Additionally, as a sort of compliment to "imaginenoreligion"'s question, do you think pretending to be a Christian in order to win Office is more, less, or equally justified if instead someone was pretending to be Atheist in order to win Office?
> do you think pretending to be a Christian in order to win Office is more, less, or equally justified if instead someone was pretending to be Atheist in order to win Office?
Impossible to imagine such a scenario! But speaking purely theoretically, I guess the two are equal.
I think I'd try to remain honest if I were running for President and the issue came up concerning my faith.
It'd be interesting to see if the people really valued an honest politician as much as they claim to, and I wouldn't want to be elected any other way than "fair and square".
> It'd be interesting to see if the people really valued an honest politician as much as they claim to
A book I read on Jimmy Carter said how he started out his presidency with the commitment to be straight and honest, and how reality continually smacked him in the face (e.g., in order to get cooperation from Arab moderates, he had to supply them with prostitutes and black market alcohol).
> If you were in Obama's position would you be willing to pretend to be a christian in order to be electable?
*If* I had the necessary qualities and ambition to run for office (I don't), and I *knew* that admitting my atheism would automatically disqualify me, then yes, I would pretend to be Christian (all the while reiterating the American ideal of separation between Church and State).
If you were working with the Underground Railroad in the deep South and hiding Harriet Tubman & a dozen runaways, would you "just be honest" with slavecatchers if they came to your door?
If you were one of the Germans hiding Anne Frank & family, would you "just be honest" with Nazi stormtroopers who were hunting down Jews?
These may seem like extreme examples, but I think they're comparable.
The ugly real-life result of presidential candidates being honest about their religious beliefs is that nontheists don't get into office, and true-believing (with all their accompanying irrationality) Christians are the only ones elected.
As mentioned in my response to Video 2 of 5, this leads to leaders who believe that God is talking to them--witness George W. Bush who says that following God's commands is part of his foreign policy.
I am unfamiliar with the first reference. I'm English!
but I'll assune that the answer would be the same as my answer to the second question. I would lie.
I understand that it is a necessary evil, but I would feel uncomfortable having to do it. It's a bit like having to pretend you are straight if you are gay, just to get elected.
I would also be too embarrassed to profess religious faith in public (and too proud of being an atheist), but this is probably because I was raised in the UK, where to admit to being a christian is a bit like admitting you've been in a mental institution.
I hear it is very different in some parts of the US.
> I would also be too embarrassed to profess religious faith in public ... this is probably because I was raised in the UK, where to admit to being a Christian is a bit like admitting you've been in a mental institution.
> I am unfamiliar with the first reference. I'm English!
Well, you know us Americans - we assume that everybody around the world knows everything about our culture!
Slavery was legal in North America's South until after our Civil War in the 1860s, and the "underground railroad" was a network of antislavery activists who helped slaves escape to the free states in the North: showing them escape routes, "safe" houses to stay in, providing food, etc.
Harriet Tubman, an escaped slave herself, was the most famous of these underground railroad "conductors" (and slave-catchers offered a huge reward for anyone who caught her, dead or alive).
> I understand that it is a necessary evil, but I would feel uncomfortable having to do it. It's a bit like having to pretend you are straight if you are gay, just to get elected.
Additionally, as a sort of compliment to "imaginenoreligion"'s question, do you think pretending to be a Christian in order to win Office is more, less, or equally justified if instead someone was pretending to be Atheist in order to win Office?
sciencemile 2 years ago
> do you think pretending to be a Christian in order to win Office is more, less, or equally justified if instead someone was pretending to be Atheist in order to win Office?
Impossible to imagine such a scenario! But speaking purely theoretically, I guess the two are equal.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
It (the scenario) may happen one day. One can only hope ;)
Thanks for your replies :)
sciencemile 2 years ago
I think I'd try to remain honest if I were running for President and the issue came up concerning my faith.
It'd be interesting to see if the people really valued an honest politician as much as they claim to, and I wouldn't want to be elected any other way than "fair and square".
sciencemile 2 years ago
1 of 2:
> I think I'd try to remain honest if I were running for President and the issue came up concerning my faith.
Looking at two evils, and trying to choose the lesser, is never easy!
As much as I don't like that Obama had to lie to get elected, I think it would have been worse for him to tell the truth and lose the election.
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
2 of 2:
> It'd be interesting to see if the people really valued an honest politician as much as they claim to
A book I read on Jimmy Carter said how he started out his presidency with the commitment to be straight and honest, and how reality continually smacked him in the face (e.g., in order to get cooperation from Arab moderates, he had to supply them with prostitutes and black market alcohol).
ToddAllenGates 2 years ago
Religion may well be very useful to politicians... and con-artists and fraudsters!
If you were in Obama's position would you be willing to pretend to be a christian in order to be electable?
imaginenoreligion 3 years ago
1 of 3:
> If you were in Obama's position would you be willing to pretend to be a christian in order to be electable?
*If* I had the necessary qualities and ambition to run for office (I don't), and I *knew* that admitting my atheism would automatically disqualify me, then yes, I would pretend to be Christian (all the while reiterating the American ideal of separation between Church and State).
Questions for you:
ToddGates 3 years ago
2 of 3:
If you were working with the Underground Railroad in the deep South and hiding Harriet Tubman & a dozen runaways, would you "just be honest" with slavecatchers if they came to your door?
If you were one of the Germans hiding Anne Frank & family, would you "just be honest" with Nazi stormtroopers who were hunting down Jews?
These may seem like extreme examples, but I think they're comparable.
ToddGates 3 years ago
3 of 3:
The ugly real-life result of presidential candidates being honest about their religious beliefs is that nontheists don't get into office, and true-believing (with all their accompanying irrationality) Christians are the only ones elected.
As mentioned in my response to Video 2 of 5, this leads to leaders who believe that God is talking to them--witness George W. Bush who says that following God's commands is part of his foreign policy.
ToddGates 3 years ago
1 of 2:
I am unfamiliar with the first reference. I'm English!
but I'll assune that the answer would be the same as my answer to the second question. I would lie.
I understand that it is a necessary evil, but I would feel uncomfortable having to do it. It's a bit like having to pretend you are straight if you are gay, just to get elected.
imaginenoreligion 3 years ago
2 of 2:
I would also be too embarrassed to profess religious faith in public (and too proud of being an atheist), but this is probably because I was raised in the UK, where to admit to being a christian is a bit like admitting you've been in a mental institution.
I hear it is very different in some parts of the US.
imaginenoreligion 3 years ago
> I would also be too embarrassed to profess religious faith in public ... this is probably because I was raised in the UK, where to admit to being a Christian is a bit like admitting you've been in a mental institution.
I'm jealous! Hope we get there some day.
ToddGates 3 years ago
1 of 2:
> I am unfamiliar with the first reference. I'm English!
Well, you know us Americans - we assume that everybody around the world knows everything about our culture!
Slavery was legal in North America's South until after our Civil War in the 1860s, and the "underground railroad" was a network of antislavery activists who helped slaves escape to the free states in the North: showing them escape routes, "safe" houses to stay in, providing food, etc.
ToddGates 3 years ago
2 of 2:
Harriet Tubman, an escaped slave herself, was the most famous of these underground railroad "conductors" (and slave-catchers offered a huge reward for anyone who caught her, dead or alive).
> I understand that it is a necessary evil, but I would feel uncomfortable having to do it. It's a bit like having to pretend you are straight if you are gay, just to get elected.
Good analogy.
ToddGates 3 years ago