Well from what I gather the guy on the side of religion was too weak minded and needed the help of an imaginary friend to pull himself out of a hole. I lost count of how many logical fallacies he made during the entire debate.
Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
Please get someone else next time. He may be articulate, but he is certainly not intelligent.
P.S. My definition of intelligent is someone who has the ability and will to use their reason and use logic to interpret/figure things out. Lee is doing none of this.
She has WAAAAAAAAAAAY more patience and self-restraint that I have. I would probably be reduced to a blabbering mess from the theist's redirection, dishonesty, and/or idiocy.
People keep thinking that atheists actually need to disprove religion, in science evidence is needed to prove something and all that's needed to disprove something is lack of evidence
"JunebugObama" Nawwww! If Lee cannot be honest when the truth is right in his face (about atheist and why we don't believe) And he's just totaly into what he Thinks is how "god" wants something then he doesn't need to speak on how marriage or any other relationship should go. He should just keep his views to himself, keep his mouth shut because intellegent people don't want to hear his views with "god" included in them and just keep looking for that invisible man in the sky.
And as the earth is still here, you do the Math. ;O) Finally, the man(Titus Flavius Josephus) that Griffin mention earlier was not a contemporary of the fictional jesus character, as he was born 1-4 years after the jesus character was supposed to have died. The fact of the matter is that there are absolutely no contemporary writings about the jesus character inside, or outside of the bible. Everything that was written about him was done 50+ years after he supposedly died. ;O)
Thirdly, the fictional jesus character said in relation to gods laws/commands: "18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matt 5:18-19(KJV)
This Griffin guy has no clue of what he is talking about. First off there are actually 613 laws/commandments in the old testament that the god character gave to Moses. Secondly, the fictional jesus character only fulfilled the sacrificial laws, and not the moral laws(like do not lie, do not kill, do not steal). So instead of sacrificing two goats and a bull on Yom Kippur each year as detailed in Lev. 16 as is commanded by god in the old testament, jesus became the scapegoat.
One last thing amoungst the Many things that I want to say,... Thank you sister for doing all the things that you do and I will contribute to the Science Cube program because children of all ages in school need to check out and get involved in science. Damn, what a wonderous universe and Eart we live in and on!
Brother JuneBugObama, what "future program" can Lee contribute to if he is as ignor (the truth) ant as he is? Naw, I know you were just being polite...right? Thanks for hosting the show!
@SpoonyG925 I actually did have other discussions in mind for Lee. If I did a debate on the pros and cons of marriage or why we should be for or against same sex marriage or something like that, I think he would be a great speaker on those topics.
Hi again Ayanna, I just got to listen to the rest of the debate and again WTF?!!What a clown!
Usually, I do Not talk to "believers" in that manner in any way shape or form but when you Ayanna and I say the things that you said to him either leading or responding to him/them and they ignore the truth of what is being spoken and Then insult us by comparing atheist to mobs that rob,steal and rape DAMN they make me mad enough to slap the jesus B.S. out of their blind,scared ass, empty bulbs/heads.
Hi Ayana, you go girl on be an attorney. Yeah!! Did you get to hear the atheist brother today (12/6/11) on the Al Sharpton how? I missed most of it but it's sound like it was good.
Lee has never seen electricity, he's affraid of it, WTF, Really!? All credability in what he is saying and purports to "believe" is not worth believing.
Belief in his own god is'nt enough to make him tell the truth when he's talking about him, ain't that abou' a bitch? NEXT!!!
... secular form of the scientific method in order to determine what is fact or fiction. i have much to say on this but ill leave it to you to put up more videos on this subject. i would suggest to try finding people in the academic, scientific, political community of higher intellectual standard who are beleivers or theist to represent religion in these debates. Having pastors or preist who dont have any real world knowledge of things other than the B/K/T makes for a one sided conversation!
...of the such you have been hosting in your videos. For instance he constantly committed what i call purposeful cognative Miss-interpretation. in the example he gave in regards to being able to "see" evidence of god and beleiving in him just the same as knowing air exist yet not "Seeing" it is both idiotic and highly intellectually retarded in that sight is a form of sense perception in which we employ with the others as we create theorizes which we test as hypothesis using the...part2
im sorry but i have heard way better debaters on the subject and what he was in my opinion was not educated in regards to having knowledge of other religions outside of the judo-christian-islamic perspective. it is kind of like reading 3 of the same book by three different people at the same time,lol. He seemed like a nice dude but in general when you are having discussions with people like this, they tend to not be intellectually developed enough to in order to hold real conversations...part1.
Question to the Christians : If "God" is the creator of everything that exist then by that logic that means "God" created h e l l, the devil,sin,h0m0s*xuals,Terrorism,and pain. Why would an all loving "God" create these horrible things for his "precious creations"?Then why would a “loving” “God” create people KNOWING that they will be atheist and NOT believe in him,only to send them to “h e l l” for NOT believing?
Pascal's wager is dangerous on three counts: 1) It completely ignores the fact that other mutually exclusive gods exist, in which case you should assume you are going to hell for probably worshiping the wrong god, 2) it proves your god is not omniscient in that he can't tell you are faking it, and 3) belief is a compulsion, NOT A CHOICE TO BE MADE!
Ayanna should have asked him why he believes jesus was god in the flesh. He will say because its "true", the real answer? Democratic Vote! (First Council of Nicea 325 a.d.) This guy's arguments are so perfectly circular it's almost not fair...
If I wanna hear a sermon I'd go to church... this theist was horrible. The female handled him well. I'm sure after the debate she must've thought about a million more things to say.
Should check out Bob Dutko's "Top Ten Proofs for God's Existence" and "Top Ten Proofs for the physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ"..........Pretty Interesting.
Also I like how the lady Ayaana got stright to the point. I knew the guy was full of mess when he started out with that "preacher talk". It sounds so fake to me. If you are going to tell me I have to live my life a certain way, serve, whorship and believe in a book that doesn't make any sense or Im going to a place called HELL(that you made to scare people into believeing) after I DIE then you need to come with EXTRAODINARY evidence. Wake up people. Doesn't christianity just seem wacky to u?
This guy keeps saying " Im not going to be so ARROGANT to THINK that I can prove the existence of god". Thats the problem brotha, thinking or being smart does not make you arrogant, uppity, boogie or whatever. Thats the same slave mentallity they forced on are ancestors as soon as they got of the boat. They kept them from reading so they preached it to them and said don't THINK or QUESTION this just have FAITH and BELIEVE in it. And this nonsense is being passed down 400 yrs. later. smh
If God was so fake and imaginary and unreal, why are we even having this discussion?? He must mean something to you, I.e.: You partially believe in God...& God's fine with that, but make no mistake God loves you but doesn't need you, You need to love & realize your need 4 him
Give Gods way of living a try. The baptist is right. While atheist individuals have made contributions, what has ATHEISM done for society? And admit it, u guys really just wanna do whatever u wanna do. F God and all His rules, right?
She should have got him when he used the typical Josephus line to prove Jesus' existence. It's widely known that line was added in during the Nicaea council to prove Jesus' divinity, even the Catholic church admits the line suffered from interpolations.
Actually there is no historical evidence of the bible. All the gospels of the NT were written after Jesus death and none state the same life of Jesus. There are no writings from Jesus himself. So the bible was written from heresay/ add-ons, nothing proven outside of the bible as well. I'm a black atheist that has studied the bible and can prove every fact I post from the bible itself.
