I have a very different philosophy that is derived from the same central principle that life=suffering. Perhaps it will help you to inspire purpose and meaning in your own life. Let me know what you think.
It's the video on my channel called "The Meaning of Life".
only the strong survive to pass on genes that carry on the future , weak minded people die out anyways , that is the nature of nature weather you like it or not , life is to death as death is to life , and in the end nothing lasts forever but only new beginnings . that is why pro life anti life need each other, life is to life as death is to death , perception is only your own perception , a concept of what you see , feel , love , hate , pain , and pleasure ,but in your case hang in there :D
oh this is coming from someone at the end of his life speaking from the perspective of his own existence. I can find people who are very happy with their life and feel that life is whatever you make it. I think we need to be intelligent in how we go about things, maybe regulating reproduction slightly.
Realistically, you can't possibly achieve your goal since anyone in the human race who agrees with you will be the first group to become extinct which is where all the greedy German and Russian Socialists seem to be heading in the next century, unlike Texans, Africans, Hindus and Muslims who are all pro-growth.
@Texasjim2007 You are letting your fear of being overtaken by other ethnic groups cloud the reality of the situation. Antinatalism is not a comfortable solution; that doesn't make it wrong and evil. Life can be extended, but for what purpose? What is the endgame? It's making the best out of a bad situation. It is not necessary by any measure. Oh, and if you think he's serving Satan, aren't you glad that he doesn't want to bring children into a world that is corrupted by the devil?
@Texasjim2007 I agree: the greedy selfish Texans, Africans, Hindus and Muslims who are all pro-growth. It is impossible to maintain infinite growth on a finite planet, constrained by finite oil and anthropogenic global warming (AGW).
Anti-vegan breeding anti-socialists are unpatriotic anti-Western scum.
Only vegan atheist pro-socialists (or, at least, vegan atheists) who fight freeloading banksters and corporate welfarists deserve to breed and continue on earth.
@Texasjim2007 Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible. Period.
I'm all for technology. But technology will not get around that fact.
Selfish breeders don't care about their children, because all breeders necessarily murder their children, by forcing them into a world where they KNOW they will die someday.
I would personally feel no sense of remorse about slitting your throat and feeding you to the vultures, being a retired professional killer for the military. You're an evil little good for nothing son of a bitch who wants to kill everyone and everything I value enough to sacrifice my life for and it's merely your impotence as a screwball that saves you. If I took you seriously I'd kill you.
My wife and I never personally had children but anyone who wants the human race extinct should just commit suicide and go to Hell. Rationally those who have children are the only ones truly capable of saving all life on Earth from dying off in the end and only those who help them survive are in any way good and all threats to human survival are inherently evil monsters serving Satan.
@Texasjim2007 Life is a need that doesnt need to exist. Life is spilling milk and then having to spend an entire existence trying to clean it up just to suffer and die at the end for absolutely no reason, no accomplishment. Theres nothing to be done here, nothing to be produced, nowhere to go. Life is a constant battle over energy for no good reason. I have 5 siblings that would be here but my parents decided not to have 4 more. They arent crying somewhere wishing they came into existence.
Anybody who is against the survival of the human race should kill themselves or be killed, ground up, and used for dog food to prevent you from wasting any further resources humanity could better use for its survival and growth without which all life on Earth is inevitably doomed anyhow so pointless to worry about.
Are you Christian? because you got a cross on your shelf? Have you read the bible and done research about why we suffer, die, illness e.g? I agree that people are stupid enough addiction of giving life well the earth is population, we need to stop with this hunger of wanting just because you use them for caring. :/
its 6 am dark and cold and im awaken by the most annoying sound in the world. time to be a slave for 8 hours. This way i can buy food and gas so i can surivive another day to do it again. Someone has to do the rich persons work.The mornings in a work week feel like groundhog day in hell sometimes. And thats just work, survival lets not even talk about the miserable things and all the times of suffering.This is just bullshit. This is the american dream too hahaha! Well that brightens the day.
I realize that most people are not anti-natalists, but a logical person would conclude that having one or two children is ample. Overpopulation only leads to misery.
I realize that most people are not anti-natalists, but a logical person would conclude that having one or two children is ample. Overpopulation only leads to misery.
Here is my opinion: antinatalism is a philosophy for a coward. Only a coward can take such an idea seriously, a weak person. I believe in reincarnation and that the purpose of human existence is conscientiousness-related evolution. It works for me. I do think that we need to lower our population via birth control to a lower number because of the lack of resources, and keep it at a certain level let's say two billion. But it's to save humanity, not destroy it.
