John Brown's Body

[Nostalgik85]

GOD BLESS THE UNION! Down with the traitors!

[iducatifan1]

John brown was pro abolitionists 

[Pillboxesghost]

enfranchised blacks of the West Indies.

Slavery indeed, is not a pure and unmixed good. Nor is anything that is human".

Thomas Rufin, 1865

Good luck with your paper -- and remember SLAVERY was an AMERICAN problem!

[Pillboxesghost]

The $5 B spent on the CW (not to mention 620K+ lives squandered) would have purchased the liberty of 4 M slaves FIVE TIMES OVER!

"It was much easier for those who now concemn so sternuously oru toleration of slavery, to capture and enslave teh helpless Africans & BRING THEM HERE; than for us, WITH crime more heinous, to renounce our domination over them & turn them loose to their own descretion and self-destruction. Their fate would soon be that of our native savages or the

Cont above

[AlbertoBarreradotcom]

@Pillboxesghost teh

[Pillboxesghost]

@james96

It was five N. Eng colonies who FLOODED the US with blacks - and invented the vile criminal practice known as the MIDDLE PASSAGE. After slavery prove unprofitable ( & then made illegal) in the North the Yankess DIDN'T FREE their slaves -- they sold them South!

Instead of promoting slave insurrection, had the abolitionists encouraged voluntary compensated emancipation (similar to Brittain) teh Us would ahve experienced a far different middle19th century.

Contd. above

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost One problem: Why the hell does any person deserve compensation for losing their slave? It's not rightfully their slave in the first place. If I kidnap you from your home and make you work for me, do I deserve to be paid off until I agree to let you go, or should I get my ass kicked until I let you go? I have no right to own you in the first place.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

How much REAL US history do you know, sonny? During J. Brown's time NEGROES could not be US citizens.

Slaves were chattel PROPERTY (like cattle & horses). Now you may not like the above (or believe it "fair") -- but it WAS the law!

If I take YOUR PROPERTY (say your car because it polutes too much) -- do you not expect to be compensated for the value of that property?

AMERICAN slavery ended peacefully in Brazil (in 1888?). Agricultural machines made slavery unprofitable!

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost I don't expect to be compensated if my 'property' is something that no person should have the right to own in the first place, no. If I own another human being, I have no legitimate claim to that 'property', no matter what the government says. I should not be compensated for it. I should have my ass kicked until I release the person. Sanction of tyranny by the State does not make it any less tyrannous.

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost As for Brazil, the reason slavery ended there was because the government banned it- first the trade in 1850, then the institution in in 1888. If the government in the US had banned slavery, you know what the South would have done? Exactly what they did to defend slavery- secede, start a war (yes, the Confederacy fired the first shots).

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

CSA fired the first shot.

Who committed the FIRST ACT OF WAR, sonny? Isn't the breaking of a TREATY is an act of war?

Are you capable of finding internet info on Pres. J. Buchannan's agreement with S.C. & City of Charleston

over Ft. Sumter? Must I "rub your nose" in those facts, as with the contraband camp abuses?

Know what G.V. Fox played in the affair @ Sumter?

Guess you construe the above as a "defense" of the CSA?

Know any REAL CW history, Buckwheat?

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost As far as the ignorant argument that economics would have ended the war- it is always going to be more profitable to pay only what it takes to keep someone alive, than it is to pay them market price, which rarely if ever falls below bare subsistence. That's why, across the third world, companies still illegally use enslaved labor- including in Brazil, where over 4,000 slaves were freed by a government crackdown in 2008.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

Talk about IGNORANCE -- I never said economics would have ended any war, now did I sonny?

If you're so concerned about current world slavery , why don't you go (wherever) and liberate 'um?

Since you're so apalled by the treatment of blacks (by Southerners??) answer this: What did Southerner's (as a group) EVER do to blacks that EVEN CAME CLOSE to the to the monsterous N. Eng. crime against humanity known as the "MIDDLE PASSAGE"?

What about MS valley contraband camps?

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost

Ah, my mistake. I meant to say 'end slavery'. My point stands; economics rarely if ever ends slavery.

Why don't I go liberate them? Because I don't have an army. If I did, I would!

