You people realize that a 'complete open borders policy' + 'getting of all welfare' = 'lowering the average US living conditions to something close to what you have in Africa/South-America'. And it will take quite a while before the economy starts taking advantage of the new freedom, and that's assuming everything goes according to plan.
It -might- be good for the world, but it would be devastating for the US on the short/medium run
Are you actually prepared to make your family go through that ?
We should get rid of free trade until we can afford it. Really we can't afford anything, if you argue we can, look at the fact that most of our budget is tied to entitlements and military operation. So left overs need to be distrubted carefully and we need to borrown money and such. I think that if we actually took care of our budget, insured that our budget was stable, we could then freely trade with countries because when you trade with other nations who are poorer than us, we have more 2 lose
Yeah, open border immigration with a welfare state is a bad idea. The value of all those immigrants labor would not in general come close to our minimum wage, which would force them under the welfare or other government "entitlement" programs. Milton Friedman's approach would be much more efficient and the only case in which we could justify complete open borders for law abiding immigrants.
I can't help but coment twice, "how do you compare workers, to apples?" well dobbs, it's pretty simple: labor and apples both are scarce resources that are subject to supply and demand curves. Before you comment on economics, at least pick up the basics.
okay, arguing about free trade is really about as necessary as arguments for a flat earth. From Smith to Friedman, from computer models to empirical evidence to an even cursory understanding of sociology all point in one direction: free trade is good.
Every day that I show up for work I support someone who does not. Tax dollars are extorted from me (Bi-Monthly Pay Check) in an effort to pay down the interest only on our national debt. On top of that, 15% more of my check is stolen to propogate the ever burdensome Social Security / Medicair Ponzi Scheme. Illegal Immigrants are not wealthy, they are a burden to an allready burdened system. They do not understand Patriotism or Freedom, look at Mexico and realize these people were its stuards
@bigcrabrob You're right about the burden of the ultimate transitional gains trap: social security. But illegal immigrants are NOT a burden to the "system". They are net taxpayers. That means illegal immigrants are the best deal for Uncle Sam when it comes to helping pay of the nation's debt! And contrary to some believes, they can't collect welfare: they're illegal! So remind me again, how does someone who risks his/her life for the chance to be a net taxpayer not understand freedom?
@thecountmontecristo I didnt say that some illegals dont pay taxes, I said look to the stuards of Mexican Government (Illegal Immagrants) to see their understanding of freedom and liberty, of standing against tyranical, corrupt government. The record there is not so good, if you argue with that clear and simple fact then I have no more time to honestly openly converse/debate with you. It is time to act like American's here in America, regardles of skin color or language.
@thecountmontecristo I dont have to time to go in to more detail at this minute, doing butt loads of paperwork, will get back to you as soon as I can with more. Thanks for responding by the way and being civil, I enjoy hearing others ideas and beliefs.
Wow Lou Dobbs is not politically correct, and he is not interested in what un-educated and mis-educated "Jackasses" hypothesize as "good for America". If you are not here legally, then your a criminal.... it's really that simple. Mexican's surrendered there gun's and right's to tyranicall autocracts who now kneel before drug lords and organized criminal's who terrorize there people. Illegal's are just the kind of freedom loving citizen's America need's right?
In 1848 the US Federal State stole ALL of present-day California, Nevada, Utah and MASSIVE amounts of present day Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming.
@qwertypoiu4321 lol ya land which spain stole from the indian nations in north america where are you going with this buddy aztecs did the same shit to a lesser extent before the spanish arrived just humans man expansion is a part of it
@Azicpok1 The Citizens of Mexico recieved independence in 1820 from Spain, and it became its own country. The US INVADED the Rio Grande and then proceeded to steal 50% of Mexico.
We can stop this illegal invaison . If citizens like you, who are concern about the influx of illegals, become vigilant , report illegal aliens in you communities. Not here to ruin lives, However I believe in controlling the influx of illegal aliens through our borders, into our cities & towns . Report Illegals,
@Jitters10 your professor is an IDIOT!!!!! Maybe we should import 1,000,000 economists from around the world to the United States and give them jobs in our Universities and Financial institutions. So they will replace the current economic professors and economists and at Financial institutions. How about that ha?