It seems to me that far too many people dismiss "supernatural" possibilities simply on account of their own preexisting ideological loyalties and without seriously researching the available claims. I thought you might be open to viewing the following interview. If you can dismantle this man's claims, or provide some alternative explanation for the corroborating testimonies of his patients (i.e. wish-fulfilling products of a collective unconscious), I'd love to hear it: watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo
I CAN ONLY ASK YOU THIS . WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HAPPY THEY WERE BORN . BECAUSE IM GLAD MY MOM AND DAD HAD ME . MY LIFE HAS HAD UP AND DOWNS . BUT IM STILL GLAD TO BE HERE . I LOVE ALL PEOPLE . AND I DO FEEL EVERY ONES PAIN . BUT THAT IS APART OF LFE ! SO ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO BE THERE FOR EACHOTHER . BUT PEOPLE ALL WAYS WANT TO PLAY GOD . HOW ARE YOU GONNA TELL GOD . THAT HIS PLAN IS WRONG . BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING . JIM JONES PART 2 . HERE THEY COME . WATCH OUT .
@nizzobeats With all due respect, your happy life may have been purchased at the expense of third-world countries, whose resources have been exploited so that you can live in relative comfort. Your experience is not separate from theirs, and does not act to mitigate theirs, but rather, your advantages appear to directly depend upon their disadvantages. To answer your 2nd objection: How do you know this man isn't playing his part in God's greater plan? And aren't you "playing God" by procreating?
@Silenus6 what the powers of the nation has done is on them . and if they have done any wrong . then there judgement will come . but when it comes to living here on earth . it is what what we choose . how also how we dill with life . but you say that i am free . but being a african american . we dont realy get to in joy the full power of american freedom . so i no what it means to suffer . but even no i lost my mother , my father , and my little sister . i am not bitter because God is good .
It wasn't a pun: etymonline. com/index. php?term=sentient "sentient 1630s, "capable of feeling," from L. sentientem (nom. sentiens) "feeling," prp. of sentire "to feel" (see sense)."
@theantinatalist "Jim has said [...] the cruelty of nature needs to be addressed as well."
Have antinatalists addressed the possibility of humans intentionally directing a large comet to impact the earth and thus save sentient life from the continued supposed horror of sense? That gives me an idea: perhaps the movement could be given a catchy name, such as Stop Making Sense: google. com/search?q=talking+heads+stop+making+sense
@theantinatalist "No philanthropic antinatalist that I've ever come across has thought that it would be a good idea to let humans die out"
So, the opening statement of this video is wrong?: 0:08 "the philosophy of antinatalism, which is the belief that we need to stop breeding and let the race die out through attrition."
@theantinatalist "Physical things which are most likely inseparable from our inherited evolutionary physiology and psychology.
Elimination of suffering and especially psychological deprivation without the elimination of sentience itself is in the realm of transhumanist science fiction"
"All we're really doing is breeding generation upon generation upon generation of fodder for a vicarious future that none of us will ever experience" I love it ; - ) Sounds rather selfish though doesn't it? I mean, isn't that exactly what people do everyday? Isn't that part of what gives life meaning? Are there not people right now living in a vicarious time from generations past such as of the abolitionists?
Our happiness is based on rational action - action in congruence with reality. In any fight with reality, put your money on reality. However, in a world today where SUBJECTIVITY and HEDONISM are the arbiters of truth, cause and effect work against us. In severe cases, we become unhappy, dependent and we suffer.
Holding that the solution is to diminish life is stupid and evasive.
The real problem lies in the predominant ignorant philosophies of your culture. And it CAN be changed.
@dreadrocksean What are you going on about? No "philosophy" has created the conditions of life on Earth. Antinatalism has nothing to do with ideologies. It has to do with the nature of life on Earth.
#1 is the basis for any morality. If we were indestructible, there would be no need for values since there would be nothing to gain or lose. It is in the face of an alternative that act on these value - the ultimate alternative being death.
#2 exists as the short term version on the #1 alternative. Suffering is an indication that we are moving toward our demise and prompts us to take action to reverse the trend.
Finally someone who is intelligent. Why is sanity so rare these days? Life is logicall not a gift. If you want to go the God route, it's a test. If not, it's just cruel suffering, and a suffering humanity as a whole empowers and puts upon itself and other species. We should stop procreating for at least 40 years. Not stop having sex, but stop having so many pregnancies and births. We have ways to circumvent these problems now.
