth edition by Robert Boyed and Joan Bisilk. Evolution the story of life by Dough Palmer & Peter Barrett. Ocean the worlds last Wildlife Reveled by the American Musem of Natural History. Before the Big Bang, by Brian Clegg. Misquoting Jesus by Bart D. Ehrman, Grand Design by Stephan Hawkings & Leonard Mlodinow. The Rise and fall of the second largest Empire in History of How Genghis Khans Mongols almost conquered the world by Thomas J Craughwell. Michio Kaku Physics of the Future. I have also read Religious Apologetics books & I don't want to advertise their nonsence so I won't..
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Channel Comments
1.Adam/Eve,Knowledge:They knew right from wrong as in 2+2=4(RIGHT),and 2+2 =7(WRONG),
Good & Evil is a different variation on differential mechanisms.
2.Tree:If he had created with le knwoledge,they would have been Mortal(Immortal to the extant that they would have lived as long a the Universe)
3.Freewill...Im just going to direct to my second boxed person who is a Physicist who deals with Neurology(Freewill etc)
4.Following God?-Well you can bring a horse to water but...
5.Precautions is actually a good one,but it inevitably leads to Fascism,would you like someone to smack you around if you looked at porn?
they would have grown up,and un-childproofedsaid house in order to experience the Shock of life"Curiosity kills more than just cats";-)
6.Perfection...By YOUR definition;-)
7.Satan is a title,not a name(btw the mere fact you use the title dictates you concede to said Angel having freewill;-))
8.NOTE:If Adam/Eve had not Sinned,none of us would exist,Evil is contingent on good in order to exist,Fractally speaking the Order out of Chaos applys here,more to the point,Life is what defines you,the idea is you can mold yourself as you want to be for all of eternity after you Biorobotic form breaks down or if you will "So they lost their legs in a bomb,god will just give em new ones in Heaven" Sardonic,yes,but true.
and you cannot be sure .."probably?."
Neil Tyson is an imbecile. What he's talking about in this feature of yours isn't even relevant! 2 main types of evidence, Direct and indirect (inductive/circumstantial) and three prerequisites for their admissibility, 1. Relevance 2. Materiality 3. Competence. He doesn't get paid unless you supplies you with useless information, that's why they say, "It's all academic". In your world you worship academia, the law is only concerned with the truth, in it's SIMPLEST form. If he tried presenting this in court he'd be put in jail for contempt.
Have a great day.