I have to say Ayanna's argument held more ground than the Christian. He was completely ignorant of the fact that the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit is a knock off of the Egyptian/ Kemetian belief which was the origin of Christianity.
The burden of proof is on the theist saying that he can prove God, knows his mind, and can make claims on his behalf. The theist must prove that what they say is true.
"I am not going to be so arrogant as to say that I can prove a God...."
1. Jesus died for the sins of man. In Islam nobody dies for nobodies sin.
2. Maria is still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus's siblings in Christianty. In Islam Maria was a virgin when she got pregnant through the holy ghost. But after the birth of Jesus. She did had sex with Jozef and had more kids.
3. In Catholsim nuns and priest arent allowed to get married and have kids. In Islam an Imam has the same rights as any ordinary muslim.
Josephus was not a contemporary. There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus. The gospels and letter so the new testaments were written between 6 decades and a century after the supposed death of jesus. Lee is a misinformed, misguided individual.
Junebug if found out one day that you had an hour to live what would you do? Would you do something like pray to any God or would you trust that there is no God because of some belief like a supernatural being is impossible?
I'm not an athiest.I'm a believer in God.But that bible thumping moron is sickening.I hate niggaz who believe everything the white man taught them without questioning it.Thats a fucking slave.
Please lord this boy needs jesus heal this child help us destroy these demons oh and please send me a brand new car and a prostitute while my wife's sick in the hospital
Junebug Obama, thanks for hosting the Christian Vs Atheist debate. It was very interesting and both sides had a very persuasive point of view. Mr. Lee Griffen defended Christianity better than anyone I have ever heard (in popular culture), and Miss Watson defended her atheist point of view very well. Both sides were passionate and respectful. Also, I liked the courtousy both your guests presented toward you and one another. Keep the good videos coming JUNEBUG!!!
It is a universal reality that the "natural" order of things in a fallen world is CHAOS.
The only way that ORDER can be imposed upon CHAOS is thru the exertion of a free "WILL".
The only thing in this reality that has been "proven" to have a "WILL" is a "being"------which is someone or something that has a personality, a perspective, a point of view.
And for many of us, that being is who we respectfully refer to as "God".
I think that for the best results, you should get a thiest that use to be an athiest, and on athiest that use to be a thiest. I think that the theist should not have any ties to any particular religious belief, to make it a fair discussion.
I believe most atheists exist as a natural response to the HUGE distortion, misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what is interpreted in the bible and what Jesus said.
The evidence is overwhelming that a highly advanced, Spiritual man existed.
He absolutely spoke in symbology and parables, which is why one can have many different interpretations of what he said, depending on their life experiences and growth. You cannot take the bible literally.
Zoroaster, Rama, Lord Krishna, Lord Bhudha, Lord Mohammad, and Lord Christ ALL incarnated into human form at various times because Humanity at those times needed the “word”, or a boost in it's overall development or growth.
Also, all of the man made religions based on based on the before mentioned Spiritual leaders are distorted and misunderstood including Hinduism, Bhudism and Christianty. Spiritual teachings are always distorted when enough time and humans are involved.
The evidence is also overwhelming that there has to be a Source to the Universe. An Intelligence, Creator or God. The interpretation of who or what that Source is, varies greatly depending on the consciousnesses of the individual.
Scientists have done experiments "proving" that life can be created from no life. The question then has to be "WHO is doing the experiment?
Science is also inaccurate and always changing and NOT fact based. I remember when it was a fact the the atom was the smallest particle in the universe.
Evolution AND creation are not conflicting. They are both totally valid, but you cannot believe ALL of what science says and you cannot believe ALL of what religions interpret or believe.
There is a higher truth, a higher knowledge that is knowable but you have to open to it and ready for it as millions of people are daily discovering.
Debating this issue is exactly why religion/superstition has been allowed to grow into the cancer that it is today.
Why entertain stupidity? These are the same religious nuts who'll laugh at my face if I said the CandyMan was real for pete's sake. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??
People obviously still can't grasp the fundamental differences between proof and belief. If someone said the evidence for the wonders of the universe and creation are attibuted to Zeus, Odin, Quezaquotal, Krishna, or any other deity, christians have no problem immediately rejecting it, (why? because they don't believe it.). Some of us see the bible (especially the old testament) as mythology, just like we see the others as mythology.
Wow, Ayanna made some good points but what I am missing here is I never heard was if she fears to be wrong. I have never seen the truthful people within the realm of the God continuously stray along the wrong course in life. Its quite clear the bible have built the laws of society; however, what we fail to take into account when we discuss god is the truth feelings within our thoughts. Has anyone ever notice how our thoughts are more negative than positive. Then why do we try to do positive.
at 27 minutes he asked how is christianity right and other are wrong and then he answers with a response which is not revelent to the question. this guy is dodging questions and not answering them.
If you look at the order of the universe. How marvelous we are constructed. This could not just happen by chance. Some tend to take life for granted. Man being the most intelligent creature on Earth can only imitate and learn from nature. A simple house can not build itself likewise how can our material universe with it's order not have a builder (creator). There is no reasonable excuse that can deny there is a creator. Romans 1:20.
@algiddens why does it have to be your creator? zeus was around before and longer than jesus...so why should some rookie god be the creator and not a legend like zeus?
@Xcoming2 You said it. Zeus is a Legend. My goal is to share with those that will listen, how God has revealed himself and his purpose for the Earth and how he us using his son Jesus Christ to take the lead and fulfill that purpose. God has explained this by inspiring the Bible to be written. Now if you choose to worship Zeus, that's your choice. If you would like to learn more about God's purpose for the Earth then I will be happy to assist.
@Xcoming2 Stupid, you"re the one that praises Zeus. We all have the freedom to believe what ever we choose. My faith in the Bible is based on the many prophecies that have and continue to be fulfilled in addition to answering many questions concerning the Creator. If you are not interested, that's your choice. If you think that this universe with all it's order came by chance, that's also your choice. It's not stupid if I disagree.
JuneBug, How can you possible call Lee a great thinker? And, at the end, all he did was give another emotional sermon. I can't stand these stupid pigs.
The evidence is all around us that there is a God. Creation screams there is a creator. The Bible explains as to why God allows wickedness and what he will do to end it. The Christian's job is to declare this Good News.
@JunebugObama If you look at the order of the universe. How marvelous we are constructed. This could not just happen by chance. Some tend to take life for granted. Man being the most intelligent creature on Earth can only imitate and learn from nature. A simple house can not build itself likewise how can our material universe with it's order not have a builder (creator). There is no reasonable excuse that can deny there is a creator. Romans 1:20.
@JunebugObama The Bible explains that God has no beginning. An intelligent being with no beginning is beyond our comprehension and difficult for some to accept. The fact is we are here. The order of our universe indicates there is an intelligent and powerful creator. Man has a built in need to worship a higher power. I don't think that came by chance. We must have faith until God's appointed time. Rev. 21:3-4
@algiddens bible is not proof of ANYthing. And the "creation" isn't the proof of the "creator". How marvelous we are contructed? Haha we have so many faults... and go to the hospital and yell : "ISN'T IT GOOD TO BE HEALTHY?! PRAISE HIM" you'll get smacked in the face.