Yeah, the middle passage that fed the Southern slave trade was awful. I'm not denying that. I'm not playing the regionalist game here. The entire apparatus of slavery was indefensible- every part of it. It all needed to end. New England did end its slave trade. The South should have, too.

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost As for the contraband camps- what of them? Yeah, it should have been called a 'freedman's camp' or something, because they were people, not contraband, but the camps were a step towards freedom. The slaves got away from their old masters, and became paid workers of the union forces. Should they have been freed immediately, everywhere? Absolutely. But, they were a far cry better than chattel slavery, which is why slaves fled to them.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

Ya don't know much real history sonny. The MS (Mississippi) valley contraband camps were hellholes (Corinth the exception). Those kind hearted abolitions were all right in the middle of 'um and Willie T. Sherman was in charge.

Death rate ran 30% (more than the during middle passage) sonny! Have heard 5 of 6 black children born 1860 - 65 died if in camps!

But they all died FREE, sonny; HALLELUJAH FREE (but dead).

Didn't die on Ole Mean Massas plantation like that!

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost These supposed figures, I am unable to find in any of the material on the camps, even the most rabidly pro-confederate ones, and given your already-demonstrated willingness to distort history to suit your reactionary neoconfederate ideology, I strongly doubt them. The camps became the epicenter of future black communities, and many were sought out by escaping slaves. Even if your figures were true, you seem to have effectively ceded every other point in this discussion.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

I cede you know little REAL CW history and aren't TRYING to find info on the camps.

Two book excerpts - free on the net;

"An American Health Dilemma" by M. Byrd & L.A. Clayton Read Pg. 345 real close, sonny!

"The Freedmen's Bureau and Reconstruction" by P.A. Cimbala & R. M. Miller Intro., Pg. xxii, 25% death rate SONNY!

Google " Facts about U.S. Col. Troops & Slave Refugees of CW Missouri" Scroll down, read Paragaphs 18 & 19.

You lazy or just slow witted, sonny?

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost So a few camps in an otherwise successful program were wracked by abuses. I'll own up to that. I never claimed the Union was perfect, and on principle I oppose all such abuses. Still beats the hell out of never-ending chattel slavery, though. Also, you seem to have already ceded every other point in this discussion. Your only remaining defense of the Confederacy seems to be that the Union did some of the bad things they did. That's a weak defense.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

Well Buckwheat -- my "supposed figures" that YOU were unable to find on pro-CSA sites ARE valid!

Only CW "history" you know is the 50K foot view written by the victor's paid apologists to validate their crimes against the South!

Average 1860's Northerner despised blacks. Abolitonists held blacks were a WEE BIT more human than beasts of the field - thus shouldn't be slaves! "Free soilers" wanted a "lilly white west w/o ANY blacks!

Proud of those racist bigots, ain't you?

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost Better freedom with bigotry than chattel slavery. So, yeah, compared to enslaving an entire race of people, wanting them to be free but not equal is a good damn step. You defend a government that fed the poor southern white into the meatgrinder to defend the interests of the slave-holding gentry, and think that that's totally cool because the abolitionists were ALMOST as bigoted as the people you're defending? Lesser of two evils, man.

[Pillboxesghost]

@CrawdaddyJoe

Defend? -- I defend nothing!

I do delight in pointing out the GROSS HYPOCRISY displayed (to this day) by those

contending the North fought a war to "free tortured black flesh from the slave drivers whip"

or that there can be a "lesser of two evils"!

Some Quaker abolitionists actually threw others from their congregation for suggesting that free blacks should be seated!

Numerous free blacks owned slaves -- were they MORE or LESS evil than white slave owners?

[CrawdaddyJoe]

@Pillboxesghost They were exactly as evil, and more evil than the racists among the abolitionists, who are more evil than a modern anti-racist.

[james9999666]

ALL of my messages with no name posted at the top are aimed for Pillboxesghost's posts.

((Just giving the heads up.))

[gamer12144]

this song is weird because my name is actually john brown

[fox9ninja]

Wikipedia says that this song was written for a John Brown in the army, but my AP US history teacher says that this was written for the original John Brown. Does anyone know the truth or have any opinions?