Thank God not all share your cynical outlook u seem 2 have on procreation & life. U seem to hav that 'doomsday' 'athiest' thing going on. No1 has all the answers, yer no different. I'm not a parent but I would never preach against ppl doing what they've been doing for 1000s of yrs. Life as suffering is a matter of opinion. I think many would consider non-existence a worse punishment than the human condition. + u wouldn't be here to make this video if your parents shared your antinatalism opinion
I have subscribed already and will look out for your post. I must admit this will be though since you have kids. I don't have kids yet, but I don't see any reason to. Metamorphh, you comment about being a minister made me smile because I had a similar upbringing and found everything to be false and a sham. I must admit I feel deflated, lied to for the better part of my life. I'm now trying to pick myself and look for explanations how i can lead my life.
Hi Metamorphhh, I'm glad I came across your video. This is something I have struggled with for while. Everything started falling into place when I read the works of Arthur Schoppenhauer. I had lots of depression seeing the victims of war, earthquakes, etc, and I ask why all this and to what end? However, I'm under a lot of pressure from family and colleagues at the office to get married and have kids. I don't know how to handle this yet (but hopefully will find a way). May have to leave my job.
redshift: However, unless you're claiming that evolved intelligence is completely divorced from some degree of correspondence with the real world, there are still truths to be had, and contemplated upon. Also, a negative reaction to suffering is not a learned behavior, and my opposition is just an conscious-based extrapolation of that more primordial reaction. Best, jim
@metamorphhh i realize that a negative reaction to suffering is not a learned behavior, but the strong repulsion to suffering that antinatalism requires is learned. Suffering is part of a healthy life. You can't feel joy without feeling suffering. Too much of it and you will hate life, that is true. But you still need it. "there is neither happiness nor misery in the world, there is only the comparison of one state with another" Alexandre Dumas
you are a result of chemistry. Your strong opposition to suffering is a learned value. However, the need to breed, eat and (all the other stuff) is far stronger than this value to avoid the possible suffering. futile? Maybe, but this seems to be somewhat egocentric view. Yes, life is pointless if you look at it from the human perspective. I would be naive to say I could understand other perspective than my own. All I know is that I am part of a universe where my existence plays a minute part.
"Strong opposition" to suffering (i.e. compassion and empathy) is largely learned through reason. It serves no evolutionary purpose to care about the animal you may have had for dinner. So the "learning" isn't a criticism.
Then you go on to defend nature with no justification other than false humility.
Life is pointless from any perspective you like. Purpose does not exist anywhere in the universe, only reasons why things happen.
@justdragonflies I agree that life is pointless from any perspective you like. but you are the one who is demanding some grand meaning, saying the human race should end just because you don't see enough meaning in it today. My point is that we are part of nature and you can't seperate yourself from that just by thoughts alone. You admit you won't kill yourself because you are already hooked by the instincts nature gave you. fine. why label that as a negative?
I think it would be objectively better for living things if they had never come into existence because a non-existent being cannot be deprived. This has nothing to do with meaning. Mr. Nobody isn't sad that he doesn't get to have sex or take or dump or work 50 hours a week or witness his loved ones dying or experience any other of life's miracles.
Putting an end to sentience is just the logical conclusion of sympathy.
We separate ourselves from nature all the time when it comes to medicine technology, luxuries etc. Nature is our enemy not our friend.
I label my addiction to life as a negative because I didn't consent to be here, and neither did you. Things are the way they are, but I don't have to like it.
@justdragonflies technology, medicine and luxury is nature. It's just the nature that was a byproduct of human existence. no you don't seperate yourself from nature, you are deceiving yourself. but anyway, if you ask someone, "would you rather you have never been born at all?" and they reply "no", well then that is an indication that at least they feel it was a net positive that they exist. as others have said, it is impossible to accurately quantify quality of life.
@justdragonflies "I think it would be objectively better for living things if they had never come into existence because a non-existent being cannot be deprived."
Where do you get the objectivity in "better"? What's your argument for that?
"Putting an end to sentience is just the logical conclusion of sympathy"
What do u mean? Why don't u put an and to suffering? Mental and physical pain are physical things.
Do you have personal reason for wanting all life extinguished other than suffering?