@RaitoDenki What did you say that warranted an answer other than the one I gave? Your comment appeared that you are trying to start an argument. If that is your purpose, you are going to have to go somewhere else(Matthew 7:6).
@algiddens but dude, for a god that can do ANYTHING.. its kinda lame innit?? oh and put here and forced to get on our knees or spend ETERNITY in badness..pathetic argument, the fact that we all are made of star dust, evolved from humble beginnings.. is shown in the fossil records with are scientifically verifiable.. the bible was written by men.. NOT inspired by god.. if it was im sure it would contain something that the men who wrote it at the time didnt know.
@algiddens I didn't really have a question. I was just pointing out that when religious people are asked to prove their position is valid, they simply start preaching the STORY of their religion. We all know the story. What we want to know is why on earth do you think that story is true?
@SubconsciousGatherer If you have read my previous comments, I spoke about evidence of an inteliigent creator. The Bible explains why he does not deal with man directly. Why he permits the calamities man experience. What he has and will do to re-establish his direct relationship with man. I was once a thiest not an active worshiper until studying the bible getting reasonable answers that made sense. No other religion has answered my questions as well. If that's preaching, well it is what it is.
@JunebugObama I would contend, we are no longer in the "Proof/Proving" age, or stage of whether God exist. Nothing or no one is going to come along and upstage the works of Jesus Christ. Think about it... If you or I sent our son or daughter to deliver a message to a group of people, and they slit our child's throat, it would only be a "Quiet before the Storm", next on the agenda for those people. Great follow up, as others have said Brother Man!
As many others have said, I believe that this debate was much better than last time. The last guy was not a Christian , he actually takes the Hebraic approach to the scriptures (which I agree with for the most part). The last woman was arrogant and loud, while this woman maintained her composure and presented her argument with class. I went to Lee's FB page and he stated that she was being disrespectful to him....I TOTALLY disagree. Although I don't agree with her, she did quite well.
June this was a lot better than last time brother this christian owned this atheist she really had no argument for him at all and she was just spining her wheels. But atheist are very arrogant and ignorant to think that humans are the only beings that live in this cosmos that have the ability to build or create things. Obviously there is a higher being that has the same ability because we all know no man built the earth humans; or animals so somebody had to obviously.
GREAT discussion on both sides. Ayanna wasn't the typical obnoxious atheist and Lee actually believes in the Bible. Both participants were very passionate but respectful... a RARITY in these sort of discussions.
Well said, Lee... with respect to prophecy, that is the Bible's greatest proof. But in order for this statement to be shown true, the atheist would actually have to take time to STUDY the Bible and it's prophecies to discover if it is true... but according to atheists, you aren't supposed to use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true (an illogical statement), therefore the atheist won't take the time to study and claim NO evidence exists.
@marcdaddy33 That's correct. Just like you can't use Spider-Man comic books to prove the existance of Spider-man, you can't use the bible to prove the existance of God, jesus, etc. It's called circular reasoning.
That is as ridiculous as someone stating you can't use science to prove science true... you can't use mathematics to prove that it is true... or you can't use a defendent as evidence of his innonence; afterall, how can we trust his testimony since he has all the innocentive in the world to lie to prove his innonence... THAT is the same nonsensical logic of the atheist saying "you can't use the Bible to prove if it is true".
@marcdaddy33 Ok, even if what you just said is true--which it aint--why would you want to use a book that's been translated, copied, re-interpreted, more times than you can imagine, to prove your point? "King James Version" Why does that phrase at the very least not tell you that book is not reliable. There's no such thing as "General Relativity: Canada Version."
"why would you want to use a book that's been translated, copied, re-interpreted"
======
On the surface, this sounds like a valid point. However, you must consider this fact: Although there are many numerous translations, we can be confident that they, for the most part, represent an accurate translation of the original Old and New Testament texts. The KJV was est. in 1611. Between 1947 and 1958, the Dead Sea Scrolls (dating from 150 BC-70 AD) were found....
...showing that modern translations were overwhelmingly accurate in transmitting the Hebrew Texts into English. Previous to the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest Old Testament manuscripts dated as far back as the 11th or 12th century A.D. One thousand years didn't diminish the accurate rendering of the OT.
With respect to the NT, it's even more amazing. There are thousands of available NT Greek manuscripts, some dating within 100 years of the original manuscripts...
...what's amazing is that of the approximately 140,000 words contained in the NT, less 2,000 are in doubt... showing a 99 percent accuracy. The numerous translations and their general agreement is a testament to a Christain's ability to put faith that the words contained in the Bible is a trustworthy translation of the orginal Biblical texts.
This in and of itself doesn't prove that the CONTENTS of the Bible is true; it merely shows the reliability of the translation.
....discovering the reliability of the translations of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts into English was an important first step in my becoming a Christian. If I couldn't be certain that, at the least, the translations were accurate it would have been difficult for me to believe that "All scripture is given by inspiration from God" (2 Tim 3:16) and trust that what the Bible stated was actually God's will.
""King James Version" Why does that phrase at the very least not tell you that book is not reliable."
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Well, I answered that already with respect to reliability. But let me answer your point about the name... why is the Miami Heat stadium called American Airlines Arena? Additionally, why is America's space program called NATIONAL Aeronatuics and Space Administration? The Heat are sponsored by that Airline, and NASA is funded by the government. SAME with putting together the KJV.
Ayanna, being a LAWYER should know better than parrot the typical atheist bromide that there is NO evidence for God... especially since she, by her own admittance, is a stickler for precise definitions.
@expatriate40 "He still doesn't get it. Atheists don't have an ideology." - WRONG, they DO have an ideology which is that absolute belief that God does not exist. Granted, it's not an extensive ideology, but it is an ideology none the less.
@indignant99 Firstly, don't respect me because you don't know how to construct an assertion. The sparsity of your "riposte" (if you can call it that LOL)_speaks volumes. I stick to my original assertion that atheists DO have an ideology end of story. Now go and get an education you fool. You sound ignorant and white.... are you?
@BlackAtheistAmerica: Oh well friend, if the HISTORICAL and ARCHEOLOGICAL evidences that convinced CS Lewis of Jesus' Existence, of Jesus' reality and Love of his soul doesn't convince you, I must say along with Dr. Philip Schaff, the eminent historian and professor at Yale University, "infidels are seldom convinced by argument; for the springs of unbelief are in the heart rather than in the head". It was good to debate with you. This conversation is hereby ended. Have a good life my friend...-
@un2hizpraz Yes, I asked you to look into CS Lewis sources. I, also, noted below that CS Lewis sources did not survive peer review. Peer review seeks to minimize bias. Please point me to the archeological and historical data which supports the existence of god.
But YOU are an infidel to every other religion. Do you not know that? That quote applies to you, as well.
@JunebugObama Great debate! Much better than the first one. Both the participants were knowledgeable about the material that they were talking about. Both had pretty convincing arguments.
I really get annoyed when Christians retreat to the "that's the old testament" excuse. Pastors still preach from it. Granted they skip over the bad parts, but it's not like they completely ignore it. The TEN COMMANDMENTS are in the OT, for god's sake (pun intended).
@waringpriest Then you don't understand the nature of science. There are always "questions marks" in science. Always will be. A scientist is constantly straddling the limits between the known and unknown, pushing the boundaries of mysteries. And the scientist has to be comfortable with that. Otherwise, we'd just be doing what religious people do and plug in "god" for every "question mark" we encounter. Religion needs to stay out of science, because it's a philosophy of ignorance.