[mrodrig94]

@fox9ninja I think your AP teacher is right. It was written for the abolitionist John Brown. I wouldn't trust everything Wikipedia says, because people can just edit that info whenever they want. :)

[NHSActor]

"Here in this church, in the presence of these witnesses, I pledge my life to the destruction of Slavery." - John Brown, August 11, 1837, Kent, Ohio.

The argument can be made that Brown, via his Harper's Ferry raid, speeded along the destruction of Slavery with the accelleration of Civil War. While Brown, nor none of his three sons would live to see his vision of a pure, equal America fulfilled, his great-great-great grandchildren can, one of whom is my old English teacher.

[silverfish117]

america has a long way to go before brown's vision can be properly achieved

[james9999666]

@silverfish117 God knows when John Brown's vision will be achieved, but if freedom of ALL slaves were to be achieved, It would be a true turning point in history.

[ComradeMRF]

This isnt the full version its not even half

[james9999666]

@ComradeMRF Where is the full version?

I can't find it. Can you send me it?

[NittanyNation88]

All these confederates a.k.a. anti-Americans should just get over it. if you're still crying over it i'll buy you some tissues and you can just leave this country

[ComradeMRF]

actually CSA was CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA ---REPEAT AMERICA

[RoadCaptainEntertain]

Please try to keep the comments civil. It's ok to disagree (it's called free speech) but if your incapable of uttering intelligent comments vulgarity will get your comments removed. If it's bad enough you will be blocked.

[Pillboxesghost]

VS99 -- Lincoln "saved" the union in the same manner a man "saves his marriage" by beating the wife (who has left him) senseless and dragging her home by the hair!

Sherman (that well known arsonist), Sheridan (for actions in the Shenandoah Valley in winter 1864) and by extension Lincoln (he was their C in C!) are the very definition of WAR CRIMINALS.

Will your attrocious intelligence allow you to make even a semi-literate or halfway intelligent reply.

Show us how educated you are!

[voltshock99]

See, in half the time it took you write all that, I can just call you a fag and not have defend myself. Suck on that nerd.

[Pillboxesghost]

Can't make a knowlegible reply, now can you?

What a pittiful little braindead high school dropout. Bet you flunked English multiple times!

Can you make a complete sentence (with only a couple of mis-spellings)??

Bet you've got a great future planned ! Gonna be, flippin' burgers and mopping out public restrooms -- aren't you.

Give us another one of those well thought out and oh so intellectual responess.

Vulgar idiot!

Has anyone in your family made it off of wellfare yet?

[Pillboxesghost]

Aw -- come on back you trifling, dimwitted, low rent, little buffoon!

Please share more of your immense wisdom with us.

Did your mama find out you were playing around on her 'puter again?? Bet she really snatched a knot in your sorry little ass!!

Looks like you are just incapable of using a WHOLE 500 characters in your pathetic atttempt(s) to reply.

I guess you are just "really limited" in your mental abilities, aren't you?

[voltshock99]

Man, I must have really hit a nerve when I called you a nerd.

[Pillboxesghost]

Sonny....... you're intellectually incapable of "hitting a nerve" of mine. You'd also have to know something about CW (you don't).

I may well be a nerd, you on the other hand -- have absolutely nothing but coarse vulgarity to contribute to this discussion (now do you).

Why don't you go back to listening to rap and playing video games. Allow the grown-up's to have a few uninterupted exchanges on youtube?

Just go away -- at least until you get that social promotion from junior high.

[voltshock99]

Long as you admit your a nerd, I'm happy. Now go back to your books and involuntary celibacy.

[Pillboxesghost]

VS99 -- Learn to read some real history you ignorant little low class cretin!

Facts follow!

Late night of 24 May 1856 "Pottawatomie" J. Brown (& sons) took James P. Doyle and his two adult sons prisoner at their home. Then foully murdered them with broadswords.

They then went to Allen Wilkerson's house and slashed him to death.

Finally after midnight (the bloodthirsty scum) went to James Harris' house; took guest William Sherman prisoner and hacked him to death in cold blood.

[Pillboxesghost]

John Brown was a mentally unbalanced terriorist coward and abolitionist homicidal maniac.

sixlbr descrives him and his "influence" on pre CW tension accurately.

Slavery in the Americas ended peacefully (in Brazil) around 1890. Slavery died out because it became more econonical to farm with machines.

