Since the 737's "history of rudder problems" is frequently mentioned in this story, it makes sense to quantify it. As of 2003, 737s had flown approx 124 million hrs & covered 49 billion nautical miles.
tinyurlDOTcom/82ahzxb
As of 2012, there have been exactly 2 confirmed instances of 737 rudder problems of the nature the attorney is claiming. So it was an *extremely* rare occurrence. 1 per 62 million hrs. There have been 4 other *suspected* occurrences. But whether those really were is unclear.
@ all contributors to this thread; as I've said before, the only people who knew what really happened were on the flight deck, and they are dead. For all of you who still believe that a pilot would wilfully crash a plane to kill himself and others, I'd suggest that you look at yourselves before making such suggestions; it's totally contrary to natural self- preservation at best, and an affront to human decency at worst. The courts got it right.
I'm pretty unconvinced by the court case, but I do wonder about the logic of switching off the black boxes. Surely the pilot would have known that doing so would lead everyone directly to the conclusion that he crashed the plane on purpose?
See this wasn't Boeing's fault, just like the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico wasn't British Petroleum's fault. I don't understand why Boeing and Airbus are simply 'assemblers' and why parts are made from hundreds of other companies worldwide. How is it possible to achieve quality control on a product you sell if you don't make it?
Suicide, he disabled both black boxes. It does not matter that it was done at slightly separate times. He needs to disable those boxes so there is no evidence. His family would not get the huge payout of his life insurance if his death was a suicide. Yea, this is terrible, but what is worse is the fact that a bunch of lawyers were able to convince a jury otherwise. Lawyers saw a huge payday in this, they could make a nun look like Satan when there is that much money to be won.
@mdaLIVE They are circuit breakers much like the ones inside you'r household fusebox. They are designed to cut power to the recorders in the event of power surge. Naturally the pilots need to be able to reset them and they would have to pushed in manually, so of course they can be pulled out manually as well.
@mdaLIVE There's no literal OFF button for the Recorder, there is however circuit breakers so that if something is wrong with the Recorder it doesn't effect other systems.
You cant bleed 6 miles worth of altitude in a one minute timeframe without rolling it, maintiaining full engine power the entire time and maintaining downward elevator application as well. It just wont happen any other way. Im sorry. You telling me that troubleshooting a PCU unit failure by applying full power & almost reaching the speed of sound is what the pilots did? Either they're the dumbest pilots on the entire planet, or this case reeks of Bullspit.
@scowley86 You are a pilot yourself? You seem very "smart" in this.
Let me tell you something, it's not a simulator in front of your PC.. there are extreme g forces.. and they didnt expected such a thing to happen, and captain went to galley a few moments before that happened, so imagine a situation, f/o is chilling reading some news paper, and captain is not in cockpit.. suddently it happens.. maybe they confused.. during such a g-forces, it becomes harder to think rationally...
@HotDog12ist I am an airline trainee pilot.so lets say it was an accident. PSU fails & throws the rudder hard over to one side, the aircraft would not completely invert, it would do what is known as a severe"skid"to one side eventually causing the nose to drop & the plane to roll to one side & eventually dive,loosing altitude quickly.it is required that pilots cut off AT & AP & throttle back the engines to avoid overspeed while recovering.it is impossible that they would throttle up
@HotDog12ist even if the G forces were so strong as to effect mental awareness, it is 100% against pilot instinct to throttle engines to full power during an upset maneuver and/or dive.Not even a monkey would think of pushing the engines so hard under such dire circumstances. also, the initial roll would not be possible without left aerolone input, a simple rudder PSU failure (hard-over) isnt enough to throw the plane into a perfect inverted roll.this would have required pilot input
@scowley86 During cruise, AP was engaged (LNAV/VNAV) which basically controls the speed (VNAV).. if PCU failed and roll happened, AT would stay engaged..
And it's known fact to all B737CL drivers, that during such circumstances, AT will not react adequately but will keep powering up, so as per manual if overspeed or stall happens, pilot should disconnect AT immediately, lets say in this case captain was eating with seat pushed back from yoke, and with his seatbelt off..+ G forces...
@scowley86 So what i'm saying is that they confused and forgot about AT, which was on at the time.. or just they were not able to do something cause they were trown up due to strong G-forces.. ''the initial roll would not be possible without left aerolone input''
I have studied quite a lot on PCU incidents with 737, including reading all 200 page reports for United and UsAir... and in both of these accidents, aircrafts reacted the same as Silk air, roll to left and nose down position
@HotDog12ist you make a decent argument. However, my main point is that a PSU failure would induce an erratic dive. a full rudder hard-over does not lend itself to a streamlined dive. there would be plenty of violent/erratic yawing, slipping and skidding on the way down & at close to the speed of sound this would surely prematurely break apart the AC.the amount of time it would take for the AC to reach the ground from that altitude would be much longer than 60 seconds due to this.
@HotDog12ist additionally, if AT were to remain engaged, it wouldnt be set on full power, but on cruise power. In order to keep the nose down and fight off the lifting effects of the wings, full power has to be applied and full down elevator pressure. The aircraft will fight very hard against the pilot to regain itself so the pilot must push very hard. A PSU failure cannot produce such an event in such a short amount of time. A PSU failure cannot cause a straight nose down dive.
@kag6@2cabs2toucan: Reasonable doubt is not relevant in the LA court case. Reasonable doubt is the standard of proof in criminal cases, while the preponderance of evidence/balance of probabilities is the standard in civil cases (i.e. lawsuits). The jury found that the balance of probabilities favoured the defective PCU theory.
I disagree completely with this, there is at least a reasonable, if not far more than reasonable doubt that the aircraft was brought down intentionally. I think the easiest thing to do is look at the math, what are the odds of the rudder having a hard-over versus what are the odds of someone killing themselves.. its a no brainer..suicide (sadly) is far more common than people would like to admit.
@kag6 Suicide may be common but suicides in which the lives of many unrelated persons are taken with them are not. Add to that the fact of known problems with 737 rudder controls led to FAA ordered corrective action across thousands of planes and your napkin math doesn't look so convincing.
@2cabs2toucan ..rudder problems or not, they had no hard evidence that happened here. In actuality they had no hard evidence either way, so my "napkin math" is actually just a test of probability, and there IS a reasonable probability he commited suicide, and therefore there should have been reasonable doubt.
@kag6 I agree there is no hard evidence either way I was just disagreeing with your premises for the likelihood of suicide. This case is a very interesting example of how easily one conclusion can assert itself based on a lack of info. The suicide argument sounded tempting before the final investigation. I am taking of the revealed history and nature of the problems with the data recorders, as well as the true nature of the pilots insurance and finances, while a PSU problem was not really out.
