The people of this state who lose our right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that’s who. That is just not right.
“Public schools ARE teaching young children that two men being intimate are just the same as a husband and wife, even when it comes to raising kids.” All ready started in LA Calf..
Hollowed doesn't get a vote, WE DO stop buying votes!
Hollywood's gay agenda has paid for the swing vote in NY! Bloomberg gave Senator Alesi the max campaign donation allowed — a hefty $10,300 to vote outside his party and James Alesi needs to be recalled now for his actions. He did not represent his voters correctly!
@glh156 - No, it's just that fairness and equality eventually won out over bigotry and discrimination. So what don't you like about the fact that NY finally has marriage equality? How does it hurt YOU now that the gay couple down the street finally have equal legal protections? How would it help YOU to deny equal rights and equal legal protections to others? And don't point to your religious beliefs - they have NOTHING to do with equal civil marriage rights. True christians understand this.
Lots of misguided comments here about 'how many people approve / disapprove of equal marriage rights'. It doesn't matter WHAT percentage approves. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR MINORITIES SHOULD NEVER BE PUT TO MAJORITY VOTE. That's why we have a Constitution and three branches of government. To protect the rights of the individual and the minority from the tyranny of the majority!
It's good that most Americans favor equal marriage rights now, but it will be better when the courts assure equality for all.
Well, now we know he wasn't acting. Congrats to the Senator on doing the right thing in the end. It's hard to admit you were wrong, especially when you're a public figure. WTG, Alesi and WTG NY on passing marriage equality!
Funny you mention California. Support for abortion rights there has grown from 50% two decades ago to 66%. Support for gay marriage has grown from 38% in 2000 to 48% in 2009. The reason is the same for both social issues: generational replacement.
It was not 50% two decades ago; California has always been left leaning and had a large majority in favor of abortion. And you can't compare the 2000 and 2008 votes on marriage because they had different wording, did different things, and were voted on in different elections. I would guess that support was higher than 38% in 2000, but lower than 48% in 2008. Its a matter of who votes.
Only one senator spoke for the "no" side. They know how this is going to look to history. They know how this will look in 5 years
If they felt strongly opposed, if they felt that voter opposition was an overwhelming and permanent majority, believe, me, they would have spoken and spoken and spoken. They know what history will say and THEY don't want to be the ones with their names and faces attached.
A no vote was expedient, but shameful and they knew it
Having lived near or in his district for many, many years, I don't believe the district is more than 55-45 one way or the other on the issue. His calls ran strongly against equality. Advocates foolishly counted on him to follow his conscience, while opponents wisely targeted him, in part because of his place in the alphabet.
If I were an opponent I might be tempted to oppose him for fear he might follow his conscience in the future.
That is an excellent point that a lot of people are waking up to. As a state representative, he is obligated to represent the people and his personal opinion needs to stay out of it. He was obviously considering voting his personal opinion which could make him a target in the future for the people he represents.
He is also charged with protecting every member of his district--not just the majority. The people with less of a voice have to be protected. Ultimately, had he voted with the Democrats, he could have lost elections in the future, but ultimately, history would have remembered him as a leader, not a coward.
I'm a voter in the Senator's district and he was wrong if he thought voting no would keep his seat safe. Demographics in Penfield and Perinton have been changing dramatically since Alesi first took office and the social liberals in his district have been hoping to get a fair minded state senator since he voted against the employment non-discrimination act in 2002.
Alesi should and will lose re-election next year. I know a lot of people in his district who will work and contribute for that.
I think that Pittsford is more liberal now but Fairport and nearby communities are certainly more conservative. Even if they are liberal, that does not mean that they support gay marriage. California and Maine dumped same-sex marriage and they are very liberal states.
If Alesi does lose re-election it won't be because of this, primarily for the reason that most people really don't care about this issue, whether they support it or not.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Marriage by definition, is between a man and a woman. You can have civil unions if you want, but a union of same sex individuals will NEVER EVER be a marriage.
YOUR marriage may be between a man and a woman, but you have no right to tell someone else what theirs should be. BTW recheck your dictionary because I'm pretty sure Merriam-Webster changed their definition this year.
I don't understand why you all are making such nasty comments about Senator Alesi. First of all, he never pledged to support the bill, and was always undecided. People just assumed this meant he would support it. Secondly, his constituency in suburban Rochester is relatively conservative and his job is to represent them.
