@FeignofCordor you are not born as any religion. you may become baptized to become a christian, but don't even try to argue that if you hadn't been exposed to or heard of christianity you still would be christian. you would have never known it existed. just as you are not born as a musician or athlete, you are not born as a christian, muslim, jew, hindu ect. you practice to become something wether it be a musician, athlete, or a member of a religion.
In my Christian faith if when I was just a baby I had died for whatever reason, It is understood that God would have made space for me in heaven So with that in mind this is what I meant by being born a Christian.
@MrMonkeyspanner Then what is this theist fool? : You know full well Atheism was considered untenable virtually the world over until around Enlightenment. That is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time from someone who SAYS they are a theist sans atheist. Only the catholic church made such stupid rules and statements. Well, and you. with your butt buddy the poop probably. Yes,I don't like you at all monkey boy and I will ridicule every thing you write.
@ChooseHeaven Then why do you cover your women and put them behind you at prayers so you can focus on prayer and not on a woman's curves, as the haddith says...??? Or do you not understand rhetorical? If you really did take responsibility for your thoughts and actions you'd see there would be no need for such oppression. So get a pair a keep your hands to yourself.
Its western stupidity for you our women are covered because 1 the quran demands it and 2 cos they believe the quran and WANT to cover up..if other men can see your curves then they are desirable to those men..the quran does not want temptation to be part of islam.this is not oppression.we are following commands and our women are too. Its a pity zionists have nothing to do with the Torah any more you, .the original Torah was the word of God you would have understood if you did
@ChooseHeaven Well, there you go it was a rhetorical question anyway with this very comment as the known quantity. I'm an atheist not a jew. This is one of the problems with your society, you're all so delusional you actually think everyone else is. Then there's the ignorant belief that a religious text like the qu'ran can teach one science etc. Meanwhile you admit your inability to take responsibility for your actions by telling this crowd why you cover your women and blame it on a madman.
You said in another video you are a zionist so which is it?..you people are f**ked up nothing you say or do impresses or surprises me..you stiil manage to knock islam as per usual..well..thats what the NWO is all about..the zionist agenda..you ar doing you bit for them just fine..say whatever you have to say ..no-one is listening at your garbage or what your accomplice bozo's are saying..the game is up anyway..haarp bluebeam fema...we know about all of it..and you ARE a zionist
@ChooseHeaven I could never claim to be a zionist you stupid fool. Obviously you don't listen or read for that matter. You know why, because I was born an atheist and never got around to choosing a delusion or a personal super hero to teach me science. I have said as much over and over. IOW.... I AM AN ATHEIST AND I KNOW GODS AND DEVILS DO NOT EXIST OUTSIDE OF THE MIND OF SCHIZOPHRENICS AND RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS. If one wants to play make believe magic games you can do it in your backyard
@ChooseHeaven And why would the truth hurt??? Truth is a very mind freeing experience, when one takes responsibility for their action it will really open your eyes to the human body / mind collective when in thought and speaking truthfully and you will see how very therapeutic truth can be rather than painful. Actually the reality is that the lies hurt truthful people.... and some have the ability to utilize these weaknesses and exploit them for their own gain. Benni Hinn comes to mind. :-)
@MrMonkeyspanner You dumb ass wanna be scientist. Put down the so called philosophy and do some real reading about real things. You can't leave anyone alone, this fucktard you're arguing with now is on your side you dim wit.
@MrMonkeyspanner Monkeyboy you just can't leave anyone alone can you? Are you the turd buster ? If you want to continue defending a position you said you don't hold everyone can easily tell you're a trolling liar who only wants to get people riled up....well I'm riled up.....bye fucktard
@MrMonkeyspanner Like monarchs are "nobility" even after they stole everyone's money and jewels and went off to save Jerusalem....that idea is out dated anyway...as is the term ..."sin"
@MrMonkeyspanner I'm gonna leave this spam here so everyone can see the ignorance I deal with as a free thinking person who wishes the people of the world could get mental health treatment and encompass the real truth, that we must live THIS life without threatening children they will burn forever in a hell,or whatever punishment the given religion created for it's fear construct. I'm just glad that death is an easy and comfortable transition, I ought to know I died twice and returned.
@MrMonkeyspanner I'm pretty sure you're just plain hateful. Anyone who can not see the atrocities in religious texts is blind and playing stupid to be accepted or you just are. You never make a point, you just want to attack me because you do hate atheism and those who hate religious PEOPLE, not their religion.....you fool
@MrMonkeyspanner Oh no monkey boy you follow me around the whole fucking site and comment with the same words over and over again no matter the subject so you've now grown tedious and boring. Your whole diatribe is a personal attack without amunition or meat to it because, well you don't really have any idea who I am...but I know you-ou-ou-ou...I can tell who you are by the way my grandson laughs at your comments. He just called and asked if monkey boy wrote yet.
@MrMonkeyspanner "Just in the same way as the Christianity was abused to justify crusades and Islam abused to justify murder" funny how you call the christian murders a crusade and the muslims are murderers.......talk about telling on yourself...you're so foolish millions read this shit on my channel...
@MrMonkeyspanner I do understand religion it's you who makes the religions as complicated as you can in order to say, "you can't understand"....it's simple, religion comes from ritual...a worship of a super hero, you want to CALL IT GOD GO AHEAD BUT IN REALITY THEY LOOK FOR A SUPER HERO....AND THERE AREN'T ANY. simple.
@tinkdnuos "And I say that as a pretty committed non-theist" ..... what's your point ? Did you happen to watch the crazy lady do her thing to her teenage son???? Did You>????
@tinkdnuos What does literacy have to do with my anti-christianity not anti christian stand....or do you understand the difference....doubtful. And BTW, there are 1000s of religions so stop thinking yours is so special.
@tinkdnuos So before you start acusing people they should read your comments and understanding them, ... perhaps you should bother thinking yourself first, before commenting on a video ... and not writing a reply without even understanding what he was actually doing in the video. But ... the words you use already show disrespect towards persons you do not even know, so perhaps you do not care and just want to rant here. You talk to strangers you meet in the street like this too?
@tinkdnuos actually, Mr. Earthling commented on that video and after that he simply added more examples, like getting fired and such. He did that because those things HAVE actually HAPPENED in the past. So he started this video and evolved from the subject that got him started, to a general view with more examples. You might have realized that once he mentioned Muhammed.
@tinkdnuos You know what tink, I suppose I am bitter, and why not we have priests molesting children with their "leaders" (men of god) shuffle them from parish to parish........Oh fuck that you know as well as I how religions have been treating women especially but the children's indoctrination is what really makes be BITTER my question is why aren't you?? How can anyone sit back and watch this bullshit go on and not be angry at one's leaders if one is a catholic. etc?? why aren't YOU pissed ?
@MrMonkeyspanner You are so brainwashed by the poop and his minions you actually know these terms and probably even forgiven the NAZIs...I've said all along it is the people who run the religions that are the despots but that too is only an excuse because they use this power to overcome adversaries and say "god told me I could". If you want to be a fence sitting agnostichrist I don't give a shit because I do know how things work and find life and the processes of geology etc rather simple.
@MrMonkeyspanner "Yes, of course you should. Ask anybody who knows anything about psychology and they'll tell you they all need individual help."
You are misinterpreting my question. Schizophrenics are not to be blamed for their illness. Schizophrenia is not a choice and if they didn't have it they would behave normally. Do you not agree?
