Kindergarten Ethics for Grown-Ups

[grantsinmypants2]

GWB can't understand why anyone would expect him to apologize. Afterall, what he was doing was advancing the same altruistic agenda that both the Left and the Right fundamentally agree is the good. The figureheads are different - the Right has it's "virtuous" man hanging dead from a cross for the sake of sinners while the Left has it's competents being stripped of their wealth for the sake of homeless neurotics - but it's all the same: self-sacrifice is the good...

[grantsinmypants2]

... of course GWB failed to consistently practice self-sacrifice. He was, at times, a litle too wrapped up in his Greco-Roman-Enlightenment delusions about the superiority of Western Civilization and capitalism over collectivism - but that's to be expected!

He thought "you guys on the Left pretend to be reasonable sometimes too. I don't open my mouth and call you hypocrites when you try to paint your redistribution programs as reclamation programs."...

[grantsinmypants2]

... Azrienoch, I don't understand why you would imply that GWB should continue to be disliked just because he did bad things on purpose. It's not very self-sacrificial of you to want to punish wrong doers. Keep those Enlightenment tendencies down please. It's a little too reasonable for my tastes.

[SpiderWhiteYT]

@grantsinmypants2 The poor are homeless neurotics? Are you serious?

[grantsinmypants2]

@SpiderWhiteYT SpiderWhiteYT asks: "The poor are homeless neurotics? Are you serious? Translation: He reads my comment, understand its point, cannot bear to be so clearly understood and reduced to such simple-minded nonsense, and so to block out the knowledge that gave him that uncomfortable feeling, and thus to make the feeling itself abate for a moment, he looks for something, ANYTHING - no matter how small and irrelevant to the thrust of the point - that he can take issue with.

[oldhacks]

I accidentally watched this video

[disasterpastor45]

Yes, every bad thing Bush did was on purpose.

[Cricket773]

Yep

[xd1rtx]

it damn sure looks that way,, i often wander if history will teach, the duechebag W. or the W. from the movie,,,, i'm votin duechebag

[nofalltoofar]

What I got from this is "It's better to do the wrong thing knowingly and still not admit it than to do the wrong thing out of ignorance and not admit to being wrong because you are unaware that you did wrong."

[azrienoch]

Sure, go with that.

[nofalltoofar]

It's not a question of whether what I took was wrong. In both the movie AND real life, he didn't admit he was wrong. In the movie, he was painted as knowingly doing the wrong thing whereas in real life, he's suggested to simply be ignorant by the guy who posted this. So this video really is arguing that doing the wrong thing while knowing better is superior to doing the wrong thing because you don't know better.

[Trollschool]

It is superior from the point of view of reason. From the point of view of instinct (and here "point of view" becomes explicitly metaphorical) everything is indifferent except whatever gets your gene package transferred to the next living organism.

[azrienoch]

nofalltoofar, that comment was for Skittles. The comment for you was, "Sure, go with that." I am that guy in the video.

[ArtMusicRepeat]

thanks, you taught me how to spell kindergarten correctly.

[shilohwillcome]

totally disagree, but post more videos.

[ShortbusMooner]

I could never feel sorry for him, whether he owns up to mistakes or not. He still pisses me off, when I see him walking free. And, Darth Cheney.

[SkittlesLoli]

I disagree Az.

I've made mistakes that I haven't felt bad about or owned up to, but that doesn't mean that I did it on purpose.

Example time!

Just because a driver accidentally backs into a parked car because they thought the brake was the gas, and doesn't leave a note(owning up to the mistake) doesn't mean that they did it on purpose, and it doesn't mean they regret it either. Shit happens.

[azrienoch]

I said that it SAYS you did it on purpose.  You'll never find me muddling about in actualities.

[Arosukir6]

I don't think "mistakes" in this sense means accidents like that...the point here seems to be about choice.

If you make mistakes because you made a bad decision, then not owning up makes your actions seem meant to bring about the results they did.

Take deciding to start a war to bring democracy. The endeavor fails, leaving chaos and death in that country. In not admitting that the war was a bad idea, you make it seem as though you're fine with the result.

I could me misinterpreting though.

[SkittlesLoli]

You bring up a point.