This is a difficult issue for a lot of people, and In the end, he did what he and most people believed to be right. There is nothing wrong with that.
First of all, what is the message he is sending to the LGBT people in his constituency? You know he has to have them in consideration too, right? He didnt protect those gay and lesbians in his district and thats shameful.
Second, most of the people in NY state support marriage equiality according to recent polls. He knows he did the wrong thing but he put his career as a republican first than those gay/lesbian constituents. Shame on him.
I advocate for marriage equality, but your reasoning condemns the represented, not the representative.
Alesi is not a state senator, he's a district senator. The entirety of New York is not his constituency, but rather Perinton--a conservative district who elected a Republican representative. This isn't him towing the party line, nor is it him, personally, condemning gay marriage. Rather, he is upholding the fundamentals of the democratic process by reflecting in his vote the majority will.
I think you dont get my point. You're forgetting about the gay constituency he also represents, not only the conservative sub. Rochester. Those conservative people would have had no impact in their life, but he could have made a big difference in the lives of they gays/lesbians he supposedly represents. Shame on him.
If he was struggling to make that vote, he knew he had to choose between the right thing (a yes vote) or his conservative/republican constituency votes. Guess which one he chose.
As a representative, he did the right thing--and it was obviously morally taxing on him personally. However, the message being sent to the LGBT community in Perinton is by their peers and neighbors, not their representative.
You seriously believe he did the right thing as a representative? So telling those gay/lesbian people he represents "go fuck yourself" is the right thing, huh? I think thats the message he sent to the gay community from his district that he "represents."
I do believe he did the right thing as a REPRESENTATIVE. However, as a moral human being, I think he did the wrong thing, and it's clear he does as well.
I see where you are coming from: he represents a mainly conservative district. But my point is he also represents gay/lesbians of his district. And Im explaining you how politics work sometimes: he chose to vote along party lines and secure the vote of the majorit of his consituency instead of doing the right thing. Isnt that how politics work most of the time?
Regardless, shame on this guy. He knew he did the wrong thing. Otherwise he wouldnt have struggled for his vote.
No, I understand your point entirely--but that's not how democratic politics work, nor how they're meant to work. You're writing your own ideology into the democratic system, and while I agree with your arguments (as I said, I am pro-Gay Marriage), they're largely irrelevant because the issue at hand is majority will, not the morality of gay marriage.
@shro0my0: how so? if their votes were truly representative of the "people" their vote would have come closer to 50/50, and not an overwhelming defeat as we saw yesterday.
No, most New Yorkers do not support gay marriage. Polls say different things right now but they always underscore opposition. Polling in California and Maine showed clear majorities supporting it, but we all know how that turned out. I am from Massachusetts, and even here most are not in favor. That's just the reality.
Representatives have a responsibility to vote in accordance with their constituents will. That is what he did. Criticize the people of his district for their opinons, not him.
Recent polls have showed majority supporting same sex marriage in NY state, which has been steady:
maristpoll . marist . edu / 122-same-sex-marriage-in-new-york-state /
Also,I live in MA until a few months ago and gay marriage there is very well accepted. They've been living with it for 5+ years and the sky didnt fall down as the religious fundamentalist cried about.
This senator in this video struggled between whats right and his votes. He obviously chose the votes.
Polls always say that, and they are always wrong when a vote is actually taken on the matter. Other polls show a tie or a majority opposed.
No most people in MA do not support it; even a ton of young people don't and the state's huge Catholic population tilts it against.
I disagree, I think that there have been some serious consequences in our state because of gay marriage there. But I guess it depends on your personal opinion.
What's "right" in your opinion is not right to everyone.
Well polls are just there to give some idea of the situation and not a true picture of it.
Wrong bud. Vast majority of people in MA support same sex marriage these days. Again, 5+ years with it and nothing has happened. What are those "serious" consequences directly related to gay marriage? Let me answer that for you: none.
No, they absolutely do not. I know very few people that support it. I guess we won't know until its put up for a vote, which will happen eventually since its relatively easy to pass an amendment and put it on the ballot here...it just takes 25% of legislative approval and we almost had it last time. If you live in Cambridge, then sure, a majority support it, but that isn't the whole state.
And I am referring to the loss of parental rights and the oppression of religious institutions.
Well obviously you had 5 years to put that to vote but none is insterested to do that (besides the religious fundamentalists) and even so Im positive it wouldnt pass. Plust it has to be ratified by at least 25% of the legislature in two consecutive times, if Im not mistaken.