@MrMonkeyspanner You do not listen, you do not comprehend what you've read. Religions are human constructs used as tools. The men however who built these myths and wrote these dogmatic tenets and manufactured these tools, they are the guilty ones who have indoctrinated humankind for eons...we are tired and are now willing to fight for the reason of reason...
@MrMonkeyspanner See, you just can not understand simple logic and real situations. You fail to understand a very simple concept like. there is no super hero to blame your crap on. My whole point for those who are theistic-ally challenged is that it was not the religions that do anything it is those men who run them etc.and tell the followers what they want them to hear and do...pathetic man.....how can you live with so much bullshit running around in that skull?
@MrMonkeyspanner I just do not believe you, you're not a credible person and you obviously care about my opinion or you would not comment approximately every time I post here, or you have a fetish. I as yet have called you out of your name, yet you continually show your IQ, vernacular acumen, your repertoire and last but not least your zeal and it is clouding your judgement. lastly,You said "I was a physicist, and a philosophy student and after being immersed in it for 5 years, you see god, not!
Respond to this video...Mo aheists I know ever blamed a group or another for starting a war, rather to a man,pardon the pun, we've always known it has mankind's ability to be heinous and greedily murderous without blinking an eye. You can blame an organization but that is just a cop out like "I was only following orders". Even if you want to invoke Hitler said in Mein Kampf that he is doing the lord's work by killing all the jews. He though he was chosen by god to do this thing...
@MrMonkeyspanner Well, intellectuals are not superior in humanity only in academicianship and one can not help but be intelligent when they don't have a magic super hero threatening to banish them if they get knowledge or eat from the "Tree of knowledge" according to your bible that is..and you've done fine dumbing down too. Don't want to get caught being intelligent now would you? no positive affirmative belief in a deity? You say that is dogma??? you went to Oral Roberts U huh??
"Each one of us is an individual that thinks as if this life is our life and you live it like a real man and take responsibility for your actions"
Is that another one of your dogmas or tenets then? Just so happens this IS A SENTIMENT OF THE MAIN WORLD RELIGIONS which you'd know if you ever bothered learning a thing about them. Thing is, you've obviously formed a very strong mental block which prevents you learning anything which contradicts your imaginary world. Get in touch with reality!!!
@MrMonkeyspanner ..Ok..once more for the slower of the class, now pay attention children. Science is not and never has been a way to live, or how to comport one's self, it is a TOOL, PERIOD, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT YET GIVE IT TIME AND SOME CRITICAL THOUGHT AND YOU WILL (accidental caps). Religions on the other hand ARE indoctrination organizations and houses of ill repute including fraud,theft,sexual crimes unreported.I ask you one more time give one example war was fought to not believe
@MrMonkeyspanner Nope just proves that I have decent morals and do not need a deity to tell me about common sense, it's common sense after all you dolt. Oh that's right you christians don't know right from wrong you need your little super hero to tell you how to act so you don't have to take responsibility for your actions. Just like Islam when they put women in a different room or way back so the men can focus on allah and not on women's curves...Take responsibility for your actions!!
@MrMonkeyspanner Well, now there you go right there you said it yourself I was already aware of a logical set of principles before I was ever told of them by any super man or his ghostly son and under aged mom...Mary was 12 at birth which meant.... I've aslways said that knowing right from wrong (morals) is inherent in humankind and it is us who do good or bad things period..
@MrMonkeyspanner There's the same tired old dead argument the religious have tried to use forever. The problem with your strawman logic is that atheism is not a group, organization, meeting, we have no tenet, no dogma. Each one of us is an individual that thinks as if this life is our life and either you live it like a real man and take responsibility for your actions instead of the god,devil or angel the majority of nutjobs worship. you're just sillier and sillier..
@MrMonkeyspanner OK I know this is old but I needed to say....BULLSHIT You can not name one instance when atheists killed theists for anything....I'll wait
@MrMonkeyspanner I know the true reasons for war...it is the tool (religion) used to produce and motivate the warriors that I'm discussing...but you want to turn it into a hate fest as all christians do...you are so hateful you manufacture it for us to have towards your god that we know doesn't even exists therefore can not be angry at...in other words it is the way you christians manipulate children and others into your cult as has been done by all cults from time immemorial
@mathdude28 Probably because they will be disowned by their family or the family will kill the person and hide the fact and then there's the good old apostate.....re;igion is nothing but punishment and death without true love, rather some mythological love for a magician super hero..
@MrMonkeyspanner BTW, spammer.....whether you're a christian or not...you write just like 'em...you seem to have the exact same arguments....I find that a bit odd don't you?
@MrMonkeyspanner I've tried the old "understand where they are coming from" and to "try respecting other's beliefs" Tried 'em to no avail . They are all meatless exercises in nature and we human beings deserve a rational world of reasonable, critical thinking...Only then will we as a world survive to make it to the confederation of galactic order......for lack of a beter term"
@MrMonkeyspanner Wrong again. First the only thing atheists "do" as a group of any caliber is to maybe protest a nativity scene. It is and always will be one religion killing another. anytime you see or hear of war from time immemorial has had religious in nature and genocide in destruction. Usually in the name of a god or prophet.
@MrMonkeyspanner Have you noticed it is you who keeps rambling on to me for no reason. You've yet to actually give any reasonings for any of the positions you have. You allow your friend to get caught up in your paranoid bullshit. My premise has always been and will continue to be that our little part of the universe that I've observed, whether here on planet or off we're not alone and they are not gods. Laugh if you like but remember you think magic made the universe in days....
@MrMonkeyspanner Have you noticed it is you who keeps rambling on to me for no reason. You've yet to actually give any reasonings for any of the positions you have. You allow your friend to get caught up in your paranoid bullshit. My premise has always been and will continue to be that our little part of the universe that I've observed, whether her on planet or not. You can call me names and twist things around to make it seems as if you and I are arguing when we're not. You are alone
@MrMonkeyspanner Again you're wrong......... the E signifies Energy you dolt. The Mis mass of course and the C is the speed of light, also a mathematical constant.
So get it straight.
I wonder why it is that atheists no more about christianity and the bible by a factor of 5 to 1 .....huh???
@zuj1984 dont call him names...i agree that babys dont have the mind capacity to understand religion... but if you dont believe it you aren't of that religeon... you dont necessarily not believe that...but you dont believe it either...
how da fuck do u know what we born like?! u think babies r dumber them grown ups bicoz they yet dont know language and dont move as good? u dont know what/how other people, babies, kids think. my brother in law died, his 3 yo daughter told her mom that she saw her daddy going to the sky. do u think she is lying, halusinating? and she probably was in chirch no more then 2 times
First of all your post in it's entirety is completely unrelated the subject at hand, next you made a basically retarded assumption about what I supposedly "think" (I didn't even hint to anything close to it), and your grammar sucked aswell.
Congratz, you just failed three times in a row.
THIS is why I usually don't bother with people like you...
And seeing as I've already wasted too much time on you I'll bid you adieu.
@zuj1984 Uh...I....uh....don't know how to tell you this but, aren't you Caucasian? And after seeing your channel I might have to go smoke some weed to mellow out that shit hurt my head.
Nobody was born a Christian Shit Fucker - You're raised to believe so.