@Jitters10 is that your best argument. what's your major? I hope in whatever field of study that you are in, we will import as many people from around the world to takover jobs in your field that way we will drive down your salary, more supply less demand. Your professor has a Pimpin Hoe degree (Phd). It seems like you like the pimp.
@85gevork Economics ;) And his "pimpin' hoe" degree is from George Mason University--in Washington, DC which has the most Nobel Prize laureates for economics in the Washington, DC area...hmmm
Ben Powell, PhD economics, later joked during a lecture on the economics of immigration that he was flattered to be called those names by one of the worst economic reporters around!
If you'd like to hear his lecture, which is about an hour long, on why he supports open borders along with the other social issues around it and how other countries fare with their border policy, email me and I'll send it to you via the foundation for economic education.
He's just unable to hold his own in open debate....he ruins it for true patriots by being racist about something that has NOTHING to do with race.....and in doing so, he completely discredits those who want to see our country in a better standing in the world. We're the only country with such open boarders, and I agree that this is a problem that needs a solution, but the way Dobbs argues just ruins it for both sides of the argument by being a bigot.
part of me likes some little part of Dobbs, but....there's just something about the guy, after hearing some really shady racist comments from him....i dunno, he seems to get it internally, but is unable to truly get the message of liberty and freedom by the constitution across without being a jackass himself....i was happy when he reported on the NAU plans but...he kind of ruined it because he discredited the research by being a total jack ass about it.
Life, Liberty & Property are the only things that need to be upheld in any society. I have the right to invite onto my property anyone I decide. That infringes no one's Liberty. The "Law" is irrelevent to Life, Liberty and Property.
Immigration just means "Movement".
If a persons movement does not infringe on anyones Life, Liberty or Property, they have a right to do that.
These people are jackassiess. They are talking out there ass, with this idea. I don't thank he has any education or was asleep in the back of the class. THese guys are living in some dream world but not in the real world. By the way Wall Street isn't the real main streets in america. The stock marlet news to be closed down and no more free market if this is the thinking coming out of that place. They are just saling greed all over again, thats all. That is what missed up our nation.
Immigration is a tax on the working poor and the middle class. We need an immigration moratorium.
We need to end anchor babies and chain migration.
We need to make e Verify mandatory and jail employers that hire illegals and use loopholes to bring in immigrants on fraudulent worker visas and pocket the profits and pass the social costs onto the community.
And most importantly, stop re electing the same traitors to our country trying to shove amnesty up our as**es again. Join Numbersusa now!
I agree that the person entering let's say the US would be better off than staying in his povertyridden country. However, the reason why third world countries are so poor today and why people flee is for a great part because of population explosion.
The formula remains true: more workers, worse working condition... and less workers, better working conditions.
Subsistence farming doesn't result in population growth. It's the lowering CHILD MORTALITY that results in population growth.
it is always about slavery and how much you gotta pay em'. dobbs wants the truth about stuff. that is the marble that knocks around. lou and the rest of us are just being mislead and lied to.
Dobbs is trying to simplify economics and if one listens to him you can hear him even contradict himself. If it were as simple as he is making it there would be no need for the argument of immigration or no immigration. Lou is a good guy but he has lost it.
Free Markets are NEVER free. Nothing is free. In a "FREE" Market there are winners and Losers. FREE FOR ALL doesn't exist and never did. Protectionist Markets also never win, why? Protecting your failed businesses never leads to a productive society. You need a Balance..You need to be open, but secured to survive, what is very difficult in our society. Not one society/nation has survived on FREE MARKETS and Wide open Borders (Rome) nor Protectionism (USSR).
OPEN BORDERS=WILD WEST TERRITORY= destruction of a nation. Borders need to be open but secured. We need to know who gets in and out. If we don't do that but just keep it WIDE OPEN, we become a wild west territory.
This is what Naomi Klein calls "Chicago School Economics" and disaster capitalism. Read her book "The Shock Doctrine" and find out what will happen to the US by looking at what happened in Chile, Argentina and Indonesia just to name three.
Why don't they improve their own shitty country's instead of coming here and fucking up ours. We waste so much of our resources and time on these greenhorns half of them dont speak English and are nothing more then criminal scum that rubs off on our children. I have no problem with people coming over here as long as they speak English, work hard, and go through the process of coming here legally.