This argument is an autofail. It is in fact the epitome thereof. If you truly feel this way, kill yourself and be done with it. Just by you making videos on the topic proves that you are being inconsistent at the very least, hypocritical at best, and a chickenshit soapbox rider in any case.
@jason666king How is he being hypocritical? His concern is primarily with reducing unnecessary suffering in the world. If he killed himeself then he would be bringing a great deal of pain and suffering to the very people who love him the most.
Killing oneself doesn't end the existence of suffering.
Antinatalists and negative utilitarians are primarily concerned with putting an end to suffering so it would be inconsistent and hypocritical (though understandable) for them to do so. A rational person will realise that my suffering is no less real or horrific than anyone else's.
Your rhetoric is infantile and vulgar in its lack of logic.
[continued] Setting up a process in the brain like "don't defend your beliefs -- test them for glitches" would ideally solve all such cognitive contradictions. The more receptive we are to new ideas (initially, anyway), the less likely that bad mental processes of that sort will increase suffering.
It seems like those who've already had children are most likely to suffer from cognitive dissonance upon confronting the logic of the so-called "anti-natalist" premise. By admitting to themselves that reproducing is irresponsible and in direct opposition to a core component of their value system -- consent -- they feel that they're admitting that their children shouldn't exist, which also conflicts with their values.
I'm not always sad; I think it's just the droopy eyes (never noticed just how droopy they are before today): My children are generally happy, though there's no guarantee that will always be the case. I do what I can for them, and worry a lot, knowing that all the worrying in the world won't save them. Or me. But I do what I can. I appreciate your encouragement :)
I agree with what you said and I too believe that bringing humans into a world of suffering and eternal death most likely is wrong. But I notice you seem very sad. How are your children? With my decision I am a very happy person concerning this, knowing that I will not be responsible for causing my kids' suffering, but like I said on your other video, not everyone can be childfree.You should be happy knowing that you realised this and just be the best you can to your family.
well, i think the matter of fact is that each person could choose to be child free. and also, you are already responsible for your child's suffering because you brought them here. @artep2122
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ROCK ON, metamorphhh! YES YES!
Fucking breeders need to stop forcing their beliefs and kids onto those of us who are already here.
mphello 5 days ago
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I have a very different philosophy that is derived from the same central principle that life=suffering. Perhaps it will help you to inspire purpose and meaning in your own life. Let me know what you think.
It's the video on my channel called "The Meaning of Life".
jlhe2011 1 month ago
only the strong survive to pass on genes that carry on the future , weak minded people die out anyways , that is the nature of nature weather you like it or not , life is to death as death is to life , and in the end nothing lasts forever but only new beginnings . that is why pro life anti life need each other, life is to life as death is to death , perception is only your own perception , a concept of what you see , feel , love , hate , pain , and pleasure ,but in your case hang in there :D
lorndarken 2 months ago
I agree with everything that was said in this video, but how can people deal with the awful truth (aside from committing suicide)?
schwul1956 3 months ago
it sounds like you lost people dear to you and are depressed.
1upguy0 3 months ago
oh this is coming from someone at the end of his life speaking from the perspective of his own existence. I can find people who are very happy with their life and feel that life is whatever you make it. I think we need to be intelligent in how we go about things, maybe regulating reproduction slightly.
1upguy0 3 months ago
Realistically, you can't possibly achieve your goal since anyone in the human race who agrees with you will be the first group to become extinct which is where all the greedy German and Russian Socialists seem to be heading in the next century, unlike Texans, Africans, Hindus and Muslims who are all pro-growth.
Texasjim2007 3 months ago
@Texasjim2007 You are letting your fear of being overtaken by other ethnic groups cloud the reality of the situation. Antinatalism is not a comfortable solution; that doesn't make it wrong and evil. Life can be extended, but for what purpose? What is the endgame? It's making the best out of a bad situation. It is not necessary by any measure. Oh, and if you think he's serving Satan, aren't you glad that he doesn't want to bring children into a world that is corrupted by the devil?
chinngis83 1 month ago
@Texasjim2007 I agree: the greedy selfish Texans, Africans, Hindus and Muslims who are all pro-growth. It is impossible to maintain infinite growth on a finite planet, constrained by finite oil and anthropogenic global warming (AGW).
Anti-vegan breeding anti-socialists are unpatriotic anti-Western scum.