There was no loss of parental rights and "oppression" of religious institutions. I suggest you do your research a bit better and you'll realize gay marriage has brought nothing but positive things to MA.
If you knew anything about the Parker case or the situation surrounding the closure of Catholic Family Services, you probably wouldn't make the same statements. You just choose to ignore them because you don't want to believe it.
Plenty of people are interested in doing that. Polls consistently show that most voters in MA want it on the ballot. Its the politicians who are ignoring us, but legislatures change and ours won't stay 90% democratic forever.
Im very much aware of the Parker case. They are the only ones who complained in that school, and even the other parents stated those Parkers are crazy.
Catholic Charities was accepting money from the state governent and if they do that they have to follow state law, which prohibits sexual discrimination. Catholic Ch. couldnt keep discriminating against gay people without the state money so they decided to close. You can discriminate all you want without using public money.
The "people" you refer to are the christo-facist fundamentalist who want yet another state to follow archaic religious rules. Even if its put to the ballot, it would fail miserably. Again, gay marriage has been legal in MA for 5+ years and nothing bad happened. In fact, MA ranks very high in divorce rates, so it is more than clear that same sex marriage had no negative impact on anyone in MA, as denounced by faith-based organizations.
That is entirely your opinion...but since I am not particularly religious and oppose gay marriage, I don't know where it comes from.
I know scores of people in MA who feel the same as me. Branding anyone who disagrees as a "facist" will not help you win if it indeed ever does make it to the ballot. Those bullying tactics failed in California and Maine, and now in New York as well. My opposition is based in biology and common sense, not religion.
Well it is interesting that you oppose something and you have no idea where that comes from.
You may know a few people in MA that are opposed to gay marriage for no real reason, but reality shows that gay marriage isnt the devil many preach it is and it brought many positive things to society.
Bullying tactics? Where? Religious organizations who try to impose their biblical views onto society incur in fascist behavior. If you dont believe me do your own research on Fascism.
I know all about the Parker case and was using that as one example out of many. My point with CC was that they were previously allowed to do something that they now cannot. I was adopted through them, and they do a great service. The state bullied them into closing by threatening to pull funds, and they obviously cannot afford it themselves.
I know your opinion, but I am 20 years old and know plenty of people in my generation who do not support gay marriage. It won't be legal in MA forever.
Your Parker case is not a good example to support your point, since the Parkers and the Whirtlins have an agenda and ties with the Mormons.
Yes, CC was able to discriminate against gay people using public money. Now, based on anti-discrimination laws, they cant do that using state money. If you want to do that use your own money.
Younger generations support gay rights by 65%. Every poll and voting pattern shows that. You are just part of the 25%, thats all.
65+25 does not equal 100...and I don't know what polls you are talking about, but even in CA, exit polling showed around 40% of 18-29 year old supporting prop 8. People grow more conservative as they age, and that will likely hold true for this issue.
When I said I didn't know where it comes from, I was responding to your comment about how people are opposed for religious reasons, which is oftentimes not the case.
All I can say is that you won't change your opinion, but neither will we.
Where do you get people grow more conservative as they grow? That's definitely not true. Also, the only age group that supported prop 8 was 65+ with 67%. The rest opposed it. Also, there are other important factors on the voting pattern that make a big difference, but its clear we have the young-er votes.
I suggest you stop making statements if you "dont know where it comes from."
I hope you change your views and maybe you will. For now, you are in the wrong side of history. Your choice.
Uh that's common sense? Its a well known fact in political science that younger people are more liberal, and grow more conservative with age.
Actually, every age group voted in favor of prop. 8 EXCEPT for 18-29 year olds, who were 60% against. I don't know where you get your data but those are the facts.
They may grow more conservative fiscally or in political party, but someone who is for civil rights now is hard to say he/she will not be for it in the future.
Actually you are wrong once more. The only age group that voted 50+ percent for prop 8 was the age 65 or older. I got my info from the report of Patrick Egan (NYU) and Kenneth Sherrill (Hunter College-CUNY). Here's the link for you (no paces):
thetaskforce . org / downloads/... / egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09 . pdf
Bzzzzzt, worng answer. The polls show 62% of Massachussets voters oppose any efforts to overturn gay marriage in the state. Massachussets and Vermont are the most amenable states to gay marriage.