This was a brand new aircraft thatwas fully operational. The pilot turned of the voice recorder, subdued (or killed) the co-pilot and crash the plane. The pilot did not get along with the co-pilot, the pilot was in financial strain and put a large insurance policy on himself.
The pilot purposely crashed the plane in a HORRIFIC way in a (successful) attempt to destroy the evidence.
Look, pilot error or not, I wouldn't ride on a defective servo rudder unit unless the built a redundant rudder system. And if the captain was a fault, well what is the first officer do to salvage the plane. He's the one in charge. The only way a pilot suicide is possible is TWO pilots have to be involved in a suicide. OK that's my stupid opinion. I'm sure you have a better one.
Maybe it was both... The hydrolic's manufacturing defect lead to the uncommanded rudder which forces the aircraft to bank invertly then nose diving down. The pilot sees this as an opportunity to kill himself, and he just make sure that the plane stays nose dive and hit the river where there will be no more casualties besides himself, the crew, and the passengers. If the rudder weren't malfunctioning, he wouldn't commit suicide. If he wouldn't, he would've recover from the rudder malfunction.
Flying in VMC conditions at FL 370, plenty of time and altitude to correct for the "uncommanded" rudder. The other 737s where on approach (low altitudes) and crews were untrained for such events. I came to conclusion of pilot suicide and the evidence too. Lawyers just confused people to win a case. Double check the the evidence for pilot suicide and the BS lawyers theory.
People do wierd Sh!t for insurance money....yes. Lawyers work for money....yes.There aint Erin Brockovich in real life people. Was the pilot going broke, yes. Did the pilot get demoted for turning off flight recorders, yes. Did the pilot die the same day his insurance came into effect, yes. Did the pilot get trained for a uncommanded full rudder deviation, yes. Did the plane go down with full power, yes. Nose down spiral, roll wings level, POWER TO IDLE, return to cruise attitude.
The crash investigators fukked up big time!! The court got it right. What concerns me is that the co-pilot (white) is at the controls when the plane goes down and somehow they determine that the pilot came back to the cockpit, disabled the co-pilot, turned off the recording devices with a 8 minute gap and then brought the plane down!! Why was the co-pilot not a suspect?
a rudder induced yaw takes more than 5 seconds. The rudder deflects, the wing is subject to a higher angle of attack because of dihedral. The roll is anything but axial. There would be huge heading changes and unco ordination. It was suicide trust me. I know a lot about flying. Any airplane will try to recover. You would have a tough time holding it straight down...especially with the rudder over. Suicide.
@dolphfreak i meant to say how is it possible to justify vs=-33k if the pilot tries to save the plane. the pilot will reduce thrust and apply speed brake. even pointing nose down, -33k is well above the terminal velocity.
IMHO, Egypt air flight 990 was do to mass murder as every other issue with the plane could be over come. In this case, there is just too much unknowns to say for sure. I dont think you can rule out mass murder, but the failure of the tail is possible as well, and it did take investigations time to figure it out, so I think I;m 50/50 on this.
Isnt it ironic that the Govt Of Singapore had nothing to do with the case or even issue a statement wrt the findings of the lawyers.All i can say is that the NTSB,the servo valve manufactures ,NTSC and the s'pore Govt (Ministry of civil aviation) is making a scapegoat out of a dead man. I dont think any soldier who has solemly sworn to defend his country till the death will tkae this drastic route as suggested. Hopfully the s'pore govt can better defend its citizens.
i am no pilot nor am i an Aeronautical engineer so forgive me for asking, why do we need an ON/OFF switch for the 3 parameters mentioned in this case? Cockpit Data Recorder / Flight Data Recorder etc...
Is there a valid reason for this? If we do not want pilots switching on and offing these parameters, well them may be some one should consider not giving that option to the pilot.
Like i said, i know nothing about aircraft and piloting but this question is i think a logical question.
@contactdilshan You would likely switch the the recording devices off during maintainence, or other times of extended dawdling on the ground. The data recorders don't have an infinite capacity for storing information, and are likely only switched on during the pre-flight checklists, and switched off again post-flight. There are hundreds of cockpit switches not used in normal flight at all, but to conduct systems checks or to respond to unusual operation conditions.
the plain flipt over and dive , its more likely the pilots are not seated , fell off , or slammed there heads that cold explain they didnt react ( sorry for bad english ) :D
@9amtoxic It wouldn't work like that. Centrifugal force would keep them in their seats; and typically they'd be belted into their seats as standard operating proceedure anyway. The 'rudder hardover' failure doesn't even need them to be knocked out and unresponsive to not save the aircraft anyway; when it happened to two other aircraft it was in effect a sealed and unavoidable death, the pilots never figured out the bizarre behaviour in time nor how to respond to it correctly if at all.
The investigator had some grudges with the pilot? Lols it's already said that the insurance was taken out for the mortgage for the house. Racist douche.
So, Captain unbuckled his seatbelt, turned around, Pulled the circuit breakers and knocked out the co-pilot and did a 'fake' rudder hardover in a matter of 5 minutes? And how is it possible to pull the circuit breaks 2 mins after it starts going inverted ? I'm confused. Vague documentary...
my question. how did the testing that was later done in florida by a individual lawyer found out the problem in the rudder servo valve (which the NTSB failed to point and passed the part in the test) this is a very strange point.
the NTSB always puts this point in a case when a muslim pilot is involved.
watch the episode in which there is a egyption pilot "al-batuti" is involved, i think it is the flash air case.
@kevjay777 He switched off the CVR (not FDR) on that previous occasion so he could have a private conversation with his F/O about the earlier go-around incident. A serious violation, yes, but not evidence for a later suicide attempt. Many people who commit suicide do seem normal beforehand, but they all have a reason. Most often the reason is mental illness, for which there is no evidence. His work trouble and financial issues would make anyone crabby, but murder-suicide? I just don't see it.
@dcs002 I agree and maybe go a little further than you. We just can't see it (explain it). I think we are on the same page but maybe a different book. Still I appreciate your mature approach to the conversation and the respect we mutually have for those that perished.
Some people who commit suicide often seem perfectly normal right up until they off do it. He wanted his to appear as an accident so he acted normally. As to the FDR turning itself off, okay, but that doesn't explain the CVR going off. Coincidence? Not hardly. And the 6 minute gap between the two can be explained by any number of reasons. I think it was because he was hesitant to carry out his plan. That's just my theory but that's all anyone has. IMO the evidence points to a deliberate crash.
In a court of law (at least here in America) it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. The manufacturer of that part looks guilty as sin. Even settling with the other families and the eventual FAA requirement to replace the original part in all 737's is vindication for the pilots. Most intriguing Air Crash Investigation ever!