Only vegan atheist pro-socialists (or, at least, vegan atheists) who fight freeloading banksters and corporate welfarists deserve to breed and continue on earth.
mphello 4 weeks ago
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@Texasjim2007 Infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible. Period.
I'm all for technology. But technology will not get around that fact.
Selfish breeders don't care about their children, because all breeders necessarily murder their children, by forcing them into a world where they KNOW they will die someday.
mphello 5 days ago
I would personally feel no sense of remorse about slitting your throat and feeding you to the vultures, being a retired professional killer for the military. You're an evil little good for nothing son of a bitch who wants to kill everyone and everything I value enough to sacrifice my life for and it's merely your impotence as a screwball that saves you. If I took you seriously I'd kill you.
Texasjim2007 3 months ago
My wife and I never personally had children but anyone who wants the human race extinct should just commit suicide and go to Hell. Rationally those who have children are the only ones truly capable of saving all life on Earth from dying off in the end and only those who help them survive are in any way good and all threats to human survival are inherently evil monsters serving Satan.
Texasjim2007 3 months ago
@Texasjim2007 Life is a need that doesnt need to exist. Life is spilling milk and then having to spend an entire existence trying to clean it up just to suffer and die at the end for absolutely no reason, no accomplishment. Theres nothing to be done here, nothing to be produced, nowhere to go. Life is a constant battle over energy for no good reason. I have 5 siblings that would be here but my parents decided not to have 4 more. They arent crying somewhere wishing they came into existence.
CantWeedThis 3 months ago 3
@CantWeedThis Great comment!
mphello 4 weeks ago
Anybody who is against the survival of the human race should kill themselves or be killed, ground up, and used for dog food to prevent you from wasting any further resources humanity could better use for its survival and growth without which all life on Earth is inevitably doomed anyhow so pointless to worry about.
Texasjim2007 3 months ago
Are you Christian? because you got a cross on your shelf? Have you read the bible and done research about why we suffer, die, illness e.g? I agree that people are stupid enough addiction of giving life well the earth is population, we need to stop with this hunger of wanting just because you use them for caring. :/
floralauraproactive 4 months ago
its 6 am dark and cold and im awaken by the most annoying sound in the world. time to be a slave for 8 hours. This way i can buy food and gas so i can surivive another day to do it again. Someone has to do the rich persons work.The mornings in a work week feel like groundhog day in hell sometimes. And thats just work, survival lets not even talk about the miserable things and all the times of suffering.This is just bullshit. This is the american dream too hahaha! Well that brightens the day.
CantWeedThis 4 months ago
I realize that most people are not anti-natalists, but a logical person would conclude that having one or two children is ample. Overpopulation only leads to misery.
RetroJenny 5 months ago
I realize that most people are not anti-natalists, but a logical person would conclude that having one or two children is ample. Overpopulation only leads to misery.
RetroJenny 5 months ago
Here is my opinion: antinatalism is a philosophy for a coward. Only a coward can take such an idea seriously, a weak person. I believe in reincarnation and that the purpose of human existence is conscientiousness-related evolution. It works for me. I do think that we need to lower our population via birth control to a lower number because of the lack of resources, and keep it at a certain level let's say two billion. But it's to save humanity, not destroy it.
vmorgun 5 months ago
@5:30 to 7:00 pure genius
ParkwayDriveHorizons 6 months ago
Let me put it this way, as claimed by the bible, the wisest man who ever lived stated:
2 And I declared that the dead, who had already died,
are happier than the living, who are still alive.
3 But better than both is the one who has never been born,
who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun."
It seems that the good King Solomon agreed with the Antinatalists.
TheJazzSwings 6 months ago
@TheJazzSwings Ecclesiastes 4:2 and 3
TheJazzSwings 6 months ago
It seems to me that far too many people dismiss "supernatural" possibilities simply on account of their own preexisting ideological loyalties and without seriously researching the available claims. I thought you might be open to viewing the following interview. If you can dismantle this man's claims, or provide some alternative explanation for the corroborating testimonies of his patients (i.e. wish-fulfilling products of a collective unconscious), I'd love to hear it: watch?v=0QDT58Q6Zxo
Silenus6 6 months ago
dude debbie downer much lmao
KRAZYKALA16 6 months ago
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draekhen 6 months ago
I CAN ONLY ASK YOU THIS . WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HAPPY THEY WERE BORN . BECAUSE IM GLAD MY MOM AND DAD HAD ME . MY LIFE HAS HAD UP AND DOWNS . BUT IM STILL GLAD TO BE HERE . I LOVE ALL PEOPLE . AND I DO FEEL EVERY ONES PAIN . BUT THAT IS APART OF LFE ! SO ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO BE THERE FOR EACHOTHER . BUT PEOPLE ALL WAYS WANT TO PLAY GOD . HOW ARE YOU GONNA TELL GOD . THAT HIS PLAN IS WRONG . BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING . JIM JONES PART 2 . HERE THEY COME . WATCH OUT .