Its been a while, so youll have to refresh my memory asto what I said over a month ago (if you're replying to me). To answer your quesiton, yes. States flooding other states with labor could be an issue, and it probably has. But, hopefully itll never come up due to things like minimum wage, and fair market practices. But ask yourself whether youd rather flood markets with workers in America? Or should we add 100 million MORE to the mix. The former is much more acceptible. If its to happen.
The issue with FIAT anything, and it is an issue, is that printing money and making it available in the first place (w/o boundaries) is that anyone can get it. W/O getting into specifics, which i dont have time for, the derivatives were partially allowed because of the so called fractional reserve banking. That is banks were allowed to create money from money. This is part of the whole reserve banking system, including the FED.
Nobody forces them to come here, that isnt the point. Anyone who needs to work to survive will come here. Thats why they leave their countries. Force isnt necessary. Its just convenient for you to say this because it serves your purpose. This isnt my argument. My argument has and always will be that they WONT be better off here making unlivable wages. Flooding this country w/ cheap labor is the way "free marketeers" want to us to compete w/ china.
Its still amazing to me that people still choose to see what they want to see. I see so many people rant against FIAT currencies because of the destruction caused by too much money, but revel at the notion of flooding this country with unskilled labor. It is true, in this day and age, that money is more valuable than people. We have to be responsible with money, but not with people. This is one of the true hypocrasies of our culture.
When the labor pool is very high, competing capitalists dont have to offer higher wages to secure more unskilled labor. They can offer whatever they want to those people knowing perfectly well they can always replace them if needed. These are the some of the same benefits that slave traders reaped 100 years ago.
We did just fine when there was a much smaller population of illegals. Yes the cost of living still rises, but people are still buying cigarettes (not a necessity) despite the very high price. Thus people will still buy the necessities of life (food, clothing etc), even if priced higher, meaning the same amount of goods will still be made, and the same amount of people will be employed: AMERICAN EMPLOYED. I would rather buy a tomato costing $3, knowing an American picked it.
As usual Lou Dobbs is right on the mark. HE is a Harvard-educated economist and knows exactly what he's talking about. These other JACKASSES haven't got a clue. Unemployment in the USA is close to double digits. America's poor deserve the jobs more than any illegal, or any other foreigner coming here to find work. AMERICAN JOBS FOR AMERICANS ONLY!
Because it's an extremely important issue and a huge threat to our sovereignty and identity as a country. And it isn't the only thing LD talks about. If you watched regularly, you'd see that.
Yeah..history will judge the leaders no doubt. That is..if the world hasnt been destroyed due to pollution or over population. In any event if were still alive and kicking, well have to simply create a new prosperity. Even if we arent "leading" the rest of the world.
Also, demand for unskilled labor is always there, and for many reasons. In some cases its there for production cost, and in other cases labor costs, but in both cases its there to benefit the employer and not the employee. The employee has no wage leverage here and cant choose to make more, unless given all the opportunities. Yes they come here to work, but thats just incidental. The employer still uses this fact, illegal or not, to use their cheap labor for his/her benefit.
I agree. We both have a difference of opinion asto what will "work". There is plenty of demand, yes, but that doesnt mean he or she will live a better life. We also disagree on "better life". Leverage for my argument is leverage for a better wage, which means a better life. Something that someone can live off of so they can enjoy a decent life, like many of us do (w/ a roof over their heads). Switching from employer to employer isnt leverage his or her wage.
"even though they feel they are". You assume this is true. YOU. They come to America for opportunity, which is what anyone will do. You seem to think they are only good for cheap labor. Whos insulting whos intelligence??
TY for speaking the truth. I reject the notion that people are better off living in poverty in America, even if you dont. Id rather they be able to enjoy better lives using their own markets in their own countries.
You also seem to not understand the notion of flooring prices. Prices can never go infinitely low, so that everyone, no matter what the wage, will be able to afford them. At some point the production wont be profitable, so it will cease, bringing supply down and price up. Hence in order for people to be able to afford things, they have to make enough money to buy it. An immigrant making 1.50 an hour will often always be priced out of the market. Thats fair?