@IchigoKurosaki2121 Exactly. You need a lot more evidence to allege that he murdered 103 other people. If he wanted to kill himself in an air accident, he could have gone up in a private plane... the Egypt Air case was very different. In that case, they had him speaking on the CVR, and there was a definite issue of anger and revenge that does not seem to be present in this case. I am also surprised that the NTSB didn't do more tests on the duo server valve given the other accidents.
its a fact whenever boeing is involved in an accident..the american investigation agencies always try to blame piolots and even suicide, ..cases silk air, egtptian air flight 990 crash...god knows the truth...
The lawyer & his "experts-for-hire" are full of crap. Cockpit & data recorders both failing on their own within a short period, just as an aircraft experiences a catastrophic event, is extremely unlikely. Never happened before or since. Likewise never proved the part in question actually failed during flight. Instead, this sleazy lawyer (seeking money for himself) used innuendo and sympathy for victims to convinced a naive (aircraft, hydraulics, etc) jury of the company's culpability.
Sorry for so many posts, but this case is really fascinating to me. I just want to put it in context. The evidence for a mechanical cause of this crash is weak. Two similar crashes & one incident had previously occurred due to rudder PCU problems, and the recovered rudder PCU from this plane showed machining defects. The rest is circumstantial. Evidence for suicide is entirely circumstantial, based on work and financial problems that weren't that serious. No solid evidence for either cause.
@psp1234able NG actually gives the point of view of both the sides, suicide and malfunction. I would rather take malfunction (highly probable) than a pilot suicide until clearly proven.
@psp1234able maybe it was a suicide maybe it was not. It wasn't proven at all. So why just blame it on the pilot who has a loving family and friends. The entire country of his thinks this possibly was not a suicide attempt. I cannot prove it otherwise. Neither could the safety transportation teams could prove it. However if there were doubts about rudder issues or CVR getting stopped several times before in other aeroplanes then benefit of doubt has to be given to the pilots.
It wasn't a pilot suicide. The evidence shows that and moreover a man with family and loved ones does not take hundreds of people with them like that. The theory of suicide is just bull and crap.
Rudder control unit had problems for sure because 37's had this problem and two crashed had already taken place before.
@punchoo ummmm..... sorry for the contradiction but what happened to Eastwind Flight 517. it had a rudder malfunction but no fatalities and also this flight alongside with USAir 427 and United flight 585 happened during landing. But at 35000 ft? unthinkable. by that time it is already fixed and the problem is solved prior to this crash. Possibly it is a suicidal act. Prove to me that is a rudder malfunction. and why the did the CVR and FDR stopped before the crash? No rudder malfunction at all.
@psp1234able What do you think of the evidence presented at the civil trial? The machining of the PCU parts was clearly substandard, which raises doubts in my mind. However, this program did not make the connection between the poor machining (burring) and actual PCU malfunction. They didn't say how one could cause the other, but apparently the (non-technically trained) jury did find this to be THE cause. The tolerances are so tight in those parts though. Any little thing could cause malfunction.
@psp1234able The NTSB accident report for USAir 427 was published in 1999, & UA 585 wasn't published until 2001. These problems weren't solved in time to affect the SilkAir flight. The NTSB report for UA 585, pages 135-137, describes scenarios in which the rudder PCUs can malfunction, and thermal shock (from descent) is only one of them. Particulate matter is another, and the burring on the recovered SilkAir PCU leaves particulate matter jamming as a real possibility, regardless of altitude.
The problem with with the rudder hardover theory is that the UA585 and US427 crashes involved 'cold jams' of the servo valve. The cold air 'froze' the servo in the hardover position. The NTSB's recommendation: Fit heaters to the servo valve. The claim in the LA court was that it was a manufacturing defect, even if the pilot wasn't to blame (which I dont believe) the similarity of the cause between them is ended already.
This reminds me of the Air Alaska Flight 261 crash. I kept thinking about it the whole time. I went back to look it up and saw that Flight 261 was on an MD-83 not a 747, but still, very similar. That crash was due to improper fitting and lubrication of the jackscrew assembly. May God bless all the families of the victims for both flights. Thanks for posting, btw. I had not seen this one.
I think we should call the pilot from the dead and ask him. At that time, there was a big time problem with the servo valves of 737. Watch the episode "Hidden Danger" for further evidence. Even if the pilot wanted to suicide, why wouldn't he do it alone without hurting others? A suicidal person normally wouldn't think of hurting others because they're not murderers.
that ntsb guy is pissing me off with his conclusion that the pilot suicide. where there are proof that the rudder had a defect which could cause the plane to roll. very un-professional GREG FEITH!! IDIOT! i hope the dead man could wake up and tell you he wasnt trying to fucking suicide!
@Ducky888888 Hey, stranger things have happened, although it would be incredible... I guess the ultimate thing is that we'll never really know, there is convincing evidence both ways, but neither is completely airtight...
But either way, it's unlikely to happen again, the pilot suicide is a VERY isolated event, and the Servo valve has been redesigned... So lets all hope that either way, it's never a problem again...
@Ducky888888 It's really that simple, isn't it? Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that the odds of those three events occurring almost simultaneously are so high as to be virtually nil. Mr. Lack's case was built on smoke and mirrors and the jurors were too distracted by the show to understand that the simplest solution, no matter how repugnant it may be, is usually the right one. Thank you for posting this.
@Ducky888888 That's the opinion of the American NTSB. However, it contains a major logical flaw: "I can't think of another explanation, therefore my hypothesis is correct." I always suspect the neutrality of the Country of Manufacture findings because they have inherent pressures to find something other than a mechanical explanation. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the evidence for suicide is circumstantial and scant. He had little motive, and he adored his sons.
If you read the NTSC report w/NTSB comments, they don't even know which pilot, if either, left the flight deck. The FDR had data gaps as long as 11 minutes, and the end of the tape was chemically damaged. 737s had known issues with rudder hardovers caused by PCU problems, and the rudder PCU in the accident plane had apparent problems. There was NO "audio signature" that the CVR breaker had been pulled. If it had been, why wait 6 minutes to pull the FDR breaker? There's more to this story.
@dcs002 I was thinking that too. The plane could just as easily been brought down by the 1st officer. As for the FDR and CVR, I think there is more to that. There have been several instances of crashes with old or mismatched parts being installed in other planes (Tuniter & Swiss Air come to mind) so I am interested in the fact that Silk replaced the recorders that came with the brand new plane with old ones from other planes. There is plenty of room for doubt.