nizzobeats 7 months ago
@nizzobeats With all due respect, your happy life may have been purchased at the expense of third-world countries, whose resources have been exploited so that you can live in relative comfort. Your experience is not separate from theirs, and does not act to mitigate theirs, but rather, your advantages appear to directly depend upon their disadvantages. To answer your 2nd objection: How do you know this man isn't playing his part in God's greater plan? And aren't you "playing God" by procreating?
Silenus6 6 months ago
@Silenus6 what the powers of the nation has done is on them . and if they have done any wrong . then there judgement will come . but when it comes to living here on earth . it is what what we choose . how also how we dill with life . but you say that i am free . but being a african american . we dont realy get to in joy the full power of american freedom . so i no what it means to suffer . but even no i lost my mother , my father , and my little sister . i am not bitter because God is good .
nizzobeats 6 months ago
@theantinatalist "your pun is crap."
It wasn't a pun: etymonline. com/index. php?term=sentient "sentient 1630s, "capable of feeling," from L. sentientem (nom. sentiens) "feeling," prp. of sentire "to feel" (see sense)."
hitssquad 7 months ago
etymonline. com/index. php?term=sense "sense (n.) c.1400 [...] from sentire"
hitssquad 7 months ago
@theantinatalist "Jim has said [...] the cruelty of nature needs to be addressed as well."
Have antinatalists addressed the possibility of humans intentionally directing a large comet to impact the earth and thus save sentient life from the continued supposed horror of sense? That gives me an idea: perhaps the movement could be given a catchy name, such as Stop Making Sense: google. com/search?q=talking+heads+stop+making+sense
hitssquad 7 months ago
@theantinatalist "No philanthropic antinatalist that I've ever come across has thought that it would be a good idea to let humans die out"
So, the opening statement of this video is wrong?: 0:08 "the philosophy of antinatalism, which is the belief that we need to stop breeding and let the race die out through attrition."
hitssquad 7 months ago
@theantinatalist "species isn't the issue."
Oh. No antinatalist has ever proposed letting the human species die out?
hitssquad 7 months ago
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@theantinatalist "Physical things which are most likely inseparable from our inherited evolutionary physiology and psychology.
Elimination of suffering and especially psychological deprivation without the elimination of sentience itself is in the realm of transhumanist science fiction"
Thanks for those bald assertions.
shlockofgod 7 months ago
@theantinatalist "the distinction between the imposition of life and the continuation of a life"
Why wouldn't that logic also apply to species?
hitssquad 7 months ago
1:20 "why would we inflict this kind of sometimes torturous existence on the people we supposedly love"
...Because were not necessarily hedonists?
hitssquad 7 months ago
There is just as much happiness as suffering.
TheKenTerry 8 months ago
You sound a bit like Kurt Cobain. "with the lights out, it's less dangerous"... Lights out meaning being dead.
HaiDeanna 8 months ago
"All we're really doing is breeding generation upon generation upon generation of fodder for a vicarious future that none of us will ever experience" I love it ; - ) Sounds rather selfish though doesn't it? I mean, isn't that exactly what people do everyday? Isn't that part of what gives life meaning? Are there not people right now living in a vicarious time from generations past such as of the abolitionists?
DiwataMan 8 months ago
Nope! that antinatalism stuff is not for me. Too boring.
GrinningSandCat 8 months ago
Our happiness is based on rational action - action in congruence with reality. In any fight with reality, put your money on reality. However, in a world today where SUBJECTIVITY and HEDONISM are the arbiters of truth, cause and effect work against us. In severe cases, we become unhappy, dependent and we suffer.
Holding that the solution is to diminish life is stupid and evasive.
The real problem lies in the predominant ignorant philosophies of your culture. And it CAN be changed.
dreadrocksean 9 months ago
@dreadrocksean What are you going on about? No "philosophy" has created the conditions of life on Earth. Antinatalism has nothing to do with ideologies. It has to do with the nature of life on Earth.