ATHEIST means no god - it's just a word we made up for something to describe to idiots like you who need a pretend-friend because you can't look reality in the face.
why u gettin angry? dont! do u have demons inside of u? why u hate faith so much, why u hate God so much. u cant proove or disproove it. so tell me, how do u think everything came to existence, all this hormony in the world, in universe, how it came to be? how do u determine right from wrong?
I'm not angry. I don't condemn people to an eternal-time-out. I don't stunt progress in the name of "because my friend said so". "HARMONY" - another 'word' - I believe you cling too much to titles and archtypes. Right and wrong are determined by the collective, a mutual agreement of what is fucked up. Don't discredit yourself - YOU know what is right and wrong because of your own mortality and evolution. Don't let a book tell you how to live my friend - you'll waste your life away.
@zuj1984 You do realize that we see your comments but your grammar etc, is sooooooooo fucking kindergarten I can't believe it. I hope you're not trying to make chlldren with that brain.... BTW....get a race.
@zuj1984 ? We are born believing in a god? Religion is learned. By default, people don't believe in god. Atheism is lack of belief in god. I think you misunderstand that.
@MrMonkeyspanner We were all born atheists ,god is a learned position not a natural occurrence. So to say " atheism hasn't been around long but has been abused to murder countless etc." excuse me?? You haven't learned a thing, you haven't read anything I've written and videos you've seen of mine...How do I know? "atheism hasn't been around long but has been a murderer blah blah" We have no credo,position organization....therefore we don't have a soap box as much as we wish we did.
"Therefore any true statement resolving the paradox (which we all agree exists)"
I don't see the paradox. I don't agree it exists. I am all ears and welcome as lengthy an explanation as you like in a PM if 500 characters is too limiting.
"Allah is supposed to be able to do all things that in no way applies that he *has* to do all things"
Correct, but the part of the koran that says allah can do all things contradicts the part that say there are things allah cannot do, like have a son.
I am happy to tell those muslims that say allah cannot have a son, that with all his alleged power there are things I can do that he can't. AND add that the proof allah does not exist is in the koran and to "read the koran". lol
I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis.
"I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis."
Correct and I said so. It isn't his context, and doesn't provide any credence to any god. It would reduce god to a mere thought. All nonphysical objects that exist are thoughts. Language, logic, mathematics etc... Concepts.
"I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis."
Correct. It renders all that exists and is not physical as thoughts, ideas, concepts. It would render any god as a mere thought of mankind like language, logic and mathematics are.
There are no truths for any god, either empirical (what you were looking for) or tautologous (logical)
I don't think that the belief in a deity such as the invisible pink unicorn is equally valid as is the belief that we can use math and logic to solve problems. Do you?
You are deluded IMO, it's irrelevant whether you are lieing or telling the truth about being a "physics geek" and whatnot, as that provides no credence for your extradoinary claims.
People get accused of this all the time and it's silly really. I read the "flagged comments" first usually. lol. In my opinion it highlights them. Sad that youtube does this really. Pay no attention to it or the accusations. Just a bit more fun out here to haggle over.
@Anon12356 He probably is trying to garner support for his cry baby position of the victim. "You keep picking on me and my delusion" "Waaaaah" I never flag ones comment because of the simple reason that when most do comment especially like you they aren't making much sense and I'm way too far above such junk to allow it to change the way I do things.
You said their belief was that allah can do anything that is possible to do. It is possible to have a son. It is not impossible.
The muslim I talked to said it was possible btw, he said allah simply chose not to have a son. That is consistent with one part of the koran, and inconsistent with the part that says allah can do all things.
Anyway, having a son is done all the time. I did it
"Whether open or closed, every cosmology ultimately has a 'big bang' of some description."
Frankly I think one look at the stars shows how a big bang is ridiculous to assume. Nothing in what I see from the shape or position of different galaxies lends itself to any big bang. My position is that the big bang is probably the least likely of any possible explanations. I grant very little to theoretical physics on deep space, since they can't count the number of moons for Saturn
@gklr That's just as bad as saying Evolution is a theory and not proven so god is real and creation is the truth. But if you had an actual scientific mind you'd already know that a science theory is not a question of validity but of substance and can be a proven experiment.
Well with or without a big bang, time cannot begin and if time exists then so too does mass and energy. So essentially it does not matter. No pun intended.
"I don't have any time for those people. I will and can only believe something if it is proven"
Here is where both of you and anon are wrong. No belief is proven. Beliefs have 3 types, inductive logic uses assumption, subjective beliefs are our tastes and opinions, and myths. None of them are proven. Only truths are proven. Empirical truths for science, tautologous truths for logic.
5 propositional types, 2 truth types, 3 belief types. No other way exists to express a state of affairs.
"Which is why I originally warned you that you *may* get problems there."
I didn't and won't. The problems you pose are not in agreement with islam or the koran. I can quote muslim after muslim saying truth is absolute, god knows all, etc.... it is a simple chore.
When they say the things you say they do, then they disagree with their own koran. A common occurance for christians too. I do not expect or need their agreement. I know they will shut off their brain.
You said muslims countered you with "allah can do what is possible".
It is possible to have a son. It is not impossible to have a son. Having a son is not "P and not P at the same time" which is a logical contradiction and the only way to show what is impossible.
Allah cannot do anything as the koran says, and also cannot do all things that are possible. You should have asked the muslim "what is impossible about having a son?"
The big bang does not exist. It may have existed, but surely no-one maintains that it exists right now.
We do refute the big bang, often. I'd say the big bang is in more trouble today than ever and those casting doubt on it are increasingly vocal. How many big bang theories are there? I've lost count.
I ridicule the big bang as theistic nonsense myself. I give it no credibility whatsoever as a theory.
"The concept of a non physical universe in itself is a paradox. I have given proof that a non-physical entity must exist of necessity if we accept physics and our observations from physics"
No you haven't. Nonphysical things are 100% independant of any physics. Nothing is necessary due to physics. Necessity is exclusive to logic. There is no empirical truth (physics) that is necessary. Physical reality is contingent, logic is never contingent on facts.
" have had precisely this debate with many muslims, from basic believers to scholars and they all say the same thing."
So have I and that is false to say. There is no such consensus among any 2 people, let alone an entire congregation. The muslim that replied to me on youtube when I raised this argument did not say any such thing as you did. The answers you give for them are lame, since having a son is possible. It sounds to me like you did not apply yourself in those discussions.
MrMonkey: again you may wish to interpret it this way
The Angels
35:1 Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
It says allah is able to do all things.
"They say Allah can do anything which is possible"
You can't even prove anything exists other than the physical universe. Prove a non-physical universe actually exists, then maybe people would actually start taking you seriously lol.
"You can't even prove anything exists other than the physical universe"
Yes he could. However all nonphysical things that exist are.... thoughts. Ideas.
1+1=2 is true, proving the number 1 exists. There is no physical object that exists that is "the number 1".
That we can prove nonphysical things exist, does not in any way lend credence to that there is a god. The only nonphysical things that do exist are thoughts.
If god is capable of creating the whole universe he should be more than capable of coming down to earth, saying "HEY GUISE HERE I AM LOLOLOL!" on live tv for everyone to see, and prove his own existance.
What's insane is believing in a bronze age sky god that talks to you when you pray to him. That's insane. If something can't be shown to exist, I'm not going to beleive in it. That's what I meant to say.
"I expect if he's a muslim that knows his stuff you'll have a problem there."
The koran says allah can do anything. Hadiths are nowhere near as influential among muslims.