@Ducky888888 Yes, but his assets far outweighed his debt. He was worth $350,000 US when he died, not counting the insurance paying off his mortgage. He had recently taken a major hit in the stock market for sure, but that doesn't seem a reason for suicide. He wasn't financially desperate or bankrupt or destitute. This all came out in an audit of the captain's financial status by Price Waterhouse that was referenced in the NTSC report and completely ignored in the NTSB response.
@Ducky888888 Why would Silk Air replace a new state of the art FDR and CVR with old, inferior units? Without the missing recorders, they would not be so quick to think suicide. And yet the fact that Silk Air replaced the new units that came with the plane with old ones would seem to indicate less than stellar maintenance on Silk's part. With the previous servo valve crashes, there was no explanation for 2 or 3 years but they kept looking.
Also, thanks for posting... either way, a very interesting case. I didn't know this episode existed... I don't think it was an official Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode, so it is not in their list of episodes.
@Ducky888888 It isn't just one man playing; there are thousands of 737s clocking up hundreds of billions of flight hours. Murphy's Law sates if it can go wrong, however unlikely, it eventually will. Tempt the near impossible enough times, billions upon billions of times, and you may just see it happen; or you may not. But this isn't a 'one man buying the only lottery ticket and striking it rich' in reverse; there have been billions, one could have eventually bought the 'impossible' ticket.
very good point ducky,the boeing flight directive for rudder hard-overs doesnt say"increase airspeed until mach 1 and structural failure occurs" they had the altitude,AND TRAINING to try to recover the aircraft,but this didnt happen.
-the cvr audio signature points to an intentional disconnection.
-fdr was also turned off.(as you say,one hell of a coincidence)
-there was NO attempt to all least correct the dive or decrease the airspeed.
@Ducky888888 I figure airplanes crash because of one failure: failure of the quality standards.
But you're right, at the moment I can recall 3 mechanical failures at the same time. Thing is... there is simply no way to determine whether it was a pilot suicide. We may think so, believe so etc. but that doesn't make is a proof or like some people said "the truth".
@Ducky888888 i can remember multiple failures , more than 3 [more than 20] . It was air france , struggling through storm it was flight 447 with multiple failures including ap and much more, so it might be possible.!!
The problem i have with this video is the rudder conclusion. The rudder previously failed on landing, the landings require use of the rudder and the problem was when hot oil was injected into a cold servo motor it would go in the opposite direction.T Their is no reason to use a rudder in mid flight and it was never used prior to that during the flight. The pilot had a history of turning off the CVR, doesnt that raise questions? He left for many minutes prior to the incident...for what?
Idiot jury. Oooo fancy charts. Aaaaah chance to hand corporate america its ass on a plate. Jury fell for it hook line and sinker. Damn fancy LA lawyers.
100% justice = money in lawyers pocket. No conflict of interest there huh?
hawtdog79 1 day ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Since the 737's "history of rudder problems" is frequently mentioned in this story, it makes sense to quantify it. As of 2003, 737s had flown approx 124 million hrs & covered 49 billion nautical miles.
tinyurlDOTcom/82ahzxb
As of 2012, there have been exactly 2 confirmed instances of 737 rudder problems of the nature the attorney is claiming. So it was an *extremely* rare occurrence. 1 per 62 million hrs. There have been 4 other *suspected* occurrences. But whether those really were is unclear.
sbergman27 3 days ago
@ all contributors to this thread; as I've said before, the only people who knew what really happened were on the flight deck, and they are dead. For all of you who still believe that a pilot would wilfully crash a plane to kill himself and others, I'd suggest that you look at yourselves before making such suggestions; it's totally contrary to natural self- preservation at best, and an affront to human decency at worst. The courts got it right.
RIP those who died.
jonnybee48 4 days ago
bloody sad.
MDkid1 6 days ago
I'm pretty unconvinced by the court case, but I do wonder about the logic of switching off the black boxes. Surely the pilot would have known that doing so would lead everyone directly to the conclusion that he crashed the plane on purpose?
themuffinman12345 1 week ago
See this wasn't Boeing's fault, just like the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico wasn't British Petroleum's fault. I don't understand why Boeing and Airbus are simply 'assemblers' and why parts are made from hundreds of other companies worldwide. How is it possible to achieve quality control on a product you sell if you don't make it?
transdrole 3 weeks ago
This was suicide 100%.....those dirty, greedy, lawyers should be prosecuted.... !
relax24303 3 weeks ago
Suicide, he disabled both black boxes. It does not matter that it was done at slightly separate times. He needs to disable those boxes so there is no evidence. His family would not get the huge payout of his life insurance if his death was a suicide. Yea, this is terrible, but what is worse is the fact that a bunch of lawyers were able to convince a jury otherwise. Lawyers saw a huge payday in this, they could make a nun look like Satan when there is that much money to be won.
leez92 1 month ago
@leez92 u heard them the black boxes were fucked, They were state of the art SSD which have only just now been fixed so they work
soarer205 3 weeks ago
Why is there even an option to turn off the flight recorder data? That just seems illogical.
mdaLIVE 1 month ago 20
Comment removed
DrKeez 4 weeks ago
@mdaLIVE...It's not a switch that you turn off.You have to pull the fuse.
TheSkete 2 weeks ago
@mdaLIVE They are circuit breakers much like the ones inside you'r household fusebox. They are designed to cut power to the recorders in the event of power surge. Naturally the pilots need to be able to reset them and they would have to pushed in manually, so of course they can be pulled out manually as well.
Robert3785 2 weeks ago
@mdaLIVE In case of electrical fire.
runescapejames1 5 days ago
@mdaLIVE There's no literal OFF button for the Recorder, there is however circuit breakers so that if something is wrong with the Recorder it doesn't effect other systems.
luftshiffbau 1 day ago
THEY DIDN'T EVEN TEST THE SERVO VALVE LIKE THEY DID WITH THE OTHER 2 CRASHES. FUCKING LAWYERS
angryfurniture 1 month ago
You cant bleed 6 miles worth of altitude in a one minute timeframe without rolling it, maintiaining full engine power the entire time and maintaining downward elevator application as well. It just wont happen any other way. Im sorry. You telling me that troubleshooting a PCU unit failure by applying full power & almost reaching the speed of sound is what the pilots did? Either they're the dumbest pilots on the entire planet, or this case reeks of Bullspit.
scowley86 2 months ago
@scowley86 You are a pilot yourself? You seem very "smart" in this.
Let me tell you something, it's not a simulator in front of your PC.. there are extreme g forces.. and they didnt expected such a thing to happen, and captain went to galley a few moments before that happened, so imagine a situation, f/o is chilling reading some news paper, and captain is not in cockpit.. suddently it happens.. maybe they confused.. during such a g-forces, it becomes harder to think rationally...