It makes no difference what the definition of atheist is. LOL They still end up telling you that there is no God. LOL "I have never heard an Atheist say I do not believe there is a God but there might be a God." That may be what an Atheist is but she can't be on Youtube pretending that Atheist say such things because they don't. If they did they would not have anything to debate about. Again they don't do that, lol all atheist claim to know 100% that there is no God.
When you take her definition into account you realize that true Atheist are very rare. Everybody who think they are Atheist are really Agnostic and don't even know it. It what she said is correct.
Well Junebug according to this lady's definition of Atheist the lady who was on the previous video was not a true atheist, she was an Agnostic. So this is really part 1 to the Atheist debate and the last video should have Agnostic instead of Atheist in the title.
@WildL23 Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive. Agnostic/Gnostic goes to knowledge. Atheism/Theism goes to belief. Agnostic tells me nothing about what the person believes. One can be an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.
Mandisa, from the previous interview, is in fact an atheist.
@BlackAtheistsAmerica Exactly. Truth be told, there shouldn't even BE a word for not believing in imaginary beings. But because religion is SO ingrained and SO accepted, we had to come up with a word for people who reject these silly religious claims.
Well from what I gather the guy on the side of religion was too weak minded and needed the help of an imaginary friend to pull himself out of a hole. I lost count of how many logical fallacies he made during the entire debate.
gasoleendreams 1 day ago
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Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
tigersforchrist 2 weeks ago
Christopher Hitchens would have torn Lee a new...orifice.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
Please get someone else next time. He may be articulate, but he is certainly not intelligent.
P.S. My definition of intelligent is someone who has the ability and will to use their reason and use logic to interpret/figure things out. Lee is doing none of this.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
She has WAAAAAAAAAAAY more patience and self-restraint that I have. I would probably be reduced to a blabbering mess from the theist's redirection, dishonesty, and/or idiocy.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
If the NT fulfills the OT, how does that mean the OT is no longer relevant? Fulfillment does not necessarily mean erasing/negating.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
Lee may be intelligent/rational for a theist, but surely there are smarter theists out there that you could use.
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
Wait. You can see electricity! I have!
1Lanavis1 1 month ago
why is it always some ex-con or crackhead who wants to lecture the rest of us about god?
slickableandsoulful 2 months ago
the atheist did OK in defending her atheism, but man that paster didn't know a damn thing.
hiten369 2 months ago in playlist Religion
And wind
kyekire 2 months ago
And yes I have seen electricity
kyekire 2 months ago
People keep thinking that atheists actually need to disprove religion, in science evidence is needed to prove something and all that's needed to disprove something is lack of evidence
kyekire 2 months ago
this guy is an idiot!!
spareld 2 months ago
where is part 1?
spareld 2 months ago
@spareld /watch?v=mrR4mNYiMc8
JunebugObama 2 months ago
"JunebugObama" Nawwww! If Lee cannot be honest when the truth is right in his face (about atheist and why we don't believe) And he's just totaly into what he Thinks is how "god" wants something then he doesn't need to speak on how marriage or any other relationship should go. He should just keep his views to himself, keep his mouth shut because intellegent people don't want to hear his views with "god" included in them and just keep looking for that invisible man in the sky.
Thanks "JBO"
SpoonyG925 2 months ago
Prt3:
And as the earth is still here, you do the Math. ;O) Finally, the man(Titus Flavius Josephus) that Griffin mention earlier was not a contemporary of the fictional jesus character, as he was born 1-4 years after the jesus character was supposed to have died. The fact of the matter is that there are absolutely no contemporary writings about the jesus character inside, or outside of the bible. Everything that was written about him was done 50+ years after he supposedly died. ;O)
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 2 months ago
Prt2:
Thirdly, the fictional jesus character said in relation to gods laws/commands: "18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matt 5:18-19(KJV)
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 2 months ago
Prt1:
This Griffin guy has no clue of what he is talking about. First off there are actually 613 laws/commandments in the old testament that the god character gave to Moses. Secondly, the fictional jesus character only fulfilled the sacrificial laws, and not the moral laws(like do not lie, do not kill, do not steal). So instead of sacrificing two goats and a bull on Yom Kippur each year as detailed in Lev. 16 as is commanded by god in the old testament, jesus became the scapegoat.
Katalyzt
Katalyzt 2 months ago
One last thing amoungst the Many things that I want to say,... Thank you sister for doing all the things that you do and I will contribute to the Science Cube program because children of all ages in school need to check out and get involved in science. Damn, what a wonderous universe and Eart we live in and on!
Brother JuneBugObama, what "future program" can Lee contribute to if he is as ignor (the truth) ant as he is? Naw, I know you were just being polite...right? Thanks for hosting the show!
SpoonyG925 2 months ago
@SpoonyG925 I actually did have other discussions in mind for Lee. If I did a debate on the pros and cons of marriage or why we should be for or against same sex marriage or something like that, I think he would be a great speaker on those topics.
JunebugObama 2 months ago
Hi again Ayanna, I just got to listen to the rest of the debate and again WTF?!!What a clown!
Usually, I do Not talk to "believers" in that manner in any way shape or form but when you Ayanna and I say the things that you said to him either leading or responding to him/them and they ignore the truth of what is being spoken and Then insult us by comparing atheist to mobs that rob,steal and rape DAMN they make me mad enough to slap the jesus B.S. out of their blind,scared ass, empty bulbs/heads.
SpoonyG925 2 months ago
Hi Ayana, you go girl on be an attorney. Yeah!! Did you get to hear the atheist brother today (12/6/11) on the Al Sharpton how? I missed most of it but it's sound like it was good.
Lee has never seen electricity, he's affraid of it, WTF, Really!? All credability in what he is saying and purports to "believe" is not worth believing.
Belief in his own god is'nt enough to make him tell the truth when he's talking about him, ain't that abou' a bitch? NEXT!!!
Damn Clown, aghhhhhhhhhh!
SpoonyG925 2 months ago
@SpoonyG925 No, I missed it, yesterday. Can you send me a link? I can't seem to find it, and I would LOVE to hear it.
BlackAtheistsAmerica 2 months ago
@BlackAtheistsAmerica I would like to hear this also. I'm going to try to see if I can find it online.
JunebugObama 2 months ago
... secular form of the scientific method in order to determine what is fact or fiction. i have much to say on this but ill leave it to you to put up more videos on this subject. i would suggest to try finding people in the academic, scientific, political community of higher intellectual standard who are beleivers or theist to represent religion in these debates. Having pastors or preist who dont have any real world knowledge of things other than the B/K/T makes for a one sided conversation!
JGvisions 3 months ago
...of the such you have been hosting in your videos. For instance he constantly committed what i call purposeful cognative Miss-interpretation. in the example he gave in regards to being able to "see" evidence of god and beleiving in him just the same as knowing air exist yet not "Seeing" it is both idiotic and highly intellectually retarded in that sight is a form of sense perception in which we employ with the others as we create theorizes which we test as hypothesis using the...part2
JGvisions 3 months ago
im sorry but i have heard way better debaters on the subject and what he was in my opinion was not educated in regards to having knowledge of other religions outside of the judo-christian-islamic perspective. it is kind of like reading 3 of the same book by three different people at the same time,lol. He seemed like a nice dude but in general when you are having discussions with people like this, they tend to not be intellectually developed enough to in order to hold real conversations...part1.