"The generally accepted definition of Allah in Islam is the 99 names and attributes"
Even that list says allah is capable of doing anything, knows all things etc.... They must say Allah has absolute knowledge/power or they contradict both the list of 99 attributes and their own koran.
"Well if its necessarily outside of physics it doesn't exist."
Never heard of logic then? Numbers? Language? All outside of physics. Indeed all necessities are. Truths about physical objects are contingent on facts. Truths about logical objects are necessary. ie: it is true you exist, contingent on you existing. It is not necessary that you exist.
How do you know I exist? You can verify that by "talking" with me, if you needed more proof you could even meet me IRL (for example). Do you have any such evidence for god? No.
I don't know it is true, I believe it is true and "know it" by assuming whoever sent me that message has not died since they sent it, nevermind that I also assume I am not hallucinating it, or that I wasn't just created 1 second ago with programmed memories of myself existing beforehand. I know I exist now is true, and believe I did exist 1 second ago.
We prove something exists by stating 1 truth about it. I have none for you, only beliefs.
"You can verify that by "talking" with me, if you needed more proof you could even meet me IRL (for example). Do you have any such evidence for god? No."
We agree we need verification. That is a good start. :)
And no, there is no such evidence as that, for any god, correct.
@gklr Now wait just a minute here, Physics IS numbers, mathematics in just about every form is explained and may explain matter, physics, energies, so I'm not sure I understand your explanation of math and numbers being ..mmm unreal? non-physical? is there another phrase you can manage to manufacture for the description...So it seems it is semantics that is the real non physical oxymoron position.....just as everything else is then I suppose.
Numbers are not physical things, they are concepts. Ditto logic or language. These exist outside of physics.
"It is raining out or it is not raining out" is true independent of the fact of whether or not it is raining. Independent of the fact, this truth stands.... because it is a logical truth and is not based on scienctific fact.
It's not numbers are not real, it's that they are real and not material. Metaphysical.
Nonexistence is shown via logical contradictions. A contradiction is expressed as P and not P at the same time. P stands for proposition. The subject of P, cannot exist, in P and not P at the same time. eg: the ball is on fire and is not on fire at the same time. That ball cannot exist. We apply this to claims about gods like allah or the god of the bible and they go POOF.
Okay, well that was poor phrasing on my part, what I meant to say was I wouldn't believe in such a thing without evidence. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, and there is no such evidence for any god. Not to mention the bible, koran and torah are full to the brim with contrdictions. Thanks for the education on logical contradictions though.
I was trying to explain Quines argument and did not see it post so I thought it fell through the cracks at youtube and stopped.
The 30 NHL teams example shows T and T is F, which violates all laws of logic. So how is it overcome?
"There are 30 NHL teams" is not necessary. It is an empirical truth, contingent. 30 > 27 is necessary, not contingent. The two types of truth do not intersect. ie: they cannot be used in the same argument to resolve a truth.
The point in raising the difference between a contingent truth and a necessary one is that facts apply only to empirical truths (percieved objects).
example of a tautologous truth (concieved objects) is "it is raining out or it is not raining out" which is true via logic only. It is true independant of the fact. ie: if it is raining out it is true, if it is not raining out it is true.
Lol their Jesus would send them to eternal torture for not believing in him is what he'd do.
StormHornet56 4 months ago
I was born a Christian you speak for yourself
FeignofCordor 8 months ago
@FeignofCordor That just sounds stupid. And look at your profile pic.....tsk tsk tsk ....what a man!
JstNEarthling 8 months ago
@FeignofCordor We are all born Humans. Parents inject the religion.
Vikramthewhite 6 months ago
@Vikramthewhite
I`m still human and as a adult I came back to my faith as a Christian and not by blind faith.
FeignofCordor 6 months ago
@FeignofCordor That made no sense. Also my point is you are born a human (Default without faith). Later on you get faith.
Vikramthewhite 6 months ago
@Vikramthewhite
If It made no sense how come you answered what was in my comment?
FeignofCordor 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@FeignofCordor To tell you that it made no sense..
Vikramthewhite 6 months ago
@FeignofCordor you are not born as any religion. you may become baptized to become a christian, but don't even try to argue that if you hadn't been exposed to or heard of christianity you still would be christian. you would have never known it existed. just as you are not born as a musician or athlete, you are not born as a christian, muslim, jew, hindu ect. you practice to become something wether it be a musician, athlete, or a member of a religion.
sabianhhxevolution 1 month ago
@sabianhhxevolution
In my Christian faith if when I was just a baby I had died for whatever reason, It is understood that God would have made space for me in heaven So with that in mind this is what I meant by being born a Christian.
FeignofCordor 1 month ago
@JstNEEasrtling,Right on brother SS
sailingsolar 8 months ago
Right on brother SS
sailingsolar 8 months ago
BTW....I'm the one who is kicking monkeyboy around and removing him, it's a troll.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Then what is this theist fool? : You know full well Atheism was considered untenable virtually the world over until around Enlightenment. That is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time from someone who SAYS they are a theist sans atheist. Only the catholic church made such stupid rules and statements. Well, and you. with your butt buddy the poop probably. Yes,I don't like you at all monkey boy and I will ridicule every thing you write.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
Thats incorrect brother!!
NOBODY is born an atheist..every baby is born innocent and is a muslim..
ChooseHeaven 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven Shut up you stupid stone age freak. Go sweep your dirt floor.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
Thruth hurts doesnt it..
ChooseHeaven 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven Why? Don't you take responsibility for your actions?
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
Always do..one of the virtues of our religion
ChooseHeaven 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven Then why do you cover your women and put them behind you at prayers so you can focus on prayer and not on a woman's curves, as the haddith says...??? Or do you not understand rhetorical? If you really did take responsibility for your thoughts and actions you'd see there would be no need for such oppression. So get a pair a keep your hands to yourself.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
Its western stupidity for you our women are covered because 1 the quran demands it and 2 cos they believe the quran and WANT to cover up..if other men can see your curves then they are desirable to those men..the quran does not want temptation to be part of islam.this is not oppression.we are following commands and our women are too. Its a pity zionists have nothing to do with the Torah any more you, .the original Torah was the word of God you would have understood if you did
ChooseHeaven 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven Well, there you go it was a rhetorical question anyway with this very comment as the known quantity. I'm an atheist not a jew. This is one of the problems with your society, you're all so delusional you actually think everyone else is. Then there's the ignorant belief that a religious text like the qu'ran can teach one science etc. Meanwhile you admit your inability to take responsibility for your actions by telling this crowd why you cover your women and blame it on a madman.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
You said in another video you are a zionist so which is it?..you people are f**ked up nothing you say or do impresses or surprises me..you stiil manage to knock islam as per usual..well..thats what the NWO is all about..the zionist agenda..you ar doing you bit for them just fine..say whatever you have to say ..no-one is listening at your garbage or what your accomplice bozo's are saying..the game is up anyway..haarp bluebeam fema...we know about all of it..and you ARE a zionist
ChooseHeaven 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven I could never claim to be a zionist you stupid fool. Obviously you don't listen or read for that matter. You know why, because I was born an atheist and never got around to choosing a delusion or a personal super hero to teach me science. I have said as much over and over. IOW.... I AM AN ATHEIST AND I KNOW GODS AND DEVILS DO NOT EXIST OUTSIDE OF THE MIND OF SCHIZOPHRENICS AND RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS. If one wants to play make believe magic games you can do it in your backyard
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@ChooseHeaven And why would the truth hurt??? Truth is a very mind freeing experience, when one takes responsibility for their action it will really open your eyes to the human body / mind collective when in thought and speaking truthfully and you will see how very therapeutic truth can be rather than painful. Actually the reality is that the lies hurt truthful people.... and some have the ability to utilize these weaknesses and exploit them for their own gain. Benni Hinn comes to mind. :-)
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner You dumb ass wanna be scientist. Put down the so called philosophy and do some real reading about real things. You can't leave anyone alone, this fucktard you're arguing with now is on your side you dim wit.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner No you can't, clarification of a delusion is called schizophrenia.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner You said it monkey boy...deluded and obviously lying. BTW... philosophy is just as questionable as theology....