Having their employer threaten them is a result of the kind of leverage that can be used, not that its the only leverage. And yes you do have weak arguments, sry. My opinion, i know :).
I never said the immigrants an idiot, thats just a lie. They dont come to our country for the hell of it, another lie, they come here to work. I never said demand will be less due to less wages, i said that their quality of life wont be much better at lower wages, as they wont be able to afford the necessities to survive. Marginal consumption? Of what. Low incomes yes, at 5-10 bucks an hr, not 1 -3 bucks an hr, theres a big diff. OK that jab was for someone else...my bad :)
I never said anything about an equal cut. But yes you are right. Hence the need to control the amount of unskilled labor coming into the country. Add to that overpopulation issues due to mass immigration.
History, at best, is clear, but smudged. The cottin gin is one example, but hardly the proof that technology increases demand for labor. Only in the case that human intervention is needed for that labor. This isnt true w/ robotics. Wages falling allows more jobs, yes, but everyone who make those wages are effected because the standard of living will go down for them. I never said prices dont reflect supply and demand dumbass. Learn to interpret.
Granted IM NOT saying everyone should get an equal cut, otherwise, unskilled labor will be in high demand, rather that we at least regulate the borders to keep labor demand as low as we can. Workers only have leverage if they have choices. You're flat out assuming work will be abundant enough to go around. With a huge influx of population (too large), pay will be driven down, and jobs will become scarce as tech gets more efficient (robot workers). The notion of infinite jobs is a myth.
False. As long as both parties have leverage both parties will win. If you are starving for food, you don't agree to work, you do so to survive. If an immigrant comes to this country to work, then they have no leverage. The job they do is whatever is available to them. They cant start their own business, or buy guns to hunt, or clothes. Hence they are subject to the whims of others, regardless of the job and what it entails. Thats not equal leverage.
First, I dont admit theyd be better off in america, thats just a lie. They have a better chance of livinng maybe a few more years, and 30-40 more for the lucky ones, but youd be hard pressed to say theyd h ave alife. People are always compensated more than they "produce", because "produce" is a relative term coined by business owners.
Their incomes wouldn't drop, theyd be what they were based on skill level. Theyd consume less because of their income. I never said it would be bad for the economy, I said it would be bad for them.
If immigrants gathered food out of the wilderness, wed soon have no animals left, and the ecosystem would be unbalanced. At a 1.50 an hr, how do you expect an immigrant to live? Where do they live? All the land is owned, so theyd live on the streets and the surrounding woods. Better life? To you maybe. You're also falsely assuming infinite resources, which we dont have. Land is one of em.There are more resources for those that can afford them. NOT EVERYONE. Silly.
In capitalism, both parties will never win, unless both parties have counter leverage. If only one of the parties has leverage you can have no fairness in trade. Is it fair that someone immigrates to another country to get a better life, only to be worked as a slave for a slave wage, and live a short life because they cant access healthcare? That doesnt say much for "living a better life". Sure life is better compared to living w/ nothing, but its traded for a miserable life in America.
also understand that I dont want the borders shut, ,rather I do not want opened completely and w/o regards to the consequences. Doctors in America would be a good thing, I agree.
You think the immigrant is better off making 1.50/hr with no way to afford HC, or even a house for his or her family, and die young, not living the same standard as the upper classes? Id rather their countries allow for them to be prosperous their than for us not to allow them prosperity here. Overpopulationn is a problem regardless of the number of people producing. Its a taxation on land, resources, and directly effects everyone.
They come to work, regardless of what the pay is. They come to get the opportunity to work. Living standards doesnt factor into it. More plentiful goods, raises the living standards of those who can afford it. Cheaper cars help the average american, not the wage slave. IT doesnt lead to less employment, as you have mischaracterized what im saying. You seem to believe that everyone will have higher standards of living, but fail to see the problems due to overpopulation (From mass immigr).
The trend? Evidence? More specifically give me evidence with double or even triple our population. You cant. Less cheap labor? Your confused. Mass immigration (unskilled) will BE cheap labor (try 1.50 and hour down to pennies on the dollar). Higher living standards (universal) are due to class not cheap goods. Payment has to be high enough for people to afford higher standards. Something that won't happen. Yes, raise livingn standards for you, but certainly not for them.