Haha uhh...that "survey" is done by a gay rights organization and I have seen it before. Try finding unbiased sources. Fortunately I know my neighbors, and I know that they are sick of this crap. One day we will overturn it.
Oh I'm not doubting that at all. Central Massachusetts isn't the whole state and of course I have no idea where you're from. That reminds of WA State, where the "liberals" from the Seattle metro area control the state's politics because of its huge population, while the rest of the state complains about that and talks about "seceding" and form its own state with Northern Idaho. And this is the last time I'll reply to you.
All of Massachusetts is heavily democratic; we are not Washington state. Worcester county has a very large population, but you're right, you don't know about any of that or much of anything, as is evidenced by your postings.
I know your county leans heavily democratic, you bunny. This has liitle to do with party identification and more to do with perceptions of homosexuality (choice/born with) and levels of religiosity. it's completely irrelevant that 60% of your "neighbors" voe for Obama and other Dems. Period.
The survey wasnt "done" by a gay organization. You couldnt be more stupid. READ IT first before talking out of your as.
Fortunately everyone knows better than you in MA and they are not bigoted as you and "your neighbors" are. Gay marriage is there to stay in MA. Get used to it.
To complement what kokas223 has already taught you:
"By a margin of 2-to-1, Massachusetts voters agree that allowing same-sex couples to wed is better for society overall. Voters believe that marriage is an important part of a strong and healthy society, so its good for society that equal marriage rights allow more people to get married."
Lake Research Partners
lakeresearch . com / news / - "LRP Salutes 5th Anniversary of MA Marriage Equality"
Senator Alesi is said to be supporting the bill: "I probably will be making a public statement somewhere in the near future," said Sen. James S. Alesi, a Monroe County Republican who represents part of Rochester. Insiders say he is one potential vote for the bill."
Alessi signed his own fate with his voters. He's shown that he's merely a party puppet, especially after he pledged support for this bill. He's a coward and a follower, not a leader.
Coward senator. You will be in the same place in history as the KKK and all those who opposed equality if you dont change your position. Shame on you!
How does it hurt YOU?
The people of this state who lose our right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that’s who. That is just not right.
“Public schools ARE teaching young children that two men being intimate are just the same as a husband and wife, even when it comes to raising kids.” All ready started in LA Calf..
Hollowed doesn't get a vote, WE DO stop buying votes!
glh156 4 months ago
Hollywood's gay agenda has paid for the swing vote in NY! Bloomberg gave Senator Alesi the max campaign donation allowed — a hefty $10,300 to vote outside his party and James Alesi needs to be recalled now for his actions. He did not represent his voters correctly!
glh156 4 months ago
@glh156 - No, it's just that fairness and equality eventually won out over bigotry and discrimination. So what don't you like about the fact that NY finally has marriage equality? How does it hurt YOU now that the gay couple down the street finally have equal legal protections? How would it help YOU to deny equal rights and equal legal protections to others? And don't point to your religious beliefs - they have NOTHING to do with equal civil marriage rights. True christians understand this.
TheDavep2 4 months ago
Lots of misguided comments here about 'how many people approve / disapprove of equal marriage rights'. It doesn't matter WHAT percentage approves. EQUAL RIGHTS FOR MINORITIES SHOULD NEVER BE PUT TO MAJORITY VOTE. That's why we have a Constitution and three branches of government. To protect the rights of the individual and the minority from the tyranny of the majority!
It's good that most Americans favor equal marriage rights now, but it will be better when the courts assure equality for all.
TheDavep2 4 months ago
Very bad move approving gay marriage boo!
glh156 7 months ago
@glh156 Oh crawl back to your bigot cave idiot.
fitasafiddle123 4 months ago
Senator, you redeemed yourself this week. Thank you.
JesseBHolmes 8 months ago 3
Thank you Senator! I'm not gay, but still, great job! :)
emblemew1 8 months ago 7
Well, now we know he wasn't acting. Congrats to the Senator on doing the right thing in the end. It's hard to admit you were wrong, especially when you're a public figure. WTG, Alesi and WTG NY on passing marriage equality!
