A very enjoyable video. Regarding the filioque, I have to side with the Orthodox on that. It was an innovation. :)
Another horrid example from church history is the extermination of the Nestorians. People were killed because they disagreed about the degree of separation between the divine and human natures of Christ.
Also, to be charitable, perhaps it is true to say given the enormous ignorance of anyone (even scholars) in the Middle Ages, it would be more rational to believe in a god under those circumstances? Not only did they not have the technology to explain natural phenomena, they didn't even have the framework with which they could hope to establish such phenomena (or the intellectual framework to support science as we know it today).
I never understood the trinity thing, how anything could be absolutely three and absolutely one at the same time. I was told that no one did and it was proof of the glory of God etc. The fact that something which no one around me has ever claimed to understand ("it just is, just believe") was the cause of that schism blows my mind.
@golddiggingants You are not alone; all the great thinkers including Augustine tied themselves in knots trying to explain it. In the end it was an idea imposed and anyone who thought differently was labelled a heretic.
Even Sir Isaac Newton could not accept the idea of the Trinity and he believed in some weird stuff. A book I would recommend that details how the Trinity came into being as far as the RC church is concerned is AD381 by Charles Freeman. Nothing to do with religion and more to do with keeping the Roman Empire intact.
"Is it possible to think of one as three, or of three as one? If you think of three as one, can you think of one as none, or of none as one? When you think of three as one, what do you do with the other two? You must not “confound the persons”—they must be kept separate. When you think of one as three, how do you get the other two? You must not “divide the substance.” Is it possible to write greater contradictions than these?" -- Col. Robert G. Ingersoll
@urbanelf I try to get through most of the important P & Fs, with the occasional bit of the organ concerti if the congregation stay long enough to enjoy such things!
when mob rules, the meak are trampled...law that protects the individual, enable all to be free...this is off topic, but so what, its still related, and most people seem to not realize it
If the Holy Spirit didn't proceed from the Father and the Son, in that order, then God doesn't reflect the natural hierarchy designed into Creation. If God doesn't reflect that hierarchy, then the hierarchy doesn't reflect God, hence the questioning of authority and the breakdown of civilization that ensues. The claim that the Persons of the Trinity are co-equals doesn't jive with the notion of Procession, though, does it?
@MikeOfKorea Your guess is as good as mine, Mike: you have the advantage of theological training. To me it's all a load of neo-Platonic metaphysical crap.
It's a shame that the only venues (for the most part) to perform on an actual organ are churches and colleges. Boo. I very much appreciate you continuing you to do so in light of the religiosity entailed:) Rock some Toccata and Fugue for the godless next service:p
I 'LOLed' @ 6:01 - Your 'New Joysey' accent when saying 'personal saviour!
BTW, I don't know why I'm mentioning this, but we are reading Homer's Iliad and Plaoto's Symposium next week at Uni. I am still waiting for the postman to deliver these from Amazon (where I bought them for the princely sum of 1p). Am I in for a good read?
@neil73 Yes - well noticed : I caught it from some YT evangelist, no doubt! Homer's Iliad is the oldest book from Europe and pre-dates most of the Old Testament. The Symposium is just a joy, although Women do not feature nearly as much as they should in a book about Love. Women in the Iliad are truly noble and tragic in the best sense.
@tenneral The Iliyad came through the post this morning, and I will begin reading it as soon as I finish my other reading requirements necessary for my course.
Doing an English degree is certainly a lot of fun!
well, there are three quarks making up normal baryonic matter so in a way christianity is right ;-p i'm not sure if european post-1500's modernity would be possible without christian holy men's unshakable faith in reason... anyway.
Great video as always. I've always found it rather interesting the way Religious intellectuals try to reason out the dogma they hold to... interesting and somewhat sad, since the very thing they are arguing for flies against the very intellect they are using to form their arguments.
You know, sometimes I wish I was in the UK. I'd love to be able to talk to (well, mostly listen to) you on these subjects. And it would be great for my son. At least I can show him the videos when he's older.
Isn't there a famous diagram somewhere trying to describe how the Holy Trinity works, with lots of arrows pointing in various directions.
I didn't understand how it worked when I was 7, and i dont understand it now.
ps, drove through your town of Marlborough last week tenneral, looked absolutly breathtaking with the colour of the autumn leaves, had Bach's Brandenburg concerto playing on the cd player, life doesn't get any better than that.
My favourite theological word from christianity - perichoresis and a word that I first heard coined at a Quaker conference perichoreography.
Thoush I do have an image of three late 19th century ladies in diaphanous gowns dancing around each other gracefully.