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Monkeyboy you just can't leave anyone alone can you? Are you the turd buster ? If you want to continue defending a position you said you don't hold everyone can easily tell you're a trolling liar who only wants to get people riled up....well I'm riled up.....bye fucktard
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Like monarchs are "nobility" even after they stole everyone's money and jewels and went off to save Jerusalem....that idea is out dated anyway...as is the term ..."sin"
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I'm gonna leave this spam here so everyone can see the ignorance I deal with as a free thinking person who wishes the people of the world could get mental health treatment and encompass the real truth, that we must live THIS life without threatening children they will burn forever in a hell,or whatever punishment the given religion created for it's fear construct. I'm just glad that death is an easy and comfortable transition, I ought to know I died twice and returned.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner yeah why weren't they?
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner you're not philosophical you're a blatherskite..
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner you're a christian who is embarrassed to be so...I get it.......ssshhhhhhhhhhhhh
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I'm pretty sure you're just plain hateful. Anyone who can not see the atrocities in religious texts is blind and playing stupid to be accepted or you just are. You never make a point, you just want to attack me because you do hate atheism and those who hate religious PEOPLE, not their religion.....you fool
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Oh no monkey boy you follow me around the whole fucking site and comment with the same words over and over again no matter the subject so you've now grown tedious and boring. Your whole diatribe is a personal attack without amunition or meat to it because, well you don't really have any idea who I am...but I know you-ou-ou-ou...I can tell who you are by the way my grandson laughs at your comments. He just called and asked if monkey boy wrote yet.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner "Just in the same way as the Christianity was abused to justify crusades and Islam abused to justify murder" funny how you call the christian murders a crusade and the muslims are murderers.......talk about telling on yourself...you're so foolish millions read this shit on my channel...
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner THE SO CALLED LOGICAL DEFAULT IS THE IDIOTS WHO SAY , "EVOLUTION IS STILL A THEORY, THEREFORE GOD IS REAL" ....in so many words...
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I do understand religion it's you who makes the religions as complicated as you can in order to say, "you can't understand"....it's simple, religion comes from ritual...a worship of a super hero, you want to CALL IT GOD GO AHEAD BUT IN REALITY THEY LOOK FOR A SUPER HERO....AND THERE AREN'T ANY. simple.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
Wow...
Dude, you're just a ridiculously bitter asshole.
And I say that as a pretty committed non-theist.
tinkdnuos 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos "And I say that as a pretty committed non-theist" ..... what's your point ? Did you happen to watch the crazy lady do her thing to her teenage son???? Did You>????
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling Yes, I watched the original video. Now, perhaps it's been edited, but I didn't see everything you seem to have seen there.
But you move quickly from criticism of abhorrent behavior into a shallow tirade against christianity. It's bitter.
tinkdnuos 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos so then you are not actually an atheist.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling Are you fucking illiterate?
Or do you really think "atheism" just means "anti-christian?"
tinkdnuos 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos What does literacy have to do with my anti-christianity not anti christian stand....or do you understand the difference....doubtful. And BTW, there are 1000s of religions so stop thinking yours is so special.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling Literacy has to do with your inability to read and understand my comments, you raging fucktard.
tinkdnuos 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos So before you start acusing people they should read your comments and understanding them, ... perhaps you should bother thinking yourself first, before commenting on a video ... and not writing a reply without even understanding what he was actually doing in the video. But ... the words you use already show disrespect towards persons you do not even know, so perhaps you do not care and just want to rant here. You talk to strangers you meet in the street like this too?
JungleHyena 11 months ago
@JungleHyena sometimes
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos actually, Mr. Earthling commented on that video and after that he simply added more examples, like getting fired and such. He did that because those things HAVE actually HAPPENED in the past. So he started this video and evolved from the subject that got him started, to a general view with more examples. You might have realized that once he mentioned Muhammed.
JungleHyena 11 months ago
@JungleHyena Thank you for paying attention.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@tinkdnuos You know what tink, I suppose I am bitter, and why not we have priests molesting children with their "leaders" (men of god) shuffle them from parish to parish........Oh fuck that you know as well as I how religions have been treating women especially but the children's indoctrination is what really makes be BITTER my question is why aren't you?? How can anyone sit back and watch this bullshit go on and not be angry at one's leaders if one is a catholic. etc?? why aren't YOU pissed ?
JstNEarthling 10 months ago 4
@MrMonkeyspanner You are so brainwashed by the poop and his minions you actually know these terms and probably even forgiven the NAZIs...I've said all along it is the people who run the religions that are the despots but that too is only an excuse because they use this power to overcome adversaries and say "god told me I could". If you want to be a fence sitting agnostichrist I don't give a shit because I do know how things work and find life and the processes of geology etc rather simple.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner "Yes, of course you should. Ask anybody who knows anything about psychology and they'll tell you they all need individual help."
You are misinterpreting my question. Schizophrenics are not to be blamed for their illness. Schizophrenia is not a choice and if they didn't have it they would behave normally. Do you not agree?
Ronni3no2 11 months ago
@Ronni3no2 he tends to do that, he's one of those who has millions of mechanistic ideas to utilize for just this purpose. It's like,
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner You do not listen, you do not comprehend what you've read. Religions are human constructs used as tools. The men however who built these myths and wrote these dogmatic tenets and manufactured these tools, they are the guilty ones who have indoctrinated humankind for eons...we are tired and are now willing to fight for the reason of reason...
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner See, you just can not understand simple logic and real situations. You fail to understand a very simple concept like. there is no super hero to blame your crap on. My whole point for those who are theistic-ally challenged is that it was not the religions that do anything it is those men who run them etc.and tell the followers what they want them to hear and do...pathetic man.....how can you live with so much bullshit running around in that skull?
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner You sir, are not making sense. Should we also blame individual schizophrenics and never attempt to get rid of schizophrenia?
Ronni3no2 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I just do not believe you, you're not a credible person and you obviously care about my opinion or you would not comment approximately every time I post here, or you have a fetish. I as yet have called you out of your name, yet you continually show your IQ, vernacular acumen, your repertoire and last but not least your zeal and it is clouding your judgement. lastly,You said "I was a physicist, and a philosophy student and after being immersed in it for 5 years, you see god, not!
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
Respond to this video...Mo aheists I know ever blamed a group or another for starting a war, rather to a man,pardon the pun, we've always known it has mankind's ability to be heinous and greedily murderous without blinking an eye. You can blame an organization but that is just a cop out like "I was only following orders". Even if you want to invoke Hitler said in Mein Kampf that he is doing the lord's work by killing all the jews. He though he was chosen by god to do this thing...