PierreMcDuck 8 months ago 6
You're forgiven Senator!
mhoffmann8757 8 months ago 15
He was the first Republican Senator in NY to support the 2011 bill. Time to cut him some slack.
mccaul29 8 months ago 7
passing a kidney stone?
ktxlld 9 months ago
Painful, wasn't it, Jim??
joealesi 1 year ago
Funny you mention California. Support for abortion rights there has grown from 50% two decades ago to 66%. Support for gay marriage has grown from 38% in 2000 to 48% in 2009. The reason is the same for both social issues: generational replacement.
kokas223 2 years ago
It was not 50% two decades ago; California has always been left leaning and had a large majority in favor of abortion. And you can't compare the 2000 and 2008 votes on marriage because they had different wording, did different things, and were voted on in different elections. I would guess that support was higher than 38% in 2000, but lower than 48% in 2008. Its a matter of who votes.
stevefm8 2 years ago
This just in: New Jersey gay marriage vote cancelled. Apparently, the sponsors know that it will fail. Again. Because it is wrong.
clownface2 2 years ago
He looks afraid to show his face.
Only one senator spoke for the "no" side. They know how this is going to look to history. They know how this will look in 5 years
If they felt strongly opposed, if they felt that voter opposition was an overwhelming and permanent majority, believe, me, they would have spoken and spoken and spoken. They know what history will say and THEY don't want to be the ones with their names and faces attached.
A no vote was expedient, but shameful and they knew it
filmstocker 2 years ago 2
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rivieraturbo 2 years ago
What a coward.
missamerica1974 2 years ago
Having lived near or in his district for many, many years, I don't believe the district is more than 55-45 one way or the other on the issue. His calls ran strongly against equality. Advocates foolishly counted on him to follow his conscience, while opponents wisely targeted him, in part because of his place in the alphabet.
If I were an opponent I might be tempted to oppose him for fear he might follow his conscience in the future.
snakevenom6 2 years ago 2
That is an excellent point that a lot of people are waking up to. As a state representative, he is obligated to represent the people and his personal opinion needs to stay out of it. He was obviously considering voting his personal opinion which could make him a target in the future for the people he represents.
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
He is also charged with protecting every member of his district--not just the majority. The people with less of a voice have to be protected. Ultimately, had he voted with the Democrats, he could have lost elections in the future, but ultimately, history would have remembered him as a leader, not a coward.
mattmager 2 years ago 2
I'm a voter in the Senator's district and he was wrong if he thought voting no would keep his seat safe. Demographics in Penfield and Perinton have been changing dramatically since Alesi first took office and the social liberals in his district have been hoping to get a fair minded state senator since he voted against the employment non-discrimination act in 2002.
Alesi should and will lose re-election next year. I know a lot of people in his district who will work and contribute for that.
mjd0210 2 years ago
I think that Pittsford is more liberal now but Fairport and nearby communities are certainly more conservative. Even if they are liberal, that does not mean that they support gay marriage. California and Maine dumped same-sex marriage and they are very liberal states.
If Alesi does lose re-election it won't be because of this, primarily for the reason that most people really don't care about this issue, whether they support it or not.
stevefm8 2 years ago
NY pwned Gays. lol
l1nuxun1l 2 years ago
i think he was asleep
imaboygenius 2 years ago
coward is right
GreenFiles 2 years ago
Coward
tenunda 2 years ago
The face of a man who knows he's about to do something disgraceful that will haunt him in years to come.
People will watch this footage 50 years from now and shake their heads at him. Discrimination always catches up with you in the end.
hiseminencegris 2 years ago 13
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JesseBHolmes 8 months ago
Oh the "agony" of bad acting. No wonder he's in politics.
hardbruiser 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Marriage by definition, is between a man and a woman. You can have civil unions if you want, but a union of same sex individuals will NEVER EVER be a marriage.
clownface2 2 years ago
YOUR marriage may be between a man and a woman, but you have no right to tell someone else what theirs should be. BTW recheck your dictionary because I'm pretty sure Merriam-Webster changed their definition this year.
redbull816 2 years ago
What a novel idea! Separate but equal. Genius!
1bwash 2 years ago 3
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losavery 2 years ago
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losavery 2 years ago
Coward. Bigot.
There is no reasonable argument against marriage equality.
His defeat next election will be well-deserved.
brianepetty 2 years ago
...How would he be defeated when most people in his district agree with his vote?
stevefm8 2 years ago
I don't understand why you all are making such nasty comments about Senator Alesi. First of all, he never pledged to support the bill, and was always undecided. People just assumed this meant he would support it. Secondly, his constituency in suburban Rochester is relatively conservative and his job is to represent them.