JGvisions 3 months ago
Question to the Christians : If "God" is the creator of everything that exist then by that logic that means "God" created h e l l, the devil,sin,h0m0s*xuals,Terrorism,and pain. Why would an all loving "God" create these horrible things for his "precious creations"?Then why would a “loving” “God” create people KNOWING that they will be atheist and NOT believe in him,only to send them to “h e l l” for NOT believing?
ether150 3 months ago
also if you do another video, please have a more educated theist or religious person to debate against someone like Ms.watson.
JGvisions 3 months ago
@JGvisions I found him to be very educated as a theist but I am open minded to hearing others speak on the topic also.
JunebugObama 3 months ago
awesome peaceful debate with black people. very entertaining and informative.
JGvisions 3 months ago
@JGvisions Thank you.
JunebugObama 3 months ago
Josepheus was not contempery.
The theist is completely clueless.
Scanini 3 months ago
Pascal's wager is dangerous on three counts: 1) It completely ignores the fact that other mutually exclusive gods exist, in which case you should assume you are going to hell for probably worshiping the wrong god, 2) it proves your god is not omniscient in that he can't tell you are faking it, and 3) belief is a compulsion, NOT A CHOICE TO BE MADE!
DaylightDigital 3 months ago
Ayanna should have asked him why he believes jesus was god in the flesh. He will say because its "true", the real answer? Democratic Vote! (First Council of Nicea 325 a.d.) This guy's arguments are so perfectly circular it's almost not fair...
DaylightDigital 3 months ago
First mistake he said Christianity is not a religion, WOW!
DaylightDigital 3 months ago
If I wanna hear a sermon I'd go to church... this theist was horrible. The female handled him well. I'm sure after the debate she must've thought about a million more things to say.
eldogg4life 3 months ago
Should check out Bob Dutko's "Top Ten Proofs for God's Existence" and "Top Ten Proofs for the physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ"..........Pretty Interesting.
creatingsuccess2020 3 months ago in playlist More videos from JunebugObama
@creatingsuccess2020 Thanks...I will check those out.
JunebugObama 3 months ago
Also I like how the lady Ayaana got stright to the point. I knew the guy was full of mess when he started out with that "preacher talk". It sounds so fake to me. If you are going to tell me I have to live my life a certain way, serve, whorship and believe in a book that doesn't make any sense or Im going to a place called HELL(that you made to scare people into believeing) after I DIE then you need to come with EXTRAODINARY evidence. Wake up people. Doesn't christianity just seem wacky to u?
Turkeyhill19 4 months ago 12
This guy keeps saying " Im not going to be so ARROGANT to THINK that I can prove the existence of god". Thats the problem brotha, thinking or being smart does not make you arrogant, uppity, boogie or whatever. Thats the same slave mentallity they forced on are ancestors as soon as they got of the boat. They kept them from reading so they preached it to them and said don't THINK or QUESTION this just have FAITH and BELIEVE in it. And this nonsense is being passed down 400 yrs. later. smh
Turkeyhill19 4 months ago 10
If God was so fake and imaginary and unreal, why are we even having this discussion?? He must mean something to you, I.e.: You partially believe in God...& God's fine with that, but make no mistake God loves you but doesn't need you, You need to love & realize your need 4 him
dfjr1990 5 months ago
@dfjr1990 there is a discussion about the god of the bible because SO many people actually believe in one.
Sc0ttPrian 4 months ago
Give Gods way of living a try. The baptist is right. While atheist individuals have made contributions, what has ATHEISM done for society? And admit it, u guys really just wanna do whatever u wanna do. F God and all His rules, right?
gcornelius308 5 months ago
She should have got him when he used the typical Josephus line to prove Jesus' existence. It's widely known that line was added in during the Nicaea council to prove Jesus' divinity, even the Catholic church admits the line suffered from interpolations.
lavar86 5 months ago
She slaughtered this dude.
Andemur 5 months ago
To close i have a quote from Daniel webster. He was our dictionary. You know our dictionary.
dutchbert420 5 months ago
@hustlingwithme God is real but he ain't no motherfucking white man
SMOKING5STRING 5 months ago
Actually there is no historical evidence of the bible. All the gospels of the NT were written after Jesus death and none state the same life of Jesus. There are no writings from Jesus himself. So the bible was written from heresay/ add-ons, nothing proven outside of the bible as well. I'm a black atheist that has studied the bible and can prove every fact I post from the bible itself.
lovergal1984 5 months ago
"maybe the atheist cannot find God, the same way a thief cannot find the police" -unknown
un2hizpraz 6 months ago
I have to say Ayanna's argument held more ground than the Christian. He was completely ignorant of the fact that the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit is a knock off of the Egyptian/ Kemetian belief which was the origin of Christianity.
indykid811 6 months ago 2
Way to go Ayanna!!!
mandisathomas0904 6 months ago
first words.. i knew this christian dude was insane
ikov 6 months ago
Lol she sounds like Ellen degeneres
TroyGazim 6 months ago
@TroyGazim LOL, really? That's a first.
BlackAtheistsAmerica 6 months ago
That Christian guy is a joke at arguing....That woman owned his ass from the start.
IcarusTouma 6 months ago 2
man all the atheist wemon you have on sound sexy
kainniak1 6 months ago
@kainniak1 Maybe I should do an "Atheist Women Swimwear Calendar" for my listeners...JUST KIDDING. LOL!
JunebugObama 6 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@JunebugObama Maybe you should do an "Theist Women Swimwear Calendar"
olambragal 4 months ago
lol, the atheist ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED the christian! It was almost painful to listen to...
Endymos 6 months ago
The burden of proof is on the theist saying that he can prove God, knows his mind, and can make claims on his behalf. The theist must prove that what they say is true.
"I am not going to be so arrogant as to say that I can prove a God...."
In that case...
GAME OVER.
DarkOnyx 6 months ago
I believe that the video didn't get much past 12:00 when your friend Lee completely missed the operational definition of atheism.
"I cannot prove that there's a god, Miss Watson cannot prove that there's NOT a god... we both then have faith."
She already said that atheism is NOT the statement "There is no God." It's the response to someone who says "I know God" that "I don't believe you."
Complete failure to recognize "burden of proof" IMHO.
DarkOnyx 6 months ago
There is Atheistic Satanism and Theistic Satanism.
Atheistic Satanism started in the 60's by Anton Levey.
Remeber: Atheist is only the defintion of what you DO NOT believe not of what you DO believe.
You can attach Atheism or Theism to any belief system you want.
So the Precher attack on Atheism as a whole was yet another attempt at DISINFORMATION.
Jayjon81 6 months ago
i can't wait for part 3
Montag1992 6 months ago
@Montag1992 I'm going to wait a bit before I plan a third installment, but with the guests I have in mind, it should prove to be an intense debate.
JunebugObama 6 months ago
Parth 2
4. In Cahtolism beliefe that the Pope is god on earth for the Catholics. In Islam all humanbeens are equal.
And that is why Islam is more logic then Christianty.