I tend to side with the greeks on this as their theology of the trinity was first and the latin church was a little late and handicapped in this debate.
Nice and pleasant video. I'm glad I watched it. I learned some things about theology and St, Thomas Aquinas, which saves me reading that rubbish myself.
The Dominican order still exists? What happened to the Jesuits? Do they still exist?
@dewinthemorning Oh, yes. Both very definitely still exist today. According to Wikipedia, the Jesuits are today the largest order of the Roman Catholic Church.
That shouldn't even be all that surprising; they've been dominant in the church for 5+ centuries.
@cmxcmx I just read in a documentary book that at the end of the 17th century there was hatred towards the Jesuits and their order started being closed down in different cities and countries.
I've always thought Aquinas blasé myself
niriop 1 year ago
I really like you. Your videos are both entertaining and very insightful. I can not say enough. Thanks and keep doing what your doing. :)
Much love and respect. Scout663
scout663 1 year ago
A very enjoyable video. Regarding the filioque, I have to side with the Orthodox on that. It was an innovation. :)
Another horrid example from church history is the extermination of the Nestorians. People were killed because they disagreed about the degree of separation between the divine and human natures of Christ.
violentlygraceful 1 year ago
Also, to be charitable, perhaps it is true to say given the enormous ignorance of anyone (even scholars) in the Middle Ages, it would be more rational to believe in a god under those circumstances? Not only did they not have the technology to explain natural phenomena, they didn't even have the framework with which they could hope to establish such phenomena (or the intellectual framework to support science as we know it today).
golddiggingants 1 year ago
@golddiggingants Establish such technology to explain such phenomena, rather. Oops.
golddiggingants 1 year ago
I never understood the trinity thing, how anything could be absolutely three and absolutely one at the same time. I was told that no one did and it was proof of the glory of God etc. The fact that something which no one around me has ever claimed to understand ("it just is, just believe") was the cause of that schism blows my mind.
golddiggingants 1 year ago
@golddiggingants You are not alone; all the great thinkers including Augustine tied themselves in knots trying to explain it. In the end it was an idea imposed and anyone who thought differently was labelled a heretic.
Tridhos 1 year ago
Hey Ten. Great video. I'm currently reading the Dr of Hippo. St Augustine. Specifically the "City of god" and his works on "Genesis".
Was planning on moving to St Tom after I'm done with St Aug.
Danmill23 1 year ago
Even Sir Isaac Newton could not accept the idea of the Trinity and he believed in some weird stuff. A book I would recommend that details how the Trinity came into being as far as the RC church is concerned is AD381 by Charles Freeman. Nothing to do with religion and more to do with keeping the Roman Empire intact.
Tridhos 1 year ago
@Tridhos Many thanks for this : I will look for this enlightening book.
tenneral 1 year ago
"Is it possible to think of one as three, or of three as one? If you think of three as one, can you think of one as none, or of none as one? When you think of three as one, what do you do with the other two? You must not “confound the persons”—they must be kept separate. When you think of one as three, how do you get the other two? You must not “divide the substance.” Is it possible to write greater contradictions than these?" -- Col. Robert G. Ingersoll
juliuschas 1 year ago 2
@juliuschas Yes.
Christians think of none as one, that one as three, and that three as one, now only if they'd think of that one as none.
adolthitler 1 year ago
@juliuschas great quote
zodiakranch 1 year ago
What Bach did you play?
urbanelf 1 year ago
@urbanelf I try to get through most of the important P & Fs, with the occasional bit of the organ concerti if the congregation stay long enough to enjoy such things!
tenneral 1 year ago
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urbanelf 1 year ago
Comment removed
urbanelf 1 year ago
when mob rules, the meak are trampled...law that protects the individual, enable all to be free...this is off topic, but so what, its still related, and most people seem to not realize it
longfootbuddy 1 year ago
If the Holy Spirit didn't proceed from the Father and the Son, in that order, then God doesn't reflect the natural hierarchy designed into Creation. If God doesn't reflect that hierarchy, then the hierarchy doesn't reflect God, hence the questioning of authority and the breakdown of civilization that ensues. The claim that the Persons of the Trinity are co-equals doesn't jive with the notion of Procession, though, does it?