This is a difficult issue for a lot of people, and In the end, he did what he and most people believed to be right. There is nothing wrong with that.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Stevefm8,
First of all, what is the message he is sending to the LGBT people in his constituency? You know he has to have them in consideration too, right? He didnt protect those gay and lesbians in his district and thats shameful.
Second, most of the people in NY state support marriage equiality according to recent polls. He knows he did the wrong thing but he put his career as a republican first than those gay/lesbian constituents. Shame on him.
ch5342 2 years ago
I advocate for marriage equality, but your reasoning condemns the represented, not the representative.
Alesi is not a state senator, he's a district senator. The entirety of New York is not his constituency, but rather Perinton--a conservative district who elected a Republican representative. This isn't him towing the party line, nor is it him, personally, condemning gay marriage. Rather, he is upholding the fundamentals of the democratic process by reflecting in his vote the majority will.
shro0my0 2 years ago
I think you dont get my point. You're forgetting about the gay constituency he also represents, not only the conservative sub. Rochester. Those conservative people would have had no impact in their life, but he could have made a big difference in the lives of they gays/lesbians he supposedly represents. Shame on him.
If he was struggling to make that vote, he knew he had to choose between the right thing (a yes vote) or his conservative/republican constituency votes. Guess which one he chose.
ch5342 2 years ago
As a representative, he did the right thing--and it was obviously morally taxing on him personally. However, the message being sent to the LGBT community in Perinton is by their peers and neighbors, not their representative.
shro0my0 2 years ago
You seriously believe he did the right thing as a representative? So telling those gay/lesbian people he represents "go fuck yourself" is the right thing, huh? I think thats the message he sent to the gay community from his district that he "represents."
ch5342 2 years ago
I do believe he did the right thing as a REPRESENTATIVE. However, as a moral human being, I think he did the wrong thing, and it's clear he does as well.
shro0my0 2 years ago 2
I see where you are coming from: he represents a mainly conservative district. But my point is he also represents gay/lesbians of his district. And Im explaining you how politics work sometimes: he chose to vote along party lines and secure the vote of the majorit of his consituency instead of doing the right thing. Isnt that how politics work most of the time?
Regardless, shame on this guy. He knew he did the wrong thing. Otherwise he wouldnt have struggled for his vote.
ch5342 2 years ago
Comment removed
stevefm8 2 years ago
No, I understand your point entirely--but that's not how democratic politics work, nor how they're meant to work. You're writing your own ideology into the democratic system, and while I agree with your arguments (as I said, I am pro-Gay Marriage), they're largely irrelevant because the issue at hand is majority will, not the morality of gay marriage.
shro0my0 2 years ago
@shro0my0: how so? if their votes were truly representative of the "people" their vote would have come closer to 50/50, and not an overwhelming defeat as we saw yesterday.
lastand09 2 years ago
Comment removed
stevefm8 2 years ago
No, most New Yorkers do not support gay marriage. Polls say different things right now but they always underscore opposition. Polling in California and Maine showed clear majorities supporting it, but we all know how that turned out. I am from Massachusetts, and even here most are not in favor. That's just the reality.
Representatives have a responsibility to vote in accordance with their constituents will. That is what he did. Criticize the people of his district for their opinons, not him.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Stevefm8,
Recent polls have showed majority supporting same sex marriage in NY state, which has been steady:
maristpoll . marist . edu / 122-same-sex-marriage-in-new-york-state /
Also,I live in MA until a few months ago and gay marriage there is very well accepted. They've been living with it for 5+ years and the sky didnt fall down as the religious fundamentalist cried about.
This senator in this video struggled between whats right and his votes. He obviously chose the votes.
ch5342 2 years ago 2
Polls always say that, and they are always wrong when a vote is actually taken on the matter. Other polls show a tie or a majority opposed.
No most people in MA do not support it; even a ton of young people don't and the state's huge Catholic population tilts it against.
I disagree, I think that there have been some serious consequences in our state because of gay marriage there. But I guess it depends on your personal opinion.
What's "right" in your opinion is not right to everyone.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Well polls are just there to give some idea of the situation and not a true picture of it.
Wrong bud. Vast majority of people in MA support same sex marriage these days. Again, 5+ years with it and nothing has happened. What are those "serious" consequences directly related to gay marriage? Let me answer that for you: none.
ch5342 2 years ago
No, they absolutely do not. I know very few people that support it. I guess we won't know until its put up for a vote, which will happen eventually since its relatively easy to pass an amendment and put it on the ballot here...it just takes 25% of legislative approval and we almost had it last time. If you live in Cambridge, then sure, a majority support it, but that isn't the whole state.