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner or the inquisition, pope sanctioned and BTW why have none, not one, of the NAZIs and collaberaters not excommunicated???
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Well, intellectuals are not superior in humanity only in academicianship and one can not help but be intelligent when they don't have a magic super hero threatening to banish them if they get knowledge or eat from the "Tree of knowledge" according to your bible that is..and you've done fine dumbing down too. Don't want to get caught being intelligent now would you? no positive affirmative belief in a deity? You say that is dogma??? you went to Oral Roberts U huh??
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
my favorite story is noahs ark because its just so fucking funny
CrazyMonkey1235 1 year ago
lol.. awkward moment.. guy walks in and he says "Ejaculates! Bam!"
anyway, perspective is everything.
perspective is the conclusion you come to when your criteria for determining truth has been met.
some of us just have a stricter, more concise, evidence-based criteria for determining what's true than others.
and we shall be condemned to hell for it by a supposed loving, understanding god.
lol
westt44 1 year ago
@westt44 Yep......I'm goin' ta hell for gettin smart and shit
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@JstNEarthling
i was being sarcastic when i said that. lol
westt44 1 year ago
@westt44 s'ok. I thought so...so be it...err.. Make it So..
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
"Each one of us is an individual that thinks as if this life is our life and you live it like a real man and take responsibility for your actions"
Is that another one of your dogmas or tenets then? Just so happens this IS A SENTIMENT OF THE MAIN WORLD RELIGIONS which you'd know if you ever bothered learning a thing about them. Thing is, you've obviously formed a very strong mental block which prevents you learning anything which contradicts your imaginary world. Get in touch with reality!!!
MrMonkeyspanner 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner ..Ok..once more for the slower of the class, now pay attention children. Science is not and never has been a way to live, or how to comport one's self, it is a TOOL, PERIOD, IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IT YET GIVE IT TIME AND SOME CRITICAL THOUGHT AND YOU WILL (accidental caps). Religions on the other hand ARE indoctrination organizations and houses of ill repute including fraud,theft,sexual crimes unreported.I ask you one more time give one example war was fought to not believe
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Nope just proves that I have decent morals and do not need a deity to tell me about common sense, it's common sense after all you dolt. Oh that's right you christians don't know right from wrong you need your little super hero to tell you how to act so you don't have to take responsibility for your actions. Just like Islam when they put women in a different room or way back so the men can focus on allah and not on women's curves...Take responsibility for your actions!!
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Well, now there you go right there you said it yourself I was already aware of a logical set of principles before I was ever told of them by any super man or his ghostly son and under aged mom...Mary was 12 at birth which meant.... I've aslways said that knowing right from wrong (morals) is inherent in humankind and it is us who do good or bad things period..
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Written by men you fucking asinine idiot!!!! Spammer...
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner There's the same tired old dead argument the religious have tried to use forever. The problem with your strawman logic is that atheism is not a group, organization, meeting, we have no tenet, no dogma. Each one of us is an individual that thinks as if this life is our life and either you live it like a real man and take responsibility for your actions instead of the god,devil or angel the majority of nutjobs worship. you're just sillier and sillier..
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner OK I know this is old but I needed to say....BULLSHIT You can not name one instance when atheists killed theists for anything....I'll wait
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I know the true reasons for war...it is the tool (religion) used to produce and motivate the warriors that I'm discussing...but you want to turn it into a hate fest as all christians do...you are so hateful you manufacture it for us to have towards your god that we know doesn't even exists therefore can not be angry at...in other words it is the way you christians manipulate children and others into your cult as has been done by all cults from time immemorial
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner because theology is the STUDY OF THEOLOGY...which has nothing to do with believing in it...
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
it wont be long before we will see young atheist children committing suicide.
mathdude28 1 year ago
@mathdude28 Probably because they will be disowned by their family or the family will kill the person and hide the fact and then there's the good old apostate.....re;igion is nothing but punishment and death without true love, rather some mythological love for a magician super hero..
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner BTW, spammer.....whether you're a christian or not...you write just like 'em...you seem to have the exact same arguments....I find that a bit odd don't you?
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner I've tried the old "understand where they are coming from" and to "try respecting other's beliefs" Tried 'em to no avail . They are all meatless exercises in nature and we human beings deserve a rational world of reasonable, critical thinking...Only then will we as a world survive to make it to the confederation of galactic order......for lack of a beter term"
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Wrong again. First the only thing atheists "do" as a group of any caliber is to maybe protest a nativity scene. It is and always will be one religion killing another. anytime you see or hear of war from time immemorial has had religious in nature and genocide in destruction. Usually in the name of a god or prophet.
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Have you noticed it is you who keeps rambling on to me for no reason. You've yet to actually give any reasonings for any of the positions you have. You allow your friend to get caught up in your paranoid bullshit. My premise has always been and will continue to be that our little part of the universe that I've observed, whether here on planet or off we're not alone and they are not gods. Laugh if you like but remember you think magic made the universe in days....
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Have you noticed it is you who keeps rambling on to me for no reason. You've yet to actually give any reasonings for any of the positions you have. You allow your friend to get caught up in your paranoid bullshit. My premise has always been and will continue to be that our little part of the universe that I've observed, whether her on planet or not. You can call me names and twist things around to make it seems as if you and I are arguing when we're not. You are alone
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner Again you're wrong......... the E signifies Energy you dolt. The Mis mass of course and the C is the speed of light, also a mathematical constant.
So get it straight.
I wonder why it is that atheists no more about christianity and the bible by a factor of 5 to 1 .....huh???
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
lol at the background 2:46
ThatsBooji 1 year ago
nobody was born an atheist u dumb ass
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984 dont call him names...i agree that babys dont have the mind capacity to understand religion... but if you dont believe it you aren't of that religeon... you dont necessarily not believe that...but you dont believe it either...
ThatsBooji 1 year ago
@zuj1984
We are ALL born as an atheist.
Atheism is the LACK of a belief in god, and everyone is born without knowledge of the concept of god.
Once introduced to that concept you can believe (theist), be unsure either way (Agnostic), or still don't believe it (Atheist).
Ugh... why do I even bother.
Seymour13 1 year ago
@Seymour13
how da fuck do u know what we born like?! u think babies r dumber them grown ups bicoz they yet dont know language and dont move as good? u dont know what/how other people, babies, kids think. my brother in law died, his 3 yo daughter told her mom that she saw her daddy going to the sky. do u think she is lying, halusinating? and she probably was in chirch no more then 2 times
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984
Wow... your reply completely missed the point.
First of all your post in it's entirety is completely unrelated the subject at hand, next you made a basically retarded assumption about what I supposedly "think" (I didn't even hint to anything close to it), and your grammar sucked aswell.
Congratz, you just failed three times in a row.
THIS is why I usually don't bother with people like you...
And seeing as I've already wasted too much time on you I'll bid you adieu.
Have a nice life.
Seymour13 1 year ago
@Seymour13
thank u simur, u lick balls gygygygygy
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984
No, thank YOU for proving my point ^^.
Seymour13 1 year ago
@zuj1984 Okay,, did ya study ebonics or something?? do you really write this way??
JstNEarthling 6 months ago
@zuj1984 Uh...I....uh....don't know how to tell you this but, aren't you Caucasian? And after seeing your channel I might have to go smoke some weed to mellow out that shit hurt my head.
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@JstNEarthling
thats bicoz u week
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....WTF?????????????? You'are one goofy wiggah....