Only A. Lincoln had to distroy half his country and kill 620(+) K of it's citizens to "end" slavery.

And Lincoln was as VILE A RACEIST & white supramacist as ever held office!

[james9999666]

I'm apologize when I say that I STRONGLY disagree on your topic. I am not disagreeing because of the sole fact that I am also black and only a freshmen. I say this because I believe that Abraham Lincoln had believed in abolishing slavery, but as I read from Wikipedia and other websites, He had thought as John Brown a 'misguided fanatic'. Also, (Sorry for cutting this so short.) John Brown killed 6 people in the south for the FREEDOM of slaves.

[james9999666]

cont'd...

This is why he GAVE weapons to the slaves to fight along said him. He wanted to COMPLETELY destroy slavery all in one attempt. Honestly, I would have tried the same thing. I would have been terrified of his death at the age of 59 (An Execution, At the age of 59, I think....If I'm wrong tell me I got some of this off of Wikipedia). The point is... He felt strong for the slaves who deserved rights and freedom. The north didn't benefit much so it was abolished completely from the north

[james9999666]

From what I learned, Abraham Lincoln had given slaves the rights to vote. They counted as 3/5s of a vote during the 3/5 comprimise. (I learned this from one of the top 8 schools in America and wikipedia). He also gave them rights to become free if they had their own documentation. They were then ilegal to be reenslaved once more.

(((Please reply to this to tell me if I researched this project right. I'm going for an A+ on my Abolitionist project)))

[Pillboxesghost]

@james9999666

1st thing you need to learn - slavery was an AMERICAN problem, not a Southern problem.

Amendment to Const. gave freedmen the right to vote. Lincoln was never in favor of giving blacks UNIVERSAL right to vote.

1787 Congressional convention has nothing to do w/ A. Lincoln. 3/5's Compromise was an agreement to count  60% of a state's slaves in apportioning Representatives, Presidential electors and DIRECT TAXES.

Lincoln had nothing to do with the Fugitive Slave laws.

[Pillboxesghost]

@james9999666

Don't think JB EVER armed any slaves (maybe a FEW freeblacks??).

JB failed miserably. There is something HORRID about the CELEBRATION of JB. Slavery was an evil, but Brown was an EVIL, VIOLENT man who hacked men to death (in front of their families) with GOOD CONSCIENCE and RIGHTEOUSNESS ! Anyone making a hero out of a VIGILANTE has a problem!

New Eng. abolitionists were chockfull of REGIONAL SELF-RIGHTOUSNESS and of CONTEMPT for evil others ELSEWHERE.

[Pillboxesghost]

@james9999666

Virtually ALL white Northern abolitionists (Thoreau being an exception) were as opposed to the PRESENSE IN America of Blacks as they were to the institution of slavery.

Most abolitionists viewed their "conversion" (or commitment) as a SACRED moral imperitave. Not unlike the beliefs of current Muslim religious fanatics.

It was this small minority who brought about the "American Armageddon". Most Northerners favoring gradual and compensated emancipation.

[Pillboxesghost]

@james9999666

I do not attack or defend slavery, I do intend to present historical facts.

The entire Southren Culture is now condemned and villainised because of the practice of slavey by a small part (7%) of their ancestors. Only you can get it to 30% is to include their family members.

However, 100% of the Southerners of that era AND THEIR DESCENDANTS are continuously labeled as raceists. evil,white devils and other salacious adjectives.

Contd.

[sixlbr]

contd...

The carnage of the Civil War beggars description. 625,000 soldiers died in a country of 31.4 million. That would be comparable to a death toll of 6,102,034 in the US of 2009--a number that is simply staggering. The US death toll in the Vietnam War was 58,209, and we are still suffering from the political and cultural fallout of that conflict. Try to imagine 106 Vietnam wars. That was the scope of the Civil War.

[sixlbr]

contd...

In all the world, only in the US was slavery ended by wholesale slaughter rather than by compensated emancipation. John Brown's terrorist activities in Kansas practically guaranteed the slavery issue would be settled by bloodshed. This was the greatest tragedy in American history.

[sixlbr]

Indhegoh wrote: "Anyone that denounces John Brown as 'evil' or a 'terrorist' is either evil themselves, ignorant, or profoundly stupid."

The above opinion demonstrates ignorance and radicalism.