You're saying that it appears that it was done on purpose. Az was saying that it WAS on purpose.

He said.

"If you make a mistake, and you don't own up to it, what you're saying is the very bad thing that you did on accident was on purpose."

I know plenty of people who wont own up to a mistake to your face because they don't want to admit they were wrong. That doesn't mean they did it on purpose, or that they regret it, just that they have too much pride to admit it.

[azrienoch]

You're wrong, I'm not saying that it was on purpose. I'm saying, whether it was or was not on purpose, if you don't own up to it your actions say that you did it on purpose. From your quote of me: "if you don't own up to it, what you're saying is..." That quote does not go: "if you don't own up to it, it was on purpose."

[Trollschool]

Fuck Bush. I guess you really had to grow up down here and be at least tangentially involved with these families to know what's going on. The elder B. I at least had some respect for because of his redirection of some Reagan Cali. bullshit - but Jr. was fucked - from Iraq to Cheney to Economy, he was a washout. Now Cheney's about to trash him in his new book because the pentagon wouldn't let that fucker reduce the planet to ashes - come on, Bush Jr. was Worst. Period.

[Trollschool]

Also I don't want this comment to seem to suggest that Cheney was a modifying factor. Cheney had been somewhat contained by Bush elder, but his psycopathic ideas were allowed reign by Bush Jr. to a terrible extent. That a reconsideration of those ideas is considered a mistake by the right wing media should be noted by anyone interested in the future of the planet, or the future of rationality in general.

[sylvestermeow]

I feel like I am having something taught to me by a latter-day Mr. Rogers. Haven't seen our loquacious and prodigious philosopher for a while. Jeff's little point would be right, if Bush had enough insight to think that far into it. I do not hate Geo. Bush. But I realize where his mental prowess ends. Where I think that is, I shall not say. peace

[sonata1992]

Utterly off-topic: wow Jeff, Nice new look XD

[Brandt761]

Nah, his old look was way better. But then I like to keep it simple. Who needs weird hair when you're freaking Azrienoch?

[azrienoch]

I voted Nader.

[aPaThEiSt]

If only he won.

[tetsubo57]

Bush regrets nothing. Nor do any of the other amoral gits from his administration. He is the worse President within the past 100 years.

[tetsubo57]

Obama is still a better choice than a McCain/Palin administration. That would have destroyed our nation.

But then again, Bobo the chimp would have been a better choice than a McCain/Palin ticket.

[premed2]

... or you're not willing to admit your mistake. but i guess what you're saying is people will tend to discount, or not consider, that possibility, or worse?

(haven't seen "W") do the emotional qualities of the film contaminate your conclusion? or is this literally Kindergarten Ethics for Grown-Ups? that's it, isn't it? :P

[Blews4Blesus]

Wow. What's up with the new hairdo? BTW I agree with your assessment of the movie "W".

[Brandt761]

Heh...kinda makes sense...

[666lordbyron666]

Americans : never make the first mistake twice in 5 years but repeat it after every 10.

[EVHisgodyoumuppet]

Dubya was a great film, I saw it recently.

It doesn't deal with the political aspects of Bush in any real way, Craig Unger's the best person to read if you want to know about that, but as a film it was excellent

[samuelmichaud]

(video comment, and not conversational reply xD)

Yeah Toucher. I have to agree shortly.

I like how you dig besides the bait of propaganda.

Well done.

*burp* sorry

must go now, chEERS!

[LanceDirk]

Or you could just be in complete denial that anything bad is even happening.

[xwidget]

"In the second term, he felt Bush was moving away from him," said a participant in the recent gathering, describing Cheney's reply. "He said Bush was shackled by the public reaction and the criticism he took. Bush was more malleable to that. The implication was that Bush had gone soft on him, or rather Bush had hardened against Cheney's advice. ...

washingtonpost(.)com/wp-dyn/co­ntent/article/2009/08/12/AR200­9081203306.html

[marniespeaks]

why did Oliver Stone portray him in this way?

anyone?

[azrienoch]

Maybe Stone just isn't very good at making actually challenging stories. As in, he can't make a story where the main character isn't someone you can relate with.