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
wiggah is what ur ugly mama takes in her booty gygygy!!! u r litl goody feggit
zuj1984 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling
u pussy ass bitch!
zuj1984 11 months ago
@zuj1984 did you come out of your mothers pussy bilieving in God?
CrazyMonkey1235 1 year ago
@zuj1984
Nobody was born a Christian Shit Fucker - You're raised to believe so.
ATHEIST means no god - it's just a word we made up for something to describe to idiots like you who need a pretend-friend because you can't look reality in the face.
GOD was created for the weak and the weak-minded.
newloser 1 year ago
Comment removed
zuj1984 1 year ago
@newloser
why u gettin angry? dont! do u have demons inside of u? why u hate faith so much, why u hate God so much. u cant proove or disproove it. so tell me, how do u think everything came to existence, all this hormony in the world, in universe, how it came to be? how do u determine right from wrong?
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984
I'm not angry. I don't condemn people to an eternal-time-out. I don't stunt progress in the name of "because my friend said so". "HARMONY" - another 'word' - I believe you cling too much to titles and archtypes. Right and wrong are determined by the collective, a mutual agreement of what is fucked up. Don't discredit yourself - YOU know what is right and wrong because of your own mortality and evolution. Don't let a book tell you how to live my friend - you'll waste your life away.
newloser 1 year ago
@newloser
do u have kids? how old r u?
zuj1984 1 year ago
@zuj1984 Because it educates like you are.....
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@zuj1984 You do realize that we see your comments but your grammar etc, is sooooooooo fucking kindergarten I can't believe it. I hope you're not trying to make chlldren with that brain.... BTW....get a race.
JstNEarthling 6 months ago
@zuj1984 So, since you don't understand science and the scientific principle, then by default, it was all created by magic?
JstNEarthling 6 months ago
@JstNEarthling
I understand laws of physics not less then you do, at least. Created! Without magic
zuj1984 4 months ago
@zuj1984 ? We are born believing in a god? Religion is learned. By default, people don't believe in god. Atheism is lack of belief in god. I think you misunderstand that.
mitchyd89 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Okay, cool. thanks.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner We were all born atheists ,god is a learned position not a natural occurrence. So to say " atheism hasn't been around long but has been abused to murder countless etc." excuse me?? You haven't learned a thing, you haven't read anything I've written and videos you've seen of mine...How do I know? "atheism hasn't been around long but has been a murderer blah blah" We have no credo,position organization....therefore we don't have a soap box as much as we wish we did.
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
So matter can be destroyed.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
1) anti-matter?
2) Just because we don't know everything doesn't prove god at all.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Oh, cool.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
I have a room to paint and a family to tend to so I will... be back. lol
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
"Therefore any true statement resolving the paradox (which we all agree exists)"
I don't see the paradox. I don't agree it exists. I am all ears and welcome as lengthy an explanation as you like in a PM if 500 characters is too limiting.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkey
"Allah is supposed to be able to do all things that in no way applies that he *has* to do all things"
Correct, but the part of the koran that says allah can do all things contradicts the part that say there are things allah cannot do, like have a son.
I am happy to tell those muslims that say allah cannot have a son, that with all his alleged power there are things I can do that he can't. AND add that the proof allah does not exist is in the koran and to "read the koran". lol
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis.
Anon12356 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Anon12356,
"I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis."
Correct and I said so. It isn't his context, and doesn't provide any credence to any god. It would reduce god to a mere thought. All nonphysical objects that exist are thoughts. Language, logic, mathematics etc... Concepts.
gklr 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
2nd try at a reply:
"I don't think that is the context mrmonkeysspanner was using a "non-physical universe" in. But lets suppose it is. This still provides no credence to his god hypothesis."
Correct. It renders all that exists and is not physical as thoughts, ideas, concepts. It would render any god as a mere thought of mankind like language, logic and mathematics are.
There are no truths for any god, either empirical (what you were looking for) or tautologous (logical)
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
I don't think that the belief in a deity such as the invisible pink unicorn is equally valid as is the belief that we can use math and logic to solve problems. Do you?
We can verify maths and logic.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Well then if the god hypothesis is based upon a non-physical universe it is a paradox.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
You are deluded IMO, it's irrelevant whether you are lieing or telling the truth about being a "physics geek" and whatnot, as that provides no credence for your extradoinary claims.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
You're flagging them yourself, or op is.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
"You're flagging them yourself, or op is"
It is the new and improved youtube. Enjoy?
People get accused of this all the time and it's silly really. I read the "flagged comments" first usually. lol. In my opinion it highlights them. Sad that youtube does this really. Pay no attention to it or the accusations. Just a bit more fun out here to haggle over.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
Yes, bad youtube! >:(
Anon12356 1 year ago
@Anon12356 He probably is trying to garner support for his cry baby position of the victim. "You keep picking on me and my delusion" "Waaaaah" I never flag ones comment because of the simple reason that when most do comment especially like you they aren't making much sense and I'm way too far above such junk to allow it to change the way I do things.
JstNEarthling 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
gklr: "It is possible to have a son"
MM: That is not possible in their belief
You said their belief was that allah can do anything that is possible to do. It is possible to have a son. It is not impossible.
The muslim I talked to said it was possible btw, he said allah simply chose not to have a son. That is consistent with one part of the koran, and inconsistent with the part that says allah can do all things.
Anyway, having a son is done all the time. I did it
gklr 1 year ago
@Mr
"Whether open or closed, every cosmology ultimately has a 'big bang' of some description."
Frankly I think one look at the stars shows how a big bang is ridiculous to assume. Nothing in what I see from the shape or position of different galaxies lends itself to any big bang. My position is that the big bang is probably the least likely of any possible explanations. I grant very little to theoretical physics on deep space, since they can't count the number of moons for Saturn
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr That's just as bad as saying Evolution is a theory and not proven so god is real and creation is the truth. But if you had an actual scientific mind you'd already know that a science theory is not a question of validity but of substance and can be a proven experiment.
JstNEarthling 10 months ago
@JstNEarthling,
why write to me, when you delete my replies?
gklr 10 months ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
Well with or without a big bang, time cannot begin and if time exists then so too does mass and energy. So essentially it does not matter. No pun intended.
gklr 1 year ago
@M
"I don't have any time for those people. I will and can only believe something if it is proven"
Here is where both of you and anon are wrong. No belief is proven. Beliefs have 3 types, inductive logic uses assumption, subjective beliefs are our tastes and opinions, and myths. None of them are proven. Only truths are proven. Empirical truths for science, tautologous truths for logic.
5 propositional types, 2 truth types, 3 belief types. No other way exists to express a state of affairs.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
"Which is why I originally warned you that you *may* get problems there."
I didn't and won't. The problems you pose are not in agreement with islam or the koran. I can quote muslim after muslim saying truth is absolute, god knows all, etc.... it is a simple chore.
When they say the things you say they do, then they disagree with their own koran. A common occurance for christians too. I do not expect or need their agreement. I know they will shut off their brain.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
You said muslims countered you with "allah can do what is possible".
It is possible to have a son. It is not impossible to have a son. Having a son is not "P and not P at the same time" which is a logical contradiction and the only way to show what is impossible.
Allah cannot do anything as the koran says, and also cannot do all things that are possible. You should have asked the muslim "what is impossible about having a son?"
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
The big bang does not exist. It may have existed, but surely no-one maintains that it exists right now.