If you bring more workers on the market, the workers become less scarce which means their 'worth'/wages go down. This is why countries with a population explosion have a lot of poverty.
If workers become more scarce wages go up and working conditions improve. You can test this with historic development.
When wages drop, they also can't afford expensive stuff. Your logic isn't sound. You seem to be saying that wage drops go hand in hand with pricedrops and therefor the poor don't gain or lose anything. This is not true. The produced stuff is simply bought by wealthier people. All you get is an increased difference between rich and poor.
Immigration is class warfare. But I don't expect you to care about the general good like most people.
Evidence? What evidence suggests that people WILL have less children. Ideological nonsense. People will move to America to get higher standards of living if they are paid well. That will never happen in a truly free market. Especially if the labor is cheap. We'll get dumped millions of other countries populace, as job "growth" occurs because some job is better than no job to many people. Our population wont need to come from births, because well get it from mass immigration.
While I dont agree w/ Dobbs tact here, I tend to agree that a completely open border policy would be a bad one. The free marketeers are correct in the assumption that it would solve our border issues, but only (if they dont say it outright) at the expense of our population. Overpopulation would be the next debate if this were to take place. How would the free market solve this? Where would people go if the US were their only REAL chance at a life? Would they go anywhere or stay put?
You think some guy working in a high-paying high-tech job is gonna be affected by illegal aliens doing manual labor at less-than-min-wage jobs? Come on. And why are the anti-immigration forces propping up low-wage jobs? Sure, they're great for people who are just getting in the job market, but if you're 30 or older and are trying to make a living, you need MORE!
It's sad that we still have people like him in our country who either have something against those coming here to work who JUST HAPPEN to cross the border or exalt industrial jobs above all else. God, paleocons are fucking idiots. Buchanan is a perfect example of this, with the exception of foreign policy. Buchanan's hatred of non-Europeans and immigrants is really unhinged. I mean, have you read his books on immigration?
The guy makes unsubstantiated claims and exalts white Americans.
Dobbs once did a whole segment on H1-B visas and how they "hurt" American workers. He even uses the phony, ridiciulous claim that "there is no labor shortage" in fields like engineering, when clearly there is.
I also can't stand those idiots who try to support this kind of viewpoint on immigration by saying that illegal aliens cause wages to drop somewhere around 6% or 10%. I mean, sure, MAYBE in low-skill, low-wage areas. But middle and upper class workers? Hardly affected!
Lou Dobbs is the only jackass I see here. I'll listen to the experts, Lou. Why the hell would I listen to a moron who always gets his facts wrong and blames illegal aliens for everything? I mean, that's just about all he does on his show! He has no evidence or faulty evidence to back up his claims that we need this extremely strict immigration policy.
Hey, Lou, how about reading a book or a journal article on the topic? Instead of blowing hot air out your ass.
The manufacturing workers can't get special treatment and be shielded from reality forever. Government protectionism to keep them in these industrial jobs just lags our economy. Their efforts would be much better in higher-skilled labor. It's the logical next stop. I mean, any idiot who can work with his hands and has half a brain can be a factory worker. But it takes actual intelligence and high-skill training to do an IT job.
I live in Canada and Free trade has definately not helped Canada at all. Hell the Only places helped by free trade is CHina and India and other third world countries. Free trade would work between 1st world nations but cant work between 1st and second and third world nations due to labour laws and other things like this.
Well, here's one benefit to Canada: MUCH lower prices! Doy! That means more money in your pocket. Sure, jobs are gonna be lost, but what is the alternative? Banning outsourcing? Yeah, like that'll do any good. Without any lower-cost places to go, those businesses would shut down! and then they'd lay off ALL their workers from Canada or the US. Besides, the layoffs in a way are good because then the workers can put their skills to better use. after all, this is a postindustrial econ.
The real irony is, that the people who clamour that they have a right to be in America and have a right to come in, come from countries who do not extend the same right to Americans. I cannot go work in Mexico nor in India. This is free trade? The word "Global Economy" in and of itself - is a misnomer.