Franc28 8 months ago
Main reasons:
1 - we will die
2 - we will suffer
#1 is the basis for any morality. If we were indestructible, there would be no need for values since there would be nothing to gain or lose. It is in the face of an alternative that act on these value - the ultimate alternative being death.
#2 exists as the short term version on the #1 alternative. Suffering is an indication that we are moving toward our demise and prompts us to take action to reverse the trend.
dreadrocksean 9 months ago
Finally someone who is intelligent. Why is sanity so rare these days? Life is logicall not a gift. If you want to go the God route, it's a test. If not, it's just cruel suffering, and a suffering humanity as a whole empowers and puts upon itself and other species. We should stop procreating for at least 40 years. Not stop having sex, but stop having so many pregnancies and births. We have ways to circumvent these problems now.
vgman94 9 months ago
Thank God not all share your cynical outlook u seem 2 have on procreation & life. U seem to hav that 'doomsday' 'athiest' thing going on. No1 has all the answers, yer no different. I'm not a parent but I would never preach against ppl doing what they've been doing for 1000s of yrs. Life as suffering is a matter of opinion. I think many would consider non-existence a worse punishment than the human condition. + u wouldn't be here to make this video if your parents shared your antinatalism opinion
llouldeng 10 months ago
I have subscribed already and will look out for your post. I must admit this will be though since you have kids. I don't have kids yet, but I don't see any reason to. Metamorphh, you comment about being a minister made me smile because I had a similar upbringing and found everything to be false and a sham. I must admit I feel deflated, lied to for the better part of my life. I'm now trying to pick myself and look for explanations how i can lead my life.
jeromeeusebius 10 months ago
I have subscribed already and will look out for your post
jeromeeusebius 10 months ago
Hi Metamorphhh, I'm glad I came across your video. This is something I have struggled with for while. Everything started falling into place when I read the works of Arthur Schoppenhauer. I had lots of depression seeing the victims of war, earthquakes, etc, and I ask why all this and to what end? However, I'm under a lot of pressure from family and colleagues at the office to get married and have kids. I don't know how to handle this yet (but hopefully will find a way). May have to leave my job.
jeromeeusebius 10 months ago
redshift: However, unless you're claiming that evolved intelligence is completely divorced from some degree of correspondence with the real world, there are still truths to be had, and contemplated upon. Also, a negative reaction to suffering is not a learned behavior, and my opposition is just an conscious-based extrapolation of that more primordial reaction. Best, jim
metamorphhh 11 months ago
@metamorphhh i realize that a negative reaction to suffering is not a learned behavior, but the strong repulsion to suffering that antinatalism requires is learned. Suffering is part of a healthy life. You can't feel joy without feeling suffering. Too much of it and you will hate life, that is true. But you still need it. "there is neither happiness nor misery in the world, there is only the comparison of one state with another" Alexandre Dumas
redshiftexperiment 10 months ago
you are a result of chemistry. Your strong opposition to suffering is a learned value. However, the need to breed, eat and (all the other stuff) is far stronger than this value to avoid the possible suffering. futile? Maybe, but this seems to be somewhat egocentric view. Yes, life is pointless if you look at it from the human perspective. I would be naive to say I could understand other perspective than my own. All I know is that I am part of a universe where my existence plays a minute part.
redshiftexperiment 11 months ago
"Strong opposition" to suffering (i.e. compassion and empathy) is largely learned through reason. It serves no evolutionary purpose to care about the animal you may have had for dinner. So the "learning" isn't a criticism.
Then you go on to defend nature with no justification other than false humility.
Life is pointless from any perspective you like. Purpose does not exist anywhere in the universe, only reasons why things happen.
justdragonflies 10 months ago
@justdragonflies I agree that life is pointless from any perspective you like. but you are the one who is demanding some grand meaning, saying the human race should end just because you don't see enough meaning in it today. My point is that we are part of nature and you can't seperate yourself from that just by thoughts alone. You admit you won't kill yourself because you are already hooked by the instincts nature gave you. fine. why label that as a negative?
redshiftexperiment 10 months ago
I think it would be objectively better for living things if they had never come into existence because a non-existent being cannot be deprived. This has nothing to do with meaning. Mr. Nobody isn't sad that he doesn't get to have sex or take or dump or work 50 hours a week or witness his loved ones dying or experience any other of life's miracles.
Putting an end to sentience is just the logical conclusion of sympathy.