And I am referring to the loss of parental rights and the oppression of religious institutions.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Well obviously you had 5 years to put that to vote but none is insterested to do that (besides the religious fundamentalists) and even so Im positive it wouldnt pass. Plust it has to be ratified by at least 25% of the legislature in two consecutive times, if Im not mistaken.
There was no loss of parental rights and "oppression" of religious institutions. I suggest you do your research a bit better and you'll realize gay marriage has brought nothing but positive things to MA.
ch5342 2 years ago
If you knew anything about the Parker case or the situation surrounding the closure of Catholic Family Services, you probably wouldn't make the same statements. You just choose to ignore them because you don't want to believe it.
Plenty of people are interested in doing that. Polls consistently show that most voters in MA want it on the ballot. Its the politicians who are ignoring us, but legislatures change and ours won't stay 90% democratic forever.
stevefm8 2 years ago
@stevefm8
Im very much aware of the Parker case. They are the only ones who complained in that school, and even the other parents stated those Parkers are crazy.
Catholic Charities was accepting money from the state governent and if they do that they have to follow state law, which prohibits sexual discrimination. Catholic Ch. couldnt keep discriminating against gay people without the state money so they decided to close. You can discriminate all you want without using public money.
ch5342 2 years ago
@stevefm8
The "people" you refer to are the christo-facist fundamentalist who want yet another state to follow archaic religious rules. Even if its put to the ballot, it would fail miserably. Again, gay marriage has been legal in MA for 5+ years and nothing bad happened. In fact, MA ranks very high in divorce rates, so it is more than clear that same sex marriage had no negative impact on anyone in MA, as denounced by faith-based organizations.
ch5342 2 years ago
That is entirely your opinion...but since I am not particularly religious and oppose gay marriage, I don't know where it comes from.
I know scores of people in MA who feel the same as me. Branding anyone who disagrees as a "facist" will not help you win if it indeed ever does make it to the ballot. Those bullying tactics failed in California and Maine, and now in New York as well. My opposition is based in biology and common sense, not religion.
stevefm8 2 years ago
@stevefm8
Well it is interesting that you oppose something and you have no idea where that comes from.
You may know a few people in MA that are opposed to gay marriage for no real reason, but reality shows that gay marriage isnt the devil many preach it is and it brought many positive things to society.
Bullying tactics? Where? Religious organizations who try to impose their biblical views onto society incur in fascist behavior. If you dont believe me do your own research on Fascism.
ch5342 2 years ago
@stevefm8
Also, I suggest you read these about the Parker's story. There is plenty more to say that I cant type on YouTube. Check out the link (no spaces)
rickross . com / reference / mormon / mormon576 . html
ch5342 2 years ago
I know all about the Parker case and was using that as one example out of many. My point with CC was that they were previously allowed to do something that they now cannot. I was adopted through them, and they do a great service. The state bullied them into closing by threatening to pull funds, and they obviously cannot afford it themselves.
I know your opinion, but I am 20 years old and know plenty of people in my generation who do not support gay marriage. It won't be legal in MA forever.
stevefm8 2 years ago
@stevefm8
Your Parker case is not a good example to support your point, since the Parkers and the Whirtlins have an agenda and ties with the Mormons.
Yes, CC was able to discriminate against gay people using public money. Now, based on anti-discrimination laws, they cant do that using state money. If you want to do that use your own money.
Younger generations support gay rights by 65%. Every poll and voting pattern shows that. You are just part of the 25%, thats all.
ch5342 2 years ago
65+25 does not equal 100...and I don't know what polls you are talking about, but even in CA, exit polling showed around 40% of 18-29 year old supporting prop 8. People grow more conservative as they age, and that will likely hold true for this issue.
When I said I didn't know where it comes from, I was responding to your comment about how people are opposed for religious reasons, which is oftentimes not the case.
All I can say is that you won't change your opinion, but neither will we.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Where do you get people grow more conservative as they grow? That's definitely not true. Also, the only age group that supported prop 8 was 65+ with 67%. The rest opposed it. Also, there are other important factors on the voting pattern that make a big difference, but its clear we have the young-er votes.