We do refute the big bang, often. I'd say the big bang is in more trouble today than ever and those casting doubt on it are increasingly vocal. How many big bang theories are there? I've lost count.
I ridicule the big bang as theistic nonsense myself. I give it no credibility whatsoever as a theory.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
"The concept of a non physical universe in itself is a paradox. I have given proof that a non-physical entity must exist of necessity if we accept physics and our observations from physics"
No you haven't. Nonphysical things are 100% independant of any physics. Nothing is necessary due to physics. Necessity is exclusive to logic. There is no empirical truth (physics) that is necessary. Physical reality is contingent, logic is never contingent on facts.
gklr 1 year ago
@Mr
" have had precisely this debate with many muslims, from basic believers to scholars and they all say the same thing."
So have I and that is false to say. There is no such consensus among any 2 people, let alone an entire congregation. The muslim that replied to me on youtube when I raised this argument did not say any such thing as you did. The answers you give for them are lame, since having a son is possible. It sounds to me like you did not apply yourself in those discussions.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
gklr: The koran says allah can do anything.
MrMonkey: again you may wish to interpret it this way
The Angels
35:1 Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. He multiplieth in creation what He will. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
It says allah is able to do all things.
"They say Allah can do anything which is possible"
It is possible to have a son.
gklr 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrMonkeyspanner,
gklr: Even that list says allah is capable of doing anything, knows all things etc....
MrMonkey: "I have to disagree"
The list of 99 attributes says:
20 Al-^Aleem
The All-knowing, The Knowledgeable; The One nothing is absent from His knowledge.
This is absolute knowledge.
"*anyone* who can read arabic will tell you that the expressions are superlative, not absolute."
Sounds to me like you have been duped. Show me the cleric that denies absolute truth
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Can you provide any scientific evidence at all? (rhetorical question)
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
You can't even prove anything exists other than the physical universe. Prove a non-physical universe actually exists, then maybe people would actually start taking you seriously lol.
Anon12356 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Anon12356,
"You can't even prove anything exists other than the physical universe"
Yes he could. However all nonphysical things that exist are.... thoughts. Ideas.
1+1=2 is true, proving the number 1 exists. There is no physical object that exists that is "the number 1".
That we can prove nonphysical things exist, does not in any way lend credence to that there is a god. The only nonphysical things that do exist are thoughts.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Maybe most people would. Because although most people are religious, they know that really all the crap they profess to believe in is just fiction.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
If god is capable of creating the whole universe he should be more than capable of coming down to earth, saying "HEY GUISE HERE I AM LOLOLOL!" on live tv for everyone to see, and prove his own existance.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
What's insane is believing in a bronze age sky god that talks to you when you pray to him. That's insane. If something can't be shown to exist, I'm not going to beleive in it. That's what I meant to say.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner,
"I expect if he's a muslim that knows his stuff you'll have a problem there."
The koran says allah can do anything. Hadiths are nowhere near as influential among muslims.
"The generally accepted definition of Allah in Islam is the 99 names and attributes"
Even that list says allah is capable of doing anything, knows all things etc.... They must say Allah has absolute knowledge/power or they contradict both the list of 99 attributes and their own koran.
gklr 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
And god says nothing of why. God says "this is what a bronze age desert tribe hallucinating while dehydrated thought why".
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Of course physics can't. Unfortunately things that don't exist tend not to leave a lot of evidence of their non-existance, do they?
Anon12356 1 year ago
@MrMonkeyspanner
Well if its necessarily outside of physics it doesn't exist.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
"Well if its necessarily outside of physics it doesn't exist."
Never heard of logic then? Numbers? Language? All outside of physics. Indeed all necessities are. Truths about physical objects are contingent on facts. Truths about logical objects are necessary. ie: it is true you exist, contingent on you existing. It is not necessary that you exist.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
How do you know I exist? You can verify that by "talking" with me, if you needed more proof you could even meet me IRL (for example). Do you have any such evidence for god? No.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
"How do you know I exist?"
I don't know it is true, I believe it is true and "know it" by assuming whoever sent me that message has not died since they sent it, nevermind that I also assume I am not hallucinating it, or that I wasn't just created 1 second ago with programmed memories of myself existing beforehand. I know I exist now is true, and believe I did exist 1 second ago.
We prove something exists by stating 1 truth about it. I have none for you, only beliefs.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
Beliefs based on reasoning and evidence, as opposed to the blind faith that the religious hold towards their gods.
Anon12356 1 year ago
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@Anon12356,
"You can verify that by "talking" with me, if you needed more proof you could even meet me IRL (for example). Do you have any such evidence for god? No."
We agree we need verification. That is a good start. :)
And no, there is no such evidence as that, for any god, correct.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr Now wait just a minute here, Physics IS numbers, mathematics in just about every form is explained and may explain matter, physics, energies, so I'm not sure I understand your explanation of math and numbers being ..mmm unreal? non-physical? is there another phrase you can manage to manufacture for the description...So it seems it is semantics that is the real non physical oxymoron position.....just as everything else is then I suppose.
JstNEarthling 11 months ago
@JstNEarthling,
Numbers are not physical things, they are concepts. Ditto logic or language. These exist outside of physics.
"It is raining out or it is not raining out" is true independent of the fact of whether or not it is raining. Independent of the fact, this truth stands.... because it is a logical truth and is not based on scienctific fact.
It's not numbers are not real, it's that they are real and not material. Metaphysical.
gklr 11 months ago
@Anon12356,
Nonexistence is shown via logical contradictions. A contradiction is expressed as P and not P at the same time. P stands for proposition. The subject of P, cannot exist, in P and not P at the same time. eg: the ball is on fire and is not on fire at the same time. That ball cannot exist. We apply this to claims about gods like allah or the god of the bible and they go POOF.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
Okay, well that was poor phrasing on my part, what I meant to say was I wouldn't believe in such a thing without evidence. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, and there is no such evidence for any god. Not to mention the bible, koran and torah are full to the brim with contrdictions. Thanks for the education on logical contradictions though.
Anon12356 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
I was trying to explain Quines argument and did not see it post so I thought it fell through the cracks at youtube and stopped.
The 30 NHL teams example shows T and T is F, which violates all laws of logic. So how is it overcome?
"There are 30 NHL teams" is not necessary. It is an empirical truth, contingent. 30 > 27 is necessary, not contingent. The two types of truth do not intersect. ie: they cannot be used in the same argument to resolve a truth.
gklr 1 year ago
@Anon12356,
The point in raising the difference between a contingent truth and a necessary one is that facts apply only to empirical truths (percieved objects).
example of a tautologous truth (concieved objects) is "it is raining out or it is not raining out" which is true via logic only. It is true independant of the fact. ie: if it is raining out it is true, if it is not raining out it is true.
The 30 NHL teams is percieved and not concieved.
30>27 is concieved and not percieved.
gklr 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Anon12356,
"Well if its necessarily outside of physics it doesn't exist."
all necessities are immaterial. This is shown by Quine in an example where he used "the 9 planets". I will paraphrase using "30 NHL teams".
In logic, T and T is T, always. Yet....
There are 30 NHL is true
30>27 is necessarily true
therefore
There are more than 27 NHL teams is necessarily true?
False. There was a time when no NHL teams existed and a time when less than 27 NHL teams existed.
gklr 1 year ago
@gklr
And what would this imply?
Anon12356 1 year ago