Superageofreason 7 months ago
Parth 1
Christianty is far from logic:
1. Jesus died for the sins of man. In Islam nobody dies for nobodies sin.
2. Maria is still a virgin after giving birth to Jesus's siblings in Christianty. In Islam Maria was a virgin when she got pregnant through the holy ghost. But after the birth of Jesus. She did had sex with Jozef and had more kids.
3. In Catholsim nuns and priest arent allowed to get married and have kids. In Islam an Imam has the same rights as any ordinary muslim.
Superageofreason 7 months ago
@Superageofreason "rights as any ordinary muslim." hahaha and what would they be???? all religions remove freedom from its victims
ikov 6 months ago
Josephus was not a contemporary. There are no contemporary accounts of Jesus. The gospels and letter so the new testaments were written between 6 decades and a century after the supposed death of jesus. Lee is a misinformed, misguided individual.
rersp21107 7 months ago
Junebug if found out one day that you had an hour to live what would you do? Would you do something like pray to any God or would you trust that there is no God because of some belief like a supernatural being is impossible?
WildL23 7 months ago
And tell the truth brother, if it was the last chance to influence your afterlife, what would you do?
WildL23 7 months ago
Yeah sure the white man came die for you you despicable fucking idiot.
SMOKING5STRING 7 months ago
I'm not an athiest.I'm a believer in God.But that bible thumping moron is sickening.I hate niggaz who believe everything the white man taught them without questioning it.Thats a fucking slave.
SMOKING5STRING 7 months ago
Please lord this boy needs jesus heal this child help us destroy these demons oh and please send me a brand new car and a prostitute while my wife's sick in the hospital
steviesbackbitch 7 months ago
What proof would you accept?
thedavecorp 7 months ago
@thedavecorp ill take anything imperical! hit me up! bet you the entire universe you cant :) oh yeah, by the way, dont mention the bible
ikov 6 months ago
Junebug Obama, thanks for hosting the Christian Vs Atheist debate. It was very interesting and both sides had a very persuasive point of view. Mr. Lee Griffen defended Christianity better than anyone I have ever heard (in popular culture), and Miss Watson defended her atheist point of view very well. Both sides were passionate and respectful. Also, I liked the courtousy both your guests presented toward you and one another. Keep the good videos coming JUNEBUG!!!
Thestarvinstudent 7 months ago
@Thestarvinstudent Thanks...I agree and I also like the way both of my guests handled themselves and the subject matter.
JunebugObama 7 months ago
Yo Junebug,
Very good show. Here's my take on it:
It is a universal reality that the "natural" order of things in a fallen world is CHAOS.
The only way that ORDER can be imposed upon CHAOS is thru the exertion of a free "WILL".
The only thing in this reality that has been "proven" to have a "WILL" is a "being"------which is someone or something that has a personality, a perspective, a point of view.
And for many of us, that being is who we respectfully refer to as "God".
VictoryUnlimitedShow 7 months ago
I'm a athiest myself but Faith is defined in the dictionary as "belief that is not based on proof" you can check yourself at dictionary(dot)com
BlackPoisonxX 7 months ago
I think that for the best results, you should get a thiest that use to be an athiest, and on athiest that use to be a thiest. I think that the theist should not have any ties to any particular religious belief, to make it a fair discussion.
plo617 7 months ago
I believe most atheists exist as a natural response to the HUGE distortion, misinterpretation and misunderstanding of what is interpreted in the bible and what Jesus said.
The evidence is overwhelming that a highly advanced, Spiritual man existed.
He absolutely spoke in symbology and parables, which is why one can have many different interpretations of what he said, depending on their life experiences and growth. You cannot take the bible literally.
urdivine 7 months ago
Zoroaster, Rama, Lord Krishna, Lord Bhudha, Lord Mohammad, and Lord Christ ALL incarnated into human form at various times because Humanity at those times needed the “word”, or a boost in it's overall development or growth.
Also, all of the man made religions based on based on the before mentioned Spiritual leaders are distorted and misunderstood including Hinduism, Bhudism and Christianty. Spiritual teachings are always distorted when enough time and humans are involved.
urdivine 7 months ago
The evidence is also overwhelming that there has to be a Source to the Universe. An Intelligence, Creator or God. The interpretation of who or what that Source is, varies greatly depending on the consciousnesses of the individual.
Scientists have done experiments "proving" that life can be created from no life. The question then has to be "WHO is doing the experiment?
urdivine 7 months ago
Science is also inaccurate and always changing and NOT fact based. I remember when it was a fact the the atom was the smallest particle in the universe.
Evolution AND creation are not conflicting. They are both totally valid, but you cannot believe ALL of what science says and you cannot believe ALL of what religions interpret or believe.
There is a higher truth, a higher knowledge that is knowable but you have to open to it and ready for it as millions of people are daily discovering.
urdivine 7 months ago
My responses are out of order. Please read each posting from the bottom up, although I guess it doesn't matter.
I will be curious to know if anyone actually believes that there is something to what I have said.
JunebugObama. You are something else [and I mean that in a positive way]
urdivine 7 months ago
Debating this issue is exactly why religion/superstition has been allowed to grow into the cancer that it is today.
Why entertain stupidity? These are the same religious nuts who'll laugh at my face if I said the CandyMan was real for pete's sake. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE??
BeachChairz 7 months ago
People obviously still can't grasp the fundamental differences between proof and belief. If someone said the evidence for the wonders of the universe and creation are attibuted to Zeus, Odin, Quezaquotal, Krishna, or any other deity, christians have no problem immediately rejecting it, (why? because they don't believe it.). Some of us see the bible (especially the old testament) as mythology, just like we see the others as mythology.
expatriate40 7 months ago
Wow, Ayanna made some good points but what I am missing here is I never heard was if she fears to be wrong. I have never seen the truthful people within the realm of the God continuously stray along the wrong course in life. Its quite clear the bible have built the laws of society; however, what we fail to take into account when we discuss god is the truth feelings within our thoughts. Has anyone ever notice how our thoughts are more negative than positive. Then why do we try to do positive.
k0de5 7 months ago
There is no evidence of a god.
Saying that the unknown = god is self PWNAGE.
There is evidence that the gods the books are all fiction.
Yahweigh 7 months ago
so how were we able to write down things that happened in hell?
Xcoming2 7 months ago
at 27 minutes he asked how is christianity right and other are wrong and then he answers with a response which is not revelent to the question. this guy is dodging questions and not answering them.
Xcoming2 7 months ago
so hinduism most be factual since india and asia were all documented.
christians are full of contradictions.
Xcoming2 7 months ago
god is an atheist.
Stuckherewithyou 7 months ago
If you look at the order of the universe. How marvelous we are constructed. This could not just happen by chance. Some tend to take life for granted. Man being the most intelligent creature on Earth can only imitate and learn from nature. A simple house can not build itself likewise how can our material universe with it's order not have a builder (creator). There is no reasonable excuse that can deny there is a creator. Romans 1:20.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens why does it have to be your creator? zeus was around before and longer than jesus...so why should some rookie god be the creator and not a legend like zeus?
Xcoming2 7 months ago
@Xcoming2 You said it. Zeus is a Legend. My goal is to share with those that will listen, how God has revealed himself and his purpose for the Earth and how he us using his son Jesus Christ to take the lead and fulfill that purpose. God has explained this by inspiring the Bible to be written. Now if you choose to worship Zeus, that's your choice. If you would like to learn more about God's purpose for the Earth then I will be happy to assist.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens Do you know how stupid that sounds? I here it all the time.