Who was the first victim of the raid at Harper's Ferry? Shepard Hayward, a baggage porter shot by Brown's men. Hayward was a free black man, but was hardly the only ironic casualty in John Brown's war to free the slaves. Many innocents had died in "bloody Kansas" at the hands of Brown's fanatics.

[Indhegoh]

Anyone that denounces John Brown as "evil" or a "terrorist" is either evil themselves, ignorant, or profoundly stupid. For the people that label him as a "radical" should realize that yesterday's "radical" is today's "conservative". I think that it's more "radical" to support racialist chattel slavery and an aversion to universal human rights than it is to support someone that fought against these evil and preposterous ideas. If it wasn't for him the problem was only going to get worse.

[kolbecop]

Happy Birthday John Brown

[zeke1564]

hail john brown!!! he was a good man he may of killed but it was for wat was right.and if wernt for him the country wouldent be where it is today he was a verry good man but he had a hatred for slavery and helpped free the slaves in america and he did his part in improving the usa. hail john brown!!!

[alenz95]

a good man thats crap he wanted to kill thousands of innocent people

[ScotlandForever0]

John Brown was a terrible man. He was a radical who killed people and had no right to. He was a major contributor to the growing tensions of the U.S. at the time. I don't know why in the world why people glorify this man.

[izilove]

The reason he was and still is glorified is because he fought for injustices in America. Southerners killed slaves and free blacks over and over again. And the reason he killed people was because the southern radicals did so first to the Anti-Slavery people whose only crime was their belief and they lived in Kansas.

[kingcal06]

He was a radical. He killed people. He contributed to the "growing tensions of the U.S"...And he helped to bring an end to the system whereby young babies were born into lives of slavery, rape, murder, depredation and inhumaity.

Radicalism is the only option in these conditions.

[capriciouscow]

Actually, it was originally a Christian revival song during the Second Great Awakening.

[glee7112]

This song was a Union marching song. There were various oral versions, but the lyrics were first published in 1861.

Battle Hymn of the Republic was written in 1862.

[MasterEled]

this was made before battle hymn of the republic, and was a confederate song.

[RoadCaptainEntertain]

Actually there was a Federal and Confederate version before the Battle Hymn of the Republic.

[pytko3]

The Federal version was battle hymn of the republic.

[just2w4tch]

Dixie was written in New York as part of a Broadway play making fun of the south... how do you like them apples!

[MasterEled]

Au contraire, you have been misinformed, the author of "Dixie" is unknown it has been credited to a few people but many people claimed to be the original writers of the song.

[SamHagagaga]

@MasterEled You are correct about one thing. However, it was not a Confederate song.

[MasterEled]

@SamHagagaga You believe it to be a Union song? How do you figure?

[SamHagagaga]

@MasterEled John Brown was VERY unpopular in the south, so a song praising him would naturally not be a Confederate song.

[MasterEled]

@SamHagagaga It is a song about him "a-moulderin'" in the grave at a time when he was still alive whilst facetiously stating "but his soul goes marching on." They were mocking him by singing a sardonic song and essentially calling his plight all he would have left when he died. Make more sense to you now?

[SamHagagaga]

@MasterEled It's about how he's dead but his cause still lives on.

One common verse to the song includes the words "we'll hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree."

[SamHagagaga]

@MasterEled And the authorship is attributed to Thomas Brigham Bishop, who was a Union soldier.

[3rdconfederate]

Does anyone have the Confederate version?

[TheVeelaChicks712]

wait, is john brown's body and battle hymn of the republic song?

[elvislennon]

Yes and no. The tune was writtne by an unknown person and started in a church. This lyrics was written after the little private "war" of John Brown about freeing the slaves. He was tried and hanged later. This song was sung by the Union army. Julia Howe wrote Battle Hymn to the exact same tune and use influence from John Brown's Body. From John Brown's Body - "His Soul Goes Marching On!". Battle Hymn - "His Truth Goes Marching On!". They are two different songs but uses the exact same tune.

[redleg269]

actually the words to Battle Hymn of the Republic were written to the tune of John Brown"s Body.

[Kirschkatze4]

Wonderful! This is absolutly fantastic! I like the video! It fits really well! :)

[14691]

John Brown, pride of Kansas, pride of the Union!