HotDog12ist 1 month ago in playlist Citi lietotāja Ducky888888 videoklipi
@HotDog12ist I am an airline trainee pilot.so lets say it was an accident. PSU fails & throws the rudder hard over to one side, the aircraft would not completely invert, it would do what is known as a severe"skid"to one side eventually causing the nose to drop & the plane to roll to one side & eventually dive,loosing altitude quickly.it is required that pilots cut off AT & AP & throttle back the engines to avoid overspeed while recovering.it is impossible that they would throttle up
scowley86 1 month ago
@HotDog12ist even if the G forces were so strong as to effect mental awareness, it is 100% against pilot instinct to throttle engines to full power during an upset maneuver and/or dive.Not even a monkey would think of pushing the engines so hard under such dire circumstances. also, the initial roll would not be possible without left aerolone input, a simple rudder PSU failure (hard-over) isnt enough to throw the plane into a perfect inverted roll.this would have required pilot input
scowley86 1 month ago
@scowley86 During cruise, AP was engaged (LNAV/VNAV) which basically controls the speed (VNAV).. if PCU failed and roll happened, AT would stay engaged..
And it's known fact to all B737CL drivers, that during such circumstances, AT will not react adequately but will keep powering up, so as per manual if overspeed or stall happens, pilot should disconnect AT immediately, lets say in this case captain was eating with seat pushed back from yoke, and with his seatbelt off..+ G forces...
HotDog12ist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@scowley86 So what i'm saying is that they confused and forgot about AT, which was on at the time.. or just they were not able to do something cause they were trown up due to strong G-forces.. ''the initial roll would not be possible without left aerolone input''
I have studied quite a lot on PCU incidents with 737, including reading all 200 page reports for United and UsAir... and in both of these accidents, aircrafts reacted the same as Silk air, roll to left and nose down position
HotDog12ist 1 month ago
@HotDog12ist you make a decent argument. However, my main point is that a PSU failure would induce an erratic dive. a full rudder hard-over does not lend itself to a streamlined dive. there would be plenty of violent/erratic yawing, slipping and skidding on the way down & at close to the speed of sound this would surely prematurely break apart the AC.the amount of time it would take for the AC to reach the ground from that altitude would be much longer than 60 seconds due to this.
scowley86 1 month ago
@HotDog12ist additionally, if AT were to remain engaged, it wouldnt be set on full power, but on cruise power. In order to keep the nose down and fight off the lifting effects of the wings, full power has to be applied and full down elevator pressure. The aircraft will fight very hard against the pilot to regain itself so the pilot must push very hard. A PSU failure cannot produce such an event in such a short amount of time. A PSU failure cannot cause a straight nose down dive.
scowley86 1 month ago
@kag6 @2cabs2toucan: Reasonable doubt is not relevant in the LA court case. Reasonable doubt is the standard of proof in criminal cases, while the preponderance of evidence/balance of probabilities is the standard in civil cases (i.e. lawsuits). The jury found that the balance of probabilities favoured the defective PCU theory.
boastreef 2 months ago
@boastreef the whole case, to those who know aviation mind you, reeked of total and utter bullspit..
scowley86 2 months ago
so sadd
LBEESLY 2 months ago
Don't understand how the universe works? Well God did it!
Don't understand how the plane crashed? Well Pilot suicide!
efey71alj 3 months ago
@efey71alj Evolution, and how did the Captain press a button 7 feet away?
Laudan08 2 months ago in playlist More videos from Ducky888888
This is sad.... Rest in peace everyone from Silkair.. n be strong n god bless to their families.....
saintvictorie 3 months ago
@saintvictorie AMEN
Peacelove110 1 month ago
I disagree completely with this, there is at least a reasonable, if not far more than reasonable doubt that the aircraft was brought down intentionally. I think the easiest thing to do is look at the math, what are the odds of the rudder having a hard-over versus what are the odds of someone killing themselves.. its a no brainer..suicide (sadly) is far more common than people would like to admit.
kag6 3 months ago
@kag6 Suicide may be common but suicides in which the lives of many unrelated persons are taken with them are not. Add to that the fact of known problems with 737 rudder controls led to FAA ordered corrective action across thousands of planes and your napkin math doesn't look so convincing.
2cabs2toucan 3 months ago 6
@2cabs2toucan ..rudder problems or not, they had no hard evidence that happened here. In actuality they had no hard evidence either way, so my "napkin math" is actually just a test of probability, and there IS a reasonable probability he commited suicide, and therefore there should have been reasonable doubt.
kag6 3 months ago
@kag6 I agree there is no hard evidence either way I was just disagreeing with your premises for the likelihood of suicide. This case is a very interesting example of how easily one conclusion can assert itself based on a lack of info. The suicide argument sounded tempting before the final investigation. I am taking of the revealed history and nature of the problems with the data recorders, as well as the true nature of the pilots insurance and finances, while a PSU problem was not really out.
2cabs2toucan 3 months ago
This was a brand new aircraft thatwas fully operational. The pilot turned of the voice recorder, subdued (or killed) the co-pilot and crash the plane. The pilot did not get along with the co-pilot, the pilot was in financial strain and put a large insurance policy on himself.
The pilot purposely crashed the plane in a HORRIFIC way in a (successful) attempt to destroy the evidence.
chuck9788 3 months ago
Look, pilot error or not, I wouldn't ride on a defective servo rudder unit unless the built a redundant rudder system. And if the captain was a fault, well what is the first officer do to salvage the plane. He's the one in charge. The only way a pilot suicide is possible is TWO pilots have to be involved in a suicide. OK that's my stupid opinion. I'm sure you have a better one.
blue1panther1 3 months ago
Maybe it was both... The hydrolic's manufacturing defect lead to the uncommanded rudder which forces the aircraft to bank invertly then nose diving down. The pilot sees this as an opportunity to kill himself, and he just make sure that the plane stays nose dive and hit the river where there will be no more casualties besides himself, the crew, and the passengers. If the rudder weren't malfunctioning, he wouldn't commit suicide. If he wouldn't, he would've recover from the rudder malfunction.
TommyIrianto 4 months ago
what about the fucking first officer??
wajikhan1 4 months ago
Flying in VMC conditions at FL 370, plenty of time and altitude to correct for the "uncommanded" rudder. The other 737s where on approach (low altitudes) and crews were untrained for such events. I came to conclusion of pilot suicide and the evidence too. Lawyers just confused people to win a case. Double check the the evidence for pilot suicide and the BS lawyers theory.
BadAssWeed 4 months ago
People do wierd Sh!t for insurance money....yes. Lawyers work for money....yes.There aint Erin Brockovich in real life people. Was the pilot going broke, yes. Did the pilot get demoted for turning off flight recorders, yes. Did the pilot die the same day his insurance came into effect, yes. Did the pilot get trained for a uncommanded full rudder deviation, yes. Did the plane go down with full power, yes. Nose down spiral, roll wings level, POWER TO IDLE, return to cruise attitude.