Xcoming2 7 months ago
@Xcoming2 Stupid, you"re the one that praises Zeus. We all have the freedom to believe what ever we choose. My faith in the Bible is based on the many prophecies that have and continue to be fulfilled in addition to answering many questions concerning the Creator. If you are not interested, that's your choice. If you think that this universe with all it's order came by chance, that's also your choice. It's not stupid if I disagree.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens I praise Zeus?
Your god is still a fairy tale.
Xcoming2 7 months ago
JuneBug, How can you possible call Lee a great thinker? And, at the end, all he did was give another emotional sermon. I can't stand these stupid pigs.
indignant99 7 months ago
Your least convincing argument, Lee, is your conversion from criminal/antisocial SHITHEAD to religious SHITHEAD.
indignant99 7 months ago
@algiddens- Good statement. My motto is that "all creation under the realm of time must have a Creator." And yes, keep spreading the Good News.
GODSLAWBIBLESLIDES 7 months ago
Keep doing these, this was awesome. hmm.... I don't really think the new Lee is much more impressive than the old Lee.
Squee505 7 months ago
Comment removed
GODSLAWBIBLESLIDES 7 months ago
The evidence is all around us that there is a God. Creation screams there is a creator. The Bible explains as to why God allows wickedness and what he will do to end it. The Christian's job is to declare this Good News.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens Do you believe that all people and all things have a creator?
JunebugObama 7 months ago
@JunebugObama If you look at the order of the universe. How marvelous we are constructed. This could not just happen by chance. Some tend to take life for granted. Man being the most intelligent creature on Earth can only imitate and learn from nature. A simple house can not build itself likewise how can our material universe with it's order not have a builder (creator). There is no reasonable excuse that can deny there is a creator. Romans 1:20.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens Okay, so if all things and all people have a creator....who created God?
JunebugObama 7 months ago
@JunebugObama The Bible explains that God has no beginning. An intelligent being with no beginning is beyond our comprehension and difficult for some to accept. The fact is we are here. The order of our universe indicates there is an intelligent and powerful creator. Man has a built in need to worship a higher power. I don't think that came by chance. We must have faith until God's appointed time. Rev. 21:3-4
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens bible is not proof of ANYthing. And the "creation" isn't the proof of the "creator". How marvelous we are contructed? Haha we have so many faults... and go to the hospital and yell : "ISN'T IT GOOD TO BE HEALTHY?! PRAISE HIM" you'll get smacked in the face.
RaitoDenki 7 months ago
@RaitoDenki If that's how you feel, you have the right to your opinion.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens again good way to avoid answering.
RaitoDenki 7 months ago
@RaitoDenki What did you say that warranted an answer other than the one I gave? Your comment appeared that you are trying to start an argument. If that is your purpose, you are going to have to go somewhere else(Matthew 7:6).
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens but dude, for a god that can do ANYTHING.. its kinda lame innit?? oh and put here and forced to get on our knees or spend ETERNITY in badness..pathetic argument, the fact that we all are made of star dust, evolved from humble beginnings.. is shown in the fossil records with are scientifically verifiable.. the bible was written by men.. NOT inspired by god.. if it was im sure it would contain something that the men who wrote it at the time didnt know.
ikov 6 months ago
@ikov Go to Isaiah 40:22 . This was written long before Columbus.
algiddens 6 months ago
@algiddens No, creationists are doing the screaming. They're nuts.
indignant99 7 months ago
@algiddens What you're doing is preaching, not proving. We know the story. Every religion has its story. We care more about evidence than mythology.
SubconsciousGatherer 7 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer What's your question?
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens I didn't really have a question. I was just pointing out that when religious people are asked to prove their position is valid, they simply start preaching the STORY of their religion. We all know the story. What we want to know is why on earth do you think that story is true?
SubconsciousGatherer 7 months ago
@SubconsciousGatherer If you have read my previous comments, I spoke about evidence of an inteliigent creator. The Bible explains why he does not deal with man directly. Why he permits the calamities man experience. What he has and will do to re-establish his direct relationship with man. I was once a thiest not an active worshiper until studying the bible getting reasonable answers that made sense. No other religion has answered my questions as well. If that's preaching, well it is what it is.
algiddens 7 months ago
@algiddens The moment the theist opens his mouth in this debate: Fail. Wow. All he does is preach, NOT prove. So naive.
SubconsciousGatherer 7 months ago
@JunebugObama I would contend, we are no longer in the "Proof/Proving" age, or stage of whether God exist. Nothing or no one is going to come along and upstage the works of Jesus Christ. Think about it... If you or I sent our son or daughter to deliver a message to a group of people, and they slit our child's throat, it would only be a "Quiet before the Storm", next on the agenda for those people. Great follow up, as others have said Brother Man!
gentleall 7 months ago
@gentleall Thank you and I will take what you say into consideration.
JunebugObama 7 months ago
As many others have said, I believe that this debate was much better than last time. The last guy was not a Christian , he actually takes the Hebraic approach to the scriptures (which I agree with for the most part). The last woman was arrogant and loud, while this woman maintained her composure and presented her argument with class. I went to Lee's FB page and he stated that she was being disrespectful to him....I TOTALLY disagree. Although I don't agree with her, she did quite well.
TorahCents 7 months ago
June this was a lot better than last time brother this christian owned this atheist she really had no argument for him at all and she was just spining her wheels. But atheist are very arrogant and ignorant to think that humans are the only beings that live in this cosmos that have the ability to build or create things. Obviously there is a higher being that has the same ability because we all know no man built the earth humans; or animals so somebody had to obviously.
superzeitgeist2 7 months ago
GREAT discussion on both sides. Ayanna wasn't the typical obnoxious atheist and Lee actually believes in the Bible. Both participants were very passionate but respectful... a RARITY in these sort of discussions.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
Well said, Lee... with respect to prophecy, that is the Bible's greatest proof. But in order for this statement to be shown true, the atheist would actually have to take time to STUDY the Bible and it's prophecies to discover if it is true... but according to atheists, you aren't supposed to use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true (an illogical statement), therefore the atheist won't take the time to study and claim NO evidence exists.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
@marcdaddy33 That's correct. Just like you can't use Spider-Man comic books to prove the existance of Spider-man, you can't use the bible to prove the existance of God, jesus, etc. It's called circular reasoning.
Haywerth 7 months ago
@Haywerth
That is as ridiculous as someone stating you can't use science to prove science true... you can't use mathematics to prove that it is true... or you can't use a defendent as evidence of his innonence; afterall, how can we trust his testimony since he has all the innocentive in the world to lie to prove his innonence... THAT is the same nonsensical logic of the atheist saying "you can't use the Bible to prove if it is true".
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
@marcdaddy33 Ok, even if what you just said is true--which it aint--why would you want to use a book that's been translated, copied, re-interpreted, more times than you can imagine, to prove your point? "King James Version" Why does that phrase at the very least not tell you that book is not reliable. There's no such thing as "General Relativity: Canada Version."
Haywerth 7 months ago
"why would you want to use a book that's been translated, copied, re-interpreted"
======
On the surface, this sounds like a valid point. However, you must consider this fact: Although there are many numerous translations, we can be confident that they, for the most part, represent an accurate translation of the original Old and New Testament texts. The KJV was est. in 1611. Between 1947 and 1958, the Dead Sea Scrolls (dating from 150 BC-70 AD) were found....