PammyG68, you are a typical us ignorant... YES you may work in Mexico or in india if you want to. All you have to do, at least in Mexico, is to get a letter of employment from your employer and you shall get your stamp, or simply ask for an FM1 permit in mexico when crossing the border and you will get one. Just as easy as that. OHHH and afterwards, when you have been residing in mexico for 2 to 5 years, you may apply for naturalization... just as easy as that. Dont talk about shit u dont know
Sorry, you are incorrect about that, India has laws on the books against such and although one may work in Mexico they are simply not going to displace their own people to give jobs to foreign people, that is not the issue at hand, the issue is people are being brought over to work for 30-50% less and tied to one employer for 5 years. I have lived all over the world and for many years in Northern Europe, although one may work in some countries jobs go to their own cit. first.
And you are a typical internet loud mouth. Wow, talk about talking about subjects you know nothing about!! I just brought up immigration laws in the countries you mentioned..ALL FALSE. India has a LAW on the books against such. I like ,"Don't talk about shit u don't know." Most countries have figure out that their labor pool IS their economy. You are the one talking out of your ass. You sound like a hubristic millenal who perceives the world as he wants it to be-not as it is.
what a stupid segment. christine romans says the free tradists advocate seeing people as commodities. I would say it is precisely because there is a lack of openness, an attempt to REGULATE, that people (migrants) are seen as goods. You got it the wrong way woman.
iljc82 - actually thats how economist look at it.. people along with their skills are goods and when an economy unbalanced itself, these people will go somewhere else to find work. Just as companies reduce their inventories and their production to balanca themselves to the market, so are people in an open-border state.. Look at Europe and its lifestyle, the idea that you can move according to your needs, in a free unrestricted way it an economic stimulus on itself. Pay atntion in your classes.
It is not a free and unrestricted economy, check out the H-1B laws and criteria and pay rates. Most people who claim free trade and labor would not even be interested in it if all things were equal. And ,I lived for many years in Europe what you are saying is incorrect, you simply cannot move at will. I am for free trade and free labor markets, that is not what we have going on-at all.
Lou Dumbs - what an idiot this guy is. He claims to be Mr Independent but sounds like a right winger. I have never heard im say anything positive and his show is packed with baseless lies.
You must be either an illeagel immigrant who opposes such american values or your truly an idiot. Why do you care what he "claims" to be. What he is saying is the truth about the real issues here. If you have a problem with American democracy, why do you live here?
It is people like you who think they love America but are in fact a burden on the society....just brainwashed duds. You should consider leaving America but the problem is no country would want you.
By the way, learn how to spell illegal. Or in general, learn how to write when spell check is not available :)
Sorry it took me a little while to respond dconjar. I'm glad to see that you're going by science and you see that your American Indian comment was, well, I'm glad you got my point.
There's is much that you and I will agree on, such as no benefits or entitlements for illegal immigrants because that rewards bad behavior.
As far as "healthy immirgation" goes, sorry man, with the current state of the U.S. economy, no kind of immigration is healthy. Just look up California's water crisis.
Imagine if everyone has to grow their own food, make their own house. It is the same on the national level, don't be blinded by your nationalism to make that connection. The idea of free trade and comparative advantage are what has built the first world. Yes some will lose jobs in the process(carriage makers lost their jobs to the automotive industry, assemblers lost theirs to robots), but on the whole, everyone gains.
Setting aside lame ideology, Mexico's economy is in horrible condition. Yes, free trade is good, but only under perfect market conditions which have almost erroded. Society can benefit from legal immigration and Dobbs was mentioned that: watch his full interview with Paul Waldman. But an influx of millions of illegal immigrants will hurt any economy and can lead to a partide state. You need to take into account the downward pressure on wages. And yes I also agree with Dobbs on the bailout.
I think it's funny how Lou Dobbs almost always talks about Free Trade as a bad thing; it's been proven to benefit both countries who enter a trade agreement.
Really? Where's the proof? Why don't you ask the peasants of Mexico how they feel about NAFTA. Or one of the workers in the US that was displaced because of it. Please explain how free trade with countries who incorporate slave labor is good for the US?
Well, it's good for the U.S. consumer- cheap goods- which increases the purchasing power of Americans. It's good for Mexicans when they open up factories because it gives them jobs, which is more than nothing. Proof: Standard of Living has risen in locations where Mexicans are employed by foreign businesses.