I suggest you stop making statements if you "dont know where it comes from."
I hope you change your views and maybe you will. For now, you are in the wrong side of history. Your choice.
ch5342 2 years ago
Uh that's common sense? Its a well known fact in political science that younger people are more liberal, and grow more conservative with age.
Actually, every age group voted in favor of prop. 8 EXCEPT for 18-29 year olds, who were 60% against. I don't know where you get your data but those are the facts.
stevefm8 2 years ago
@stevefm8
They may grow more conservative fiscally or in political party, but someone who is for civil rights now is hard to say he/she will not be for it in the future.
Actually you are wrong once more. The only age group that voted 50+ percent for prop 8 was the age 65 or older. I got my info from the report of Patrick Egan (NYU) and Kenneth Sherrill (Hunter College-CUNY). Here's the link for you (no paces):
thetaskforce . org / downloads/... / egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09 . pdf
ch5342 2 years ago
Bzzzzzt, worng answer. The polls show 62% of Massachussets voters oppose any efforts to overturn gay marriage in the state. Massachussets and Vermont are the most amenable states to gay marriage.
kokas223 2 years ago 2
No, not true. I live there and there is no way that many people support it.
stevefm8 2 years ago
How about doing some research before trying to debate? here's the poll: scribd com doc 15401854 Massachusetts-Marriage-Equality-Works-Survey-Report
(replace the spaces with "/") It's done by one of the best polling firms in the country.
kokas223 2 years ago
Haha uhh...that "survey" is done by a gay rights organization and I have seen it before. Try finding unbiased sources. Fortunately I know my neighbors, and I know that they are sick of this crap. One day we will overturn it.
stevefm8 2 years ago
Oh I'm not doubting that at all. Central Massachusetts isn't the whole state and of course I have no idea where you're from. That reminds of WA State, where the "liberals" from the Seattle metro area control the state's politics because of its huge population, while the rest of the state complains about that and talks about "seceding" and form its own state with Northern Idaho. And this is the last time I'll reply to you.
kokas223 2 years ago
All of Massachusetts is heavily democratic; we are not Washington state. Worcester county has a very large population, but you're right, you don't know about any of that or much of anything, as is evidenced by your postings.
At least you're good at geography.
stevefm8 2 years ago
I know your county leans heavily democratic, you bunny. This has liitle to do with party identification and more to do with perceptions of homosexuality (choice/born with) and levels of religiosity. it's completely irrelevant that 60% of your "neighbors" voe for Obama and other Dems. Period.
kokas223 2 years ago
The survey wasnt "done" by a gay organization. You couldnt be more stupid. READ IT first before talking out of your as.
Fortunately everyone knows better than you in MA and they are not bigoted as you and "your neighbors" are. Gay marriage is there to stay in MA. Get used to it.
ch5342 2 years ago
To complement what kokas223 has already taught you:
"By a margin of 2-to-1, Massachusetts voters agree that allowing same-sex couples to wed is better for society overall. Voters believe that marriage is an important part of a strong and healthy society, so its good for society that equal marriage rights allow more people to get married."
Lake Research Partners
lakeresearch . com / news / - "LRP Salutes 5th Anniversary of MA Marriage Equality"
ch5342 2 years ago
Senator Alesi is said to be supporting the bill: "I probably will be making a public statement somewhere in the near future," said Sen. James S. Alesi, a Monroe County Republican who represents part of Rochester. Insiders say he is one potential vote for the bill."
flipfloper
newkillerstardust 2 years ago
awful
passonshapero 2 years ago
Silent movie theatrics mean nothing. The vote does. Who cares if he looks agonized. To hell with him.
latice 2 years ago 2
Alessi signed his own fate with his voters. He's shown that he's merely a party puppet, especially after he pledged support for this bill. He's a coward and a follower, not a leader.
milindoe 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Marriage is between a man and a woman. Go have civil unions if you want, but a union between the same sex will NEVER EVER be a marriage.
clownface2 2 years ago
Go away, bigot.
darsh5k 2 years ago
Why not? Isn't marriage about love, commitment and mutual responsibility? It doesn't matter if the couple is gay or straight, it's about love.
craziresi 2 years ago
@clownface2 yeah, keep thinking that. Never ever . As if you have a clue.
johnozed 2 years ago
Coward senator. You will be in the same place in history as the KKK and all those who opposed equality if you dont change your position. Shame on you!
ch5342 2 years ago