(cont...)
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
...showing that modern translations were overwhelmingly accurate in transmitting the Hebrew Texts into English. Previous to the finding of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest Old Testament manuscripts dated as far back as the 11th or 12th century A.D. One thousand years didn't diminish the accurate rendering of the OT.
With respect to the NT, it's even more amazing. There are thousands of available NT Greek manuscripts, some dating within 100 years of the original manuscripts...
(cont...)
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
...what's amazing is that of the approximately 140,000 words contained in the NT, less 2,000 are in doubt... showing a 99 percent accuracy. The numerous translations and their general agreement is a testament to a Christain's ability to put faith that the words contained in the Bible is a trustworthy translation of the orginal Biblical texts.
This in and of itself doesn't prove that the CONTENTS of the Bible is true; it merely shows the reliability of the translation.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
....discovering the reliability of the translations of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts into English was an important first step in my becoming a Christian. If I couldn't be certain that, at the least, the translations were accurate it would have been difficult for me to believe that "All scripture is given by inspiration from God" (2 Tim 3:16) and trust that what the Bible stated was actually God's will.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
""King James Version" Why does that phrase at the very least not tell you that book is not reliable."
=====
Well, I answered that already with respect to reliability. But let me answer your point about the name... why is the Miami Heat stadium called American Airlines Arena? Additionally, why is America's space program called NATIONAL Aeronatuics and Space Administration? The Heat are sponsored by that Airline, and NASA is funded by the government. SAME with putting together the KJV.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
This conversation, thus far, is superior to the first video... BOTH the theist and atheist are better in this video versus the first installment.
I appreciate Lee actually believing in the Bible vs. Joshua.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
Ayanna, being a LAWYER should know better than parrot the typical atheist bromide that there is NO evidence for God... especially since she, by her own admittance, is a stickler for precise definitions.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
For someone who is very particular about definitions, I wonder which dictionary she received it from.
marcdaddy33 7 months ago
@marcdaddy33 She's flawlessly correct. There's no evidence. I DARE YOU TO SERVE SOME UP.
indignant99 7 months ago
this christian dude is just repeating the same thing over n over his belief is based on a "feeling"...
LuvHealthNConception 7 months ago
Evidence is overrated? Really? Would any of you Christians buy a car without seeing it?
MrAdwolfe1 7 months ago
this is a lot better argument. since their is an actual christian arguing this time. good job junebug i was getting worried for a second.
smoothbrother69 7 months ago
He still doesn't get it. Atheists don't have an ideology.
expatriate40 7 months ago 3
@expatriate40 "He still doesn't get it. Atheists don't have an ideology." - WRONG, they DO have an ideology which is that absolute belief that God does not exist. Granted, it's not an extensive ideology, but it is an ideology none the less.
ezekielthemack 7 months ago
@ezekielthemack You're the wrong one, blockhead. It's NO BELIEF. Not your idiotic claim that we profess NO GOD.
indignant99 7 months ago
@indignant99 Firstly, don't respect me because you don't know how to construct an assertion. The sparsity of your "riposte" (if you can call it that LOL)_speaks volumes. I stick to my original assertion that atheists DO have an ideology end of story. Now go and get an education you fool. You sound ignorant and white.... are you?
ezekielthemack 7 months ago
Great series Junebug. I would suggest that you try to get Matt Dillahunty for the next one.
expatriate40 7 months ago
@BlackAtheistAmerica: Oh well friend, if the HISTORICAL and ARCHEOLOGICAL evidences that convinced CS Lewis of Jesus' Existence, of Jesus' reality and Love of his soul doesn't convince you, I must say along with Dr. Philip Schaff, the eminent historian and professor at Yale University, "infidels are seldom convinced by argument; for the springs of unbelief are in the heart rather than in the head". It was good to debate with you. This conversation is hereby ended. Have a good life my friend...-
un2hizpraz 7 months ago
@un2hizpraz Yes, I asked you to look into CS Lewis sources. I, also, noted below that CS Lewis sources did not survive peer review. Peer review seeks to minimize bias. Please point me to the archeological and historical data which supports the existence of god.
But YOU are an infidel to every other religion. Do you not know that? That quote applies to you, as well.
I hope you do well with you life.
BlackAtheistsAmerica 7 months ago
@un2hizpraz I am still waiting on the evidence to show that he was an attorney. I still cannot find any sources that state that.
BlackAtheistsAmerica 7 months ago
@waringpriest Yeah....ok. I'm sorry, I lost interest about halfway through that rant.
Haywerth 7 months ago
WildL23 amen! Only so much you do. Some people have it so set.
MsBibleToter 7 months ago
@JunebugObama Great debate! Much better than the first one. Both the participants were knowledgeable about the material that they were talking about. Both had pretty convincing arguments.
thuglifegreg24 7 months ago
I really get annoyed when Christians retreat to the "that's the old testament" excuse. Pastors still preach from it. Granted they skip over the bad parts, but it's not like they completely ignore it. The TEN COMMANDMENTS are in the OT, for god's sake (pun intended).
Haywerth 7 months ago
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cool70200 7 months ago
@waringpriest Then you don't understand the nature of science. There are always "questions marks" in science. Always will be. A scientist is constantly straddling the limits between the known and unknown, pushing the boundaries of mysteries. And the scientist has to be comfortable with that. Otherwise, we'd just be doing what religious people do and plug in "god" for every "question mark" we encounter. Religion needs to stay out of science, because it's a philosophy of ignorance.
Haywerth 7 months ago
Christianity was not meant to be imposed on people who don't want it, nor was it meant to be a "religion" or emotional costume rehearse.
That all started with power hungry men in Rome, which led up to Catholicism, Orthodox and Protestant factions.
Greek philosophy, logic, secularism, atheism, or rationalism will never be compatible with deity beliefs.
The Bible isn't going to give anyone tangible proof, only a choice and chance to read and acknowledge, if convinced or interested
cool70200 7 months ago
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cool70200 7 months ago
It makes no difference what the definition of atheist is. LOL They still end up telling you that there is no God. LOL "I have never heard an Atheist say I do not believe there is a God but there might be a God." That may be what an Atheist is but she can't be on Youtube pretending that Atheist say such things because they don't. If they did they would not have anything to debate about. Again they don't do that, lol all atheist claim to know 100% that there is no God.
WildL23 7 months ago
When you take her definition into account you realize that true Atheist are very rare. Everybody who think they are Atheist are really Agnostic and don't even know it. It what she said is correct.
WildL23 7 months ago
Well Junebug according to this lady's definition of Atheist the lady who was on the previous video was not a true atheist, she was an Agnostic. So this is really part 1 to the Atheist debate and the last video should have Agnostic instead of Atheist in the title.
WildL23 7 months ago
@WildL23 Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive. Agnostic/Gnostic goes to knowledge. Atheism/Theism goes to belief. Agnostic tells me nothing about what the person believes. One can be an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.
Mandisa, from the previous interview, is in fact an atheist.
BlackAtheistsAmerica 7 months ago
@BlackAtheistsAmerica Exactly. Truth be told, there shouldn't even BE a word for not believing in imaginary beings. But because religion is SO ingrained and SO accepted, we had to come up with a word for people who reject these silly religious claims.
Haywerth 7 months ago