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justdragonflies 10 months ago
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We separate ourselves from nature all the time when it comes to medicine technology, luxuries etc. Nature is our enemy not our friend.
I label my addiction to life as a negative because I didn't consent to be here, and neither did you. Things are the way they are, but I don't have to like it.
justdragonflies 10 months ago
@justdragonflies technology, medicine and luxury is nature. It's just the nature that was a byproduct of human existence. no you don't seperate yourself from nature, you are deceiving yourself. but anyway, if you ask someone, "would you rather you have never been born at all?" and they reply "no", well then that is an indication that at least they feel it was a net positive that they exist. as others have said, it is impossible to accurately quantify quality of life.
redshiftexperiment 10 months ago
@justdragonflies "I think it would be objectively better for living things if they had never come into existence"
Then why did you yesterday choose to cause the person you are today to come into existence?
hitssquad 7 months ago
@justdragonflies "I think it would be objectively better for living things if they had never come into existence because a non-existent being cannot be deprived."
Where do you get the objectivity in "better"? What's your argument for that?
"Putting an end to sentience is just the logical conclusion of sympathy"
What do u mean? Why don't u put an and to suffering? Mental and physical pain are physical things.
Do you have personal reason for wanting all life extinguished other than suffering?
shlockofgod 8 months ago
I believe in making life hell for those who try to bring hell to me.
01blackpete1 11 months ago
This argument is an autofail. It is in fact the epitome thereof. If you truly feel this way, kill yourself and be done with it. Just by you making videos on the topic proves that you are being inconsistent at the very least, hypocritical at best, and a chickenshit soapbox rider in any case.
jason666king 11 months ago
@jason666king How is he being hypocritical? His concern is primarily with reducing unnecessary suffering in the world. If he killed himeself then he would be bringing a great deal of pain and suffering to the very people who love him the most.
DerivedEnergy 11 months ago
Killing oneself doesn't end the existence of suffering.
Antinatalists and negative utilitarians are primarily concerned with putting an end to suffering so it would be inconsistent and hypocritical (though understandable) for them to do so. A rational person will realise that my suffering is no less real or horrific than anyone else's.
Your rhetoric is infantile and vulgar in its lack of logic.
justdragonflies 10 months ago
misery loves company
MrMoodang 11 months ago
Jim you were great, nice to finally see you. You are the man!
yupiie 1 year ago
the two main reasons i became an antinatalist are : we dont know what happens after we die and 2.) the human race HAS to end eventually
leiapeison 1 year ago
nice to finally see you!!! keep up the great work!!
leiapeison 1 year ago
Life is a burden.
ratonweed 1 year ago
[continued] Setting up a process in the brain like "don't defend your beliefs -- test them for glitches" would ideally solve all such cognitive contradictions. The more receptive we are to new ideas (initially, anyway), the less likely that bad mental processes of that sort will increase suffering.
LeavingSociety 1 year ago
It seems like those who've already had children are most likely to suffer from cognitive dissonance upon confronting the logic of the so-called "anti-natalist" premise. By admitting to themselves that reproducing is irresponsible and in direct opposition to a core component of their value system -- consent -- they feel that they're admitting that their children shouldn't exist, which also conflicts with their values.
LeavingSociety 1 year ago
* in your channel
Planet0fTheApes 1 year ago
I don't see the antinatalism blogspot url to your channel profile's website or channel description field.
Planet0fTheApes 1 year ago
I'm not always sad; I think it's just the droopy eyes (never noticed just how droopy they are before today): My children are generally happy, though there's no guarantee that will always be the case. I do what I can for them, and worry a lot, knowing that all the worrying in the world won't save them. Or me. But I do what I can. I appreciate your encouragement :)
metamorphhh 1 year ago
I agree with what you said and I too believe that bringing humans into a world of suffering and eternal death most likely is wrong. But I notice you seem very sad. How are your children? With my decision I am a very happy person concerning this, knowing that I will not be responsible for causing my kids' suffering, but like I said on your other video, not everyone can be childfree.You should be happy knowing that you realised this and just be the best you can to your family.
artep2122 1 year ago
well, i think the matter of fact is that each person could choose to be child free. and also, you are already responsible for your child's suffering because you brought them here. @artep2122
SuperYouGerT 1 year ago
@SuperYouGerT I don't have children, I was just speaking figuratively (or whatever).
artep2122 1 year ago
@SuperYouGerT hypothetically I think.
artep2122 1 year ago