BadAssWeed 4 months ago
The crash investigators fukked up big time!! The court got it right. What concerns me is that the co-pilot (white) is at the controls when the plane goes down and somehow they determine that the pilot came back to the cockpit, disabled the co-pilot, turned off the recording devices with a 8 minute gap and then brought the plane down!! Why was the co-pilot not a suspect?
myohmy0 4 months ago
a rudder induced yaw takes more than 5 seconds. The rudder deflects, the wing is subject to a higher angle of attack because of dihedral. The roll is anything but axial. There would be huge heading changes and unco ordination. It was suicide trust me. I know a lot about flying. Any airplane will try to recover. You would have a tough time holding it straight down...especially with the rudder over. Suicide.
699backstab 4 months ago
vertical speed = -33000 ft/min, how is it possible to justify that? Impossible.
sqy391 5 months ago
@sqy391 Flight data recorder?
dolphfreak 4 months ago
@dolphfreak i meant to say how is it possible to justify vs=-33k if the pilot tries to save the plane. the pilot will reduce thrust and apply speed brake. even pointing nose down, -33k is well above the terminal velocity.
sqy391 4 months ago
IMHO, Egypt air flight 990 was do to mass murder as every other issue with the plane could be over come. In this case, there is just too much unknowns to say for sure. I dont think you can rule out mass murder, but the failure of the tail is possible as well, and it did take investigations time to figure it out, so I think I;m 50/50 on this.
KangaKucha 5 months ago
there is one way to find out if that rudder could hardover, a thermal shock test. That was done on United 585 and USair 427
thomsonfly645k 5 months ago
@thomsonfly645k There's not enough left of the aircraft to do this.
burlas00 5 months ago
@burlas00 they said they kept the servo valve from the rudder
thomsonfly645k 5 months ago
@s2k997
The circuit breakers are there to prevent electrical fires. I suppose they could keep the pilots from having access, but that is what they are for.
littlelion1972 5 months ago
@contactdilshan
The circuit breakers are there to prevent electrical fires. I suppose they could keep the pilots from having access, but that is what they are for.
littlelion1972 5 months ago
Isnt it ironic that the Govt Of Singapore had nothing to do with the case or even issue a statement wrt the findings of the lawyers.All i can say is that the NTSB,the servo valve manufactures ,NTSC and the s'pore Govt (Ministry of civil aviation) is making a scapegoat out of a dead man. I dont think any soldier who has solemly sworn to defend his country till the death will tkae this drastic route as suggested. Hopfully the s'pore govt can better defend its citizens.
theshippie 5 months ago
Yes I totally agree with him. he just turned off the CVR not FDR.
(1)There is no evidence to blame the pilot to do it deliberately.
(2)Murder-Suicide is totally ridicules. cant agree with the conclusion.
ArunG03 5 months ago
i am no pilot nor am i an Aeronautical engineer so forgive me for asking, why do we need an ON/OFF switch for the 3 parameters mentioned in this case? Cockpit Data Recorder / Flight Data Recorder etc...
Is there a valid reason for this? If we do not want pilots switching on and offing these parameters, well them may be some one should consider not giving that option to the pilot.
Like i said, i know nothing about aircraft and piloting but this question is i think a logical question.
contactdilshan 5 months ago
@contactdilshan You would likely switch the the recording devices off during maintainence, or other times of extended dawdling on the ground. The data recorders don't have an infinite capacity for storing information, and are likely only switched on during the pre-flight checklists, and switched off again post-flight. There are hundreds of cockpit switches not used in normal flight at all, but to conduct systems checks or to respond to unusual operation conditions.
s2k997 5 months ago
the plain flipt over and dive , its more likely the pilots are not seated , fell off , or slammed there heads that cold explain they didnt react ( sorry for bad english ) :D
9amtoxic 5 months ago
@9amtoxic It wouldn't work like that. Centrifugal force would keep them in their seats; and typically they'd be belted into their seats as standard operating proceedure anyway. The 'rudder hardover' failure doesn't even need them to be knocked out and unresponsive to not save the aircraft anyway; when it happened to two other aircraft it was in effect a sealed and unavoidable death, the pilots never figured out the bizarre behaviour in time nor how to respond to it correctly if at all.
s2k997 5 months ago
The investigator had some grudges with the pilot? Lols it's already said that the insurance was taken out for the mortgage for the house. Racist douche.
lahmian 5 months ago
So, Captain unbuckled his seatbelt, turned around, Pulled the circuit breakers and knocked out the co-pilot and did a 'fake' rudder hardover in a matter of 5 minutes? And how is it possible to pull the circuit breaks 2 mins after it starts going inverted ? I'm confused. Vague documentary...
xkiller1993x 5 months ago
the music is really fantastic
LOLMAN22 6 months ago
my question. how did the testing that was later done in florida by a individual lawyer found out the problem in the rudder servo valve (which the NTSB failed to point and passed the part in the test) this is a very strange point.
the NTSB always puts this point in a case when a muslim pilot is involved.
watch the episode in which there is a egyption pilot "al-batuti" is involved, i think it is the flash air case.
abuibrahimadnan 6 months ago
Remember he had also been reprimanded previously for turning off the FDR & CVR and was in fact stripped of his Instructor rating for doing it.
It isn't a pleasant thought, but people who deny it outright remind me of that river in Egypt . . . denial.
kevjay777 6 months ago
@kevjay777 He switched off the CVR (not FDR) on that previous occasion so he could have a private conversation with his F/O about the earlier go-around incident. A serious violation, yes, but not evidence for a later suicide attempt. Many people who commit suicide do seem normal beforehand, but they all have a reason. Most often the reason is mental illness, for which there is no evidence. His work trouble and financial issues would make anyone crabby, but murder-suicide? I just don't see it.
dcs002 6 months ago
@dcs002 I agree and maybe go a little further than you. We just can't see it (explain it). I think we are on the same page but maybe a different book. Still I appreciate your mature approach to the conversation and the respect we mutually have for those that perished.
kevjay777 6 months ago
Some people who commit suicide often seem perfectly normal right up until they off do it. He wanted his to appear as an accident so he acted normally. As to the FDR turning itself off, okay, but that doesn't explain the CVR going off. Coincidence? Not hardly. And the 6 minute gap between the two can be explained by any number of reasons. I think it was because he was hesitant to carry out his plan. That's just my theory but that's all anyone has. IMO the evidence points to a deliberate crash.
kevjay777 6 months ago
In a court of law (at least here in America) it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. The manufacturer of that part looks guilty as sin. Even settling with the other families and the eventual FAA requirement to replace the original part in all 737's is vindication for the pilots. Most intriguing Air Crash Investigation ever!
magellanmax 6 months ago
wow this case is really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
sebnemnisanci 6 months ago
Egypt Air 990 was DEFINITELY a suicide pilot...