[StevenErnest]

I haven't seen W., it sounds rather simplistic. Stone generally paints in broad strokes, but in Nixon, he presented a tragic fgiure, human, with many faults and weaknesses.

[azrienoch]

Oh, it's good, it's just not challenging or risky, as far as the medium is concerned.

[SomeBSUTubeName]

Awkward!

[SomeBSUTubeName]

Referring to Bush's presidency.

[marniespeaks]

Bush is a dry drunk

[matrix2k3]

AGREED

[vclamp]

All the many bad things done by GWB were extremely predictable. As dumb as he was, he was not as dumb as he seemed. Then there is the real problem of the idiot masses that failed to oppose his stupidity. A million morons can be wrong; they usually are. :-(

[vclamp]

During the coup of November 2000, GWB had the weird position of acting completely entitled to being handed the office because his family's friends dictated as such, while also occasionally sounding like he really did not want the job to which he was being appointed.

Rome Fell, and the first dark age resulted...

[crazycat1984]

I agree 100%. Excellent little video.

[CousinoMacul]

You're right Jeff. I need to own up to my mistakes. A few videos ago when I left a comment calling you a pseudo-punk, emo, faux intellectual, freaky looking, jive talking, weirdo, motherfucker ... that was just a mistake on my part.

:-P

[StationaryTransient]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for posting a video on this account.

[azrienoch]

You know, you COULD just put up with subbing to the other account... ;)

[brouhajoe]

I remember talking with you about this when you'd first seen the film, and I think I mentioned this then, but you should really see Journeys With George if you haven't already.

As for the real GWB vs. the movie version of him, well...you know me well enough to know I don't give him the benefit of the doubt that you're giving him. I hate the fact that history will tell the story of the past decade much the same way you did here, with it all being a misguided, but well intentioned mistake.

[brouhajoe]

We know that what he and the others in his admin. did was calculated, on many different counts. We have the Hydrocarbons laws privatizing control of 2/3 of Iraq's oil production that he forced down their throats under military occupation, we have the editing out through classification of all of the nuance and caveats in the 2002 NIE, we have the Downing St. Memos...and on and on.

[brouhajoe]

This image of GWB as a naive fool, manipulated by his father's men, who just wanted to bring peace and democracy to the middle east...and all the rest...it's the best redemption story they could muster for a character who grew more and more disliked in the final years of his power.

[brouhajoe]

It's the sugar coated American President tragedy fiction that our kids will read in their grade school history books...but it's no more a true history of the time, or the man, than Washington Irving's Columbus fiction...which unfortunately our kids will read in that same history book as fact :/

[azrienoch]

I don't agree at all. It won't be written as a mistake. Too many people hate him, hate what he did, for anything else to be written in those history books. (I mean, with the exception of 100 years down the line, where stories are so watered down that Christopher Columbus was a great explorer.) When kids in more focused courses read about it, dilution is the only grace that will be given W., for precisely the reason that he didn't admit it as a mistake (regardless of whether it was).

[brouhajoe]

I hope you're right about that, but I see it happening already. The hate you talk about only feeds the illusion. Many of the people who hated him viewed him through his "bumbling idiot" caricature, which feeds the idea of him being manipulated by the Rumsfelds and the Cheneys he surrounded himself with, rather than being a complicit and indeed active participant in the more greedy or malicious aspects of the plans.

[brouhajoe]

This idea is already persistent in the mainstream stereotype of Bush, fed by people like Maher and the like.

I agree that more focused courses will delve deeper, but I fear they'll only be fighting against the ideas placed there in the grade school education I was talking about.

[azrienoch]

Well, I guess what I was after here was more an illustration of apologies as rhetorical tactics that require a sacrifice of humility, but do more to shift blame than insisting you're innocent. Something else is always said, especially when you don't say anything.

[brouhajoe]

Oh yeah, I get that, it was just the context of the point that sent me off on a tangential rant...sorry about that:)

[mahyarmohaghegh]

nice hair man

[choji17]

never thought of it that way.

[Metalstr8jacket]

Thumbs up my friend!!

[RockSymphonyLove]

YAY! New video! It's been a long while.

[chikenshitconformist]

first? jk. i miss you azrienoch! :(