MikeOfKorea 1 year ago
@MikeOfKorea Your guess is as good as mine, Mike: you have the advantage of theological training. To me it's all a load of neo-Platonic metaphysical crap.
tenneral 1 year ago 4
Nice plagal cadence at the end:)
deathbytech 1 year ago
Yeah, We're all GOD! Yeah, that's it! All three of us are God! We're the ummm holy trinity! Yeah, that's it! The holy trinity! yeah.
prodigyat9 1 year ago
It's a shame that the only venues (for the most part) to perform on an actual organ are churches and colleges. Boo. I very much appreciate you continuing you to do so in light of the religiosity entailed:) Rock some Toccata and Fugue for the godless next service:p
deathbytech 1 year ago
I 'LOLed' @ 6:01 - Your 'New Joysey' accent when saying 'personal saviour!
BTW, I don't know why I'm mentioning this, but we are reading Homer's Iliad and Plaoto's Symposium next week at Uni. I am still waiting for the postman to deliver these from Amazon (where I bought them for the princely sum of 1p). Am I in for a good read?
neil73 1 year ago
@neil73 Yes - well noticed : I caught it from some YT evangelist, no doubt! Homer's Iliad is the oldest book from Europe and pre-dates most of the Old Testament. The Symposium is just a joy, although Women do not feature nearly as much as they should in a book about Love. Women in the Iliad are truly noble and tragic in the best sense.
tenneral 1 year ago
@tenneral The Iliyad came through the post this morning, and I will begin reading it as soon as I finish my other reading requirements necessary for my course.
Doing an English degree is certainly a lot of fun!
neil73 1 year ago
If I recall, Thomas Aquinas taught that women were the result of a defective sperm or a damp wind that was blowing at the time of conception.
I find it mind-boggling that anyone could take that guy seriously.
Ryedo40 1 year ago 2
@Ryedo40 Yes, indeed. You don't have to look far to discover complete lunacy in the most exalted theological brain.
tenneral 1 year ago
enlightening as usual....
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
well, there are three quarks making up normal baryonic matter so in a way christianity is right ;-p i'm not sure if european post-1500's modernity would be possible without christian holy men's unshakable faith in reason... anyway.
jogayot 1 year ago
Excellent video...
apeek7 1 year ago
Many of my discussions seem to always come back to the authority of Aquinas. Thanks for more ammunition!
CoLegacy 1 year ago
Great video as always. I've always found it rather interesting the way Religious intellectuals try to reason out the dogma they hold to... interesting and somewhat sad, since the very thing they are arguing for flies against the very intellect they are using to form their arguments.
You know, sometimes I wish I was in the UK. I'd love to be able to talk to (well, mostly listen to) you on these subjects. And it would be great for my son. At least I can show him the videos when he's older.
Swordsage 1 year ago
Isn't there a famous diagram somewhere trying to describe how the Holy Trinity works, with lots of arrows pointing in various directions.
I didn't understand how it worked when I was 7, and i dont understand it now.
ps, drove through your town of Marlborough last week tenneral, looked absolutly breathtaking with the colour of the autumn leaves, had Bach's Brandenburg concerto playing on the cd player, life doesn't get any better than that.
bonnie43uk 1 year ago
@bonnie43uk You are most welcome. You can see why I enjoy living here.
tenneral 1 year ago
My favourite theological word from christianity - perichoresis and a word that I first heard coined at a Quaker conference perichoreography.
Thoush I do have an image of three late 19th century ladies in diaphanous gowns dancing around each other gracefully.
I tend to side with the greeks on this as their theology of the trinity was first and the latin church was a little late and handicapped in this debate.
johncrwarner 1 year ago
Do they know the church that a nonbeliever is playing the organ?
RottenRroses 1 year ago
@RottenRroses I think suspicions are forming but, being English, they are too polite to comment!
tenneral 1 year ago
It seems like god has a personality disorder...
He claims to be one entity yet is three entities also.. Though I'm only 17 so I might be a little confused.. haha.
I think I'll stick to my science, thank goodness for atheistic views.
KillermaTV 1 year ago
Nice and pleasant video. I'm glad I watched it. I learned some things about theology and St, Thomas Aquinas, which saves me reading that rubbish myself.
The Dominican order still exists? What happened to the Jesuits? Do they still exist?
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
@dewinthemorning Oh, yes. Both very definitely still exist today. According to Wikipedia, the Jesuits are today the largest order of the Roman Catholic Church.
That shouldn't even be all that surprising; they've been dominant in the church for 5+ centuries.
cmxcmx 1 year ago
@cmxcmx I just read in a documentary book that at the end of the 17th century there was hatred towards the Jesuits and their order started being closed down in different cities and countries.
dewinthemorning 1 year ago
i went to my local church to play the organ, when i was an altar boy *rimshot*
Neeboopsh 1 year ago