However this flight is very hard to tell what exactly happened.
Both sides have a case, however neither case is really that strong...
I think the real truth of this crash may never be known.
IchigoKurosaki2121 6 months ago
@IchigoKurosaki2121 Exactly. You need a lot more evidence to allege that he murdered 103 other people. If he wanted to kill himself in an air accident, he could have gone up in a private plane... the Egypt Air case was very different. In that case, they had him speaking on the CVR, and there was a definite issue of anger and revenge that does not seem to be present in this case. I am also surprised that the NTSB didn't do more tests on the duo server valve given the other accidents.
srubi74 6 months ago
its a fact whenever boeing is involved in an accident..the american investigation agencies always try to blame piolots and even suicide, ..cases silk air, egtptian air flight 990 crash...god knows the truth...
ktriyas 6 months ago
The lawyer & his "experts-for-hire" are full of crap. Cockpit & data recorders both failing on their own within a short period, just as an aircraft experiences a catastrophic event, is extremely unlikely. Never happened before or since. Likewise never proved the part in question actually failed during flight. Instead, this sleazy lawyer (seeking money for himself) used innuendo and sympathy for victims to convinced a naive (aircraft, hydraulics, etc) jury of the company's culpability.
stewartx5 7 months ago
Sorry for so many posts, but this case is really fascinating to me. I just want to put it in context. The evidence for a mechanical cause of this crash is weak. Two similar crashes & one incident had previously occurred due to rudder PCU problems, and the recovered rudder PCU from this plane showed machining defects. The rest is circumstantial. Evidence for suicide is entirely circumstantial, based on work and financial problems that weren't that serious. No solid evidence for either cause.
dcs002 7 months ago
Everybody gotta die sometime. (PLATOON)
olaf761 7 months ago
@psp1234able NG actually gives the point of view of both the sides, suicide and malfunction. I would rather take malfunction (highly probable) than a pilot suicide until clearly proven.
punchoo 7 months ago
@psp1234able maybe it was a suicide maybe it was not. It wasn't proven at all. So why just blame it on the pilot who has a loving family and friends. The entire country of his thinks this possibly was not a suicide attempt. I cannot prove it otherwise. Neither could the safety transportation teams could prove it. However if there were doubts about rudder issues or CVR getting stopped several times before in other aeroplanes then benefit of doubt has to be given to the pilots.
punchoo 7 months ago
It wasn't a pilot suicide. The evidence shows that and moreover a man with family and loved ones does not take hundreds of people with them like that. The theory of suicide is just bull and crap.
Rudder control unit had problems for sure because 37's had this problem and two crashed had already taken place before.
Give the pilots some dignity!!!!
punchoo 8 months ago
@punchoo ummmm..... sorry for the contradiction but what happened to Eastwind Flight 517. it had a rudder malfunction but no fatalities and also this flight alongside with USAir 427 and United flight 585 happened during landing. But at 35000 ft? unthinkable. by that time it is already fixed and the problem is solved prior to this crash. Possibly it is a suicidal act. Prove to me that is a rudder malfunction. and why the did the CVR and FDR stopped before the crash? No rudder malfunction at all.
psp1234able 8 months ago
@psp1234able What do you think of the evidence presented at the civil trial? The machining of the PCU parts was clearly substandard, which raises doubts in my mind. However, this program did not make the connection between the poor machining (burring) and actual PCU malfunction. They didn't say how one could cause the other, but apparently the (non-technically trained) jury did find this to be THE cause. The tolerances are so tight in those parts though. Any little thing could cause malfunction.
dcs002 7 months ago
@psp1234able The NTSB accident report for USAir 427 was published in 1999, & UA 585 wasn't published until 2001. These problems weren't solved in time to affect the SilkAir flight. The NTSB report for UA 585, pages 135-137, describes scenarios in which the rudder PCUs can malfunction, and thermal shock (from descent) is only one of them. Particulate matter is another, and the burring on the recovered SilkAir PCU leaves particulate matter jamming as a real possibility, regardless of altitude.
dcs002 7 months ago
Guys, this isn't air crash investigation. It is some NatGeo channel special.
737boeing8 8 months ago
Walter Lack is a money-grubbing, bottom-feeding scumbag.
Rapunzel676 8 months ago
@Rapunzel676
I agree with you 100% that dumb ass cock sucker
The1theoneandonly1 7 months ago
The problem with with the rudder hardover theory is that the UA585 and US427 crashes involved 'cold jams' of the servo valve. The cold air 'froze' the servo in the hardover position. The NTSB's recommendation: Fit heaters to the servo valve. The claim in the LA court was that it was a manufacturing defect, even if the pilot wasn't to blame (which I dont believe) the similarity of the cause between them is ended already.
davidneibig 9 months ago
This reminds me of the Air Alaska Flight 261 crash. I kept thinking about it the whole time. I went back to look it up and saw that Flight 261 was on an MD-83 not a 747, but still, very similar. That crash was due to improper fitting and lubrication of the jackscrew assembly. May God bless all the families of the victims for both flights. Thanks for posting, btw. I had not seen this one.
ttjoslin 9 months ago
Fucking scumbag lawyers hiding the truth to make money. As usual.
direwo1f 11 months ago 15
I think we should call the pilot from the dead and ask him. At that time, there was a big time problem with the servo valves of 737. Watch the episode "Hidden Danger" for further evidence. Even if the pilot wanted to suicide, why wouldn't he do it alone without hurting others? A suicidal person normally wouldn't think of hurting others because they're not murderers.
MrTheGrabber 11 months ago
that ntsb guy is pissing me off with his conclusion that the pilot suicide. where there are proof that the rudder had a defect which could cause the plane to roll. very un-professional GREG FEITH!! IDIOT! i hope the dead man could wake up and tell you he wasnt trying to fucking suicide!
peopl3 11 months ago
The problem with the "not pilot suicide theory" is that what are the chances that the CVR, the FDR and the rudder fails at the same time?
Honestly very little.
There was no fire, there was no explosion on the plane so the possibility for it to happen, the three in the same time is almost impossible.
Ducky888888 1 year ago 11
@Ducky888888 Hey, stranger things have happened, although it would be incredible... I guess the ultimate thing is that we'll never really know, there is convincing evidence both ways, but neither is completely airtight...
But either way, it's unlikely to happen again, the pilot suicide is a VERY isolated event, and the Servo valve has been redesigned... So lets all hope that either way, it's never a problem again...
AndrossKenobi 10 months ago
@Ducky888888 It's really that simple, isn't it? Anyone with an ounce of sense can see that the odds of those three events occurring almost simultaneously are so high as to be virtually nil. Mr. Lack's case was built on smoke and mirrors and the jurors were too distracted by the show to understand that the simplest solution, no matter how repugnant it may be, is usually the right one. Thank you for posting this.
Rapunzel676 8 months ago
@Ducky888888 That's the opinion of the American NTSB. However, it contains a major logical flaw: "I can't think of another explanation, therefore my hypothesis is correct." I always suspect the neutrality of the Country of Manufacture findings because they have inherent pressures to find something other than a mechanical explanation. But extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the evidence for suicide is circumstantial and scant. He had little motive, and he adored his sons.
dcs002 7 months ago
If you read the NTSC report w/NTSB comments, they don't even know which pilot, if either, left the flight deck. The FDR had data gaps as long as 11 minutes, and the end of the tape was chemically damaged. 737s had known issues with rudder hardovers caused by PCU problems, and the rudder PCU in the accident plane had apparent problems. There was NO "audio signature" that the CVR breaker had been pulled. If it had been, why wait 6 minutes to pull the FDR breaker? There's more to this story.
dcs002 7 months ago
@dcs002
Thanks for your input, its really interesting.
Ducky888888 7 months ago
@dcs002 I was thinking that too. The plane could just as easily been brought down by the 1st officer. As for the FDR and CVR, I think there is more to that. There have been several instances of crashes with old or mismatched parts being installed in other planes (Tuniter & Swiss Air come to mind) so I am interested in the fact that Silk replaced the recorders that came with the brand new plane with old ones from other planes. There is plenty of room for doubt.
srubi74 6 months ago
@dcs002
He had a lot of debt.
Ducky888888 7 months ago
@Ducky888888 Yes, but his assets far outweighed his debt. He was worth $350,000 US when he died, not counting the insurance paying off his mortgage. He had recently taken a major hit in the stock market for sure, but that doesn't seem a reason for suicide. He wasn't financially desperate or bankrupt or destitute. This all came out in an audit of the captain's financial status by Price Waterhouse that was referenced in the NTSC report and completely ignored in the NTSB response.
dcs002 7 months ago
@Ducky888888 Why would Silk Air replace a new state of the art FDR and CVR with old, inferior units? Without the missing recorders, they would not be so quick to think suicide. And yet the fact that Silk Air replaced the new units that came with the plane with old ones would seem to indicate less than stellar maintenance on Silk's part. With the previous servo valve crashes, there was no explanation for 2 or 3 years but they kept looking.
srubi74 6 months ago
Also, thanks for posting... either way, a very interesting case. I didn't know this episode existed... I don't think it was an official Mayday/Air Crash Investigation episode, so it is not in their list of episodes.
srubi74 6 months ago
@Ducky888888 Winning the lottery is also an astronomical chance, yet someone still manages it every week.
AnkhorDraven 5 months ago
@AnkhorDraven
Yes but there are a lot of people playing lotto at the same time, here there is only one man "playing".
Ducky888888 5 months ago
@Ducky888888 There are also thousands of aircraft in the air at any one time, each with 2 pilots.
AnkhorDraven 5 months ago
@Ducky888888 It isn't just one man playing; there are thousands of 737s clocking up hundreds of billions of flight hours. Murphy's Law sates if it can go wrong, however unlikely, it eventually will. Tempt the near impossible enough times, billions upon billions of times, and you may just see it happen; or you may not. But this isn't a 'one man buying the only lottery ticket and striking it rich' in reverse; there have been billions, one could have eventually bought the 'impossible' ticket.
s2k997 5 months ago
@s2k997
Yes after all you are right, even if the chance is very little.
Ducky888888 5 months ago
@Ducky888888
very good point ducky,the boeing flight directive for rudder hard-overs doesnt say"increase airspeed until mach 1 and structural failure occurs" they had the altitude,AND TRAINING to try to recover the aircraft,but this didnt happen.
-the cvr audio signature points to an intentional disconnection.
-fdr was also turned off.(as you say,one hell of a coincidence)
-there was NO attempt to all least correct the dive or decrease the airspeed.
-my conclusion-pilot suicide.
heathirving 4 months ago
@Ducky888888 Well, what are the chances that an airplane crashes? Very little.
janstopczyk 4 months ago
@janstopczyk Yes but airplanes crash because of one or two mechanical failures, never 3 at the same time.
Or maybe you can remember one with 3 separate failures at the same time.
Ducky888888 4 months ago
@Ducky888888 I figure airplanes crash because of one failure: failure of the quality standards.
But you're right, at the moment I can recall 3 mechanical failures at the same time. Thing is... there is simply no way to determine whether it was a pilot suicide. We may think so, believe so etc. but that doesn't make is a proof or like some people said "the truth".
janstopczyk 4 months ago
@Ducky888888 i can remember multiple failures , more than 3 [more than 20] . It was air france , struggling through storm it was flight 447 with multiple failures including ap and much more, so it might be possible.!!
Saahil2910 3 months ago
Comment removed
boeingsarethebest 1 year ago
the pilot started a classic split-s, quickest way to bring down a plane
the signature of his aerobatic skills
also some asians are big gamblers
youjib 1 year ago
@youjib shut the fuck up
adicts89 1 year ago
The problem i have with this video is the rudder conclusion. The rudder previously failed on landing, the landings require use of the rudder and the problem was when hot oil was injected into a cold servo motor it would go in the opposite direction.T Their is no reason to use a rudder in mid flight and it was never used prior to that during the flight. The pilot had a history of turning off the CVR, doesnt that raise questions? He left for many minutes prior to the incident...for what?
hairyfatslobpig 1 year ago
I'm very surprised that Greg Feith supported the suicide theory.
737FSPilot 1 year ago
never have a wacko fly a plane
decemberbenjamin 1 year ago
Look at boeing's instruction.
Abouthislife 1 year ago
Idiot jury. Oooo fancy charts. Aaaaah chance to hand corporate america its ass on a plate. Jury fell for it hook line and sinker. Damn fancy LA lawyers.
iiiset 1 year ago
@iiiset
Wait, are you in favor of the pilot suicide theory? Why is that? Just your opinion or "proves"?
Saiyan0X 1 year ago
@Saiyan0X
Whats wrong with the suicide theory?
Ducky888888 1 year ago
@Ducky888888 French fries.....
qazwsx2541 1 year ago
@iiiset Pretty much sums up that ridiculous verdict.
Rapunzel676 8 months ago