To look at the short run, yes, Americans may lose jobs. However, a successful economy (ask any economist)looks for steady, long term growth. I'm out of characters- I'll be happy to go on.
I'm affraid you're inconsistent with the facts. Mexico's economy is in the gutter. Make no mistake, I respect the theory of your argument, but that is just not what's happening. You're going under the assumption that businesses will pass on the earnings that they get from cheap foreign labor to the consumer. That hasn't been the case. You also need to take into consideration the impact on wages. What you're saying does hold water, but only in perfect market conditions.
There's no doubt that Mexico doesn't have such a great economy, but what I was bringing up was that the standard of living rises, even just a little bit, if people have jobs. Sure, the salary can be extremely low, but some wages are better than no wages. These peope then have money to spend, primarily for food/basic needs, and may eventually go beyond. Sure, it's limited, but if they didn't have jobs, aggregate demand would fall, since they couldn't buy anything.
I appreciate the reply Marx. Remember what I was talking about with perfect market conditions? The whole idea is for an economy to thrive in the free market sense. Right now Mexico is on the verge of collapse due to economic conditions and government corruption. Mexico has become too dependent on unilateral tranfers from the U.S. The wages that I was refering to are the ones here in the U.S. A study done at Harvard shows $300 billion dollars in depressed wages. Aggregate demand goes down.
Gotcha gotcha- now I think I see what you were getting at. In the long run, it should theoretically be better, since there will be a greater abundance of goods for a cheaper price, but right now it's pretty bad.
And I always like getting into discussion on YouTube- it's good!
Sorry I wasn't clear about wages. Remeber, what Mexico needs to do is improve their infrastructure (i.e. get rid of the corruption, quite being dependent on unilateral transfers as a source of revenue, and take out those drug cartels) then the free market approach will help with Mexico's economy greatly. If Mexico's economy thrives, then it's people will have jobs and the U.S. won't have an illegal immigration problem. I appreciate you opinning: it's been good!
Actually it largely depends on the actual trade agreement that is drafted. The NAFTA for example, helps corporate america and leaves it's people with all the bad that's left over.
Lou, If you happen to come across this I would just like to tell ya to keep up the good work, if only these politicians could be knocked on their ass a little while and have to really compete at a blue collar level like I do everyday, they would all fully understand the terminology of no amnesty. Their all bought out! Nothing but liers! PEOPLE WAKE UP, both sides are catering to future votes, WAKE UP. For true change seek a thrid constitiunalist party like Chuck Baldwin that ran this year 2008!
you tamilmman you fucking idiot you fucking cunt stupid bitch ass stupid piece of shit. Lou Dobbs is the biggest enemy of legal immigration (H1B)you fuckin idiot.
Lou is not against immigration, he is against Business owners saying there is a shortage of technical workers so that they may bring in people on H-1B Visas to work for 30-50% less than the going rate. The economy of a nation is its labor force, we cannot have a solvent American economy and then a world economy if Americans do not work.
Fire all the employed economists and give their jobs to the unemployed economists.
These jackass economists will be given jobs picking up garbage along the side of the highways. In their new jobs they will learn what it feels like to do something that is useful to society.
Lou is right for many more reasons than he knows. This economic model can not continue to function.
eg.The GDP needs redifining. The GDP is merely a gross tally of the products and services bought and sold, with no distinctions between transactions that add to well being, and those that deminish it.
Then there is the problem with the "externalities". It says that the oceans and the atmosphere are external to the economy and there fore don't matter.
I would also like to know what "agenda" economists have to push. What interest group are they being funded by, the government? What do they have to gain from different immigration policies?
These lobbyists and corporations have their fingers in everything, what is pathetic is that the people who guide this country are so easily manipulated and weak that they give into to bribery and misguide the American people to put some extra money in their pockets, but this is America, can we really expect any more from these people, nope.
I never said you were dumb until you kept insisting on proving it time and time again and your telling someone to go kill themselves because of a difference of opinion is just another example. I guess those are just the things you do when you are a hard core internet bad ass like yourself. Once again, please, go buy a dictionary or a book about basic English grammar and sentence formation and read it (or have it read to you) before you write anything else. Reading your posts is painful.
I don't want to butt in and try to be an ass, but I think the correct grammar would be "reading your posts (are) painful" not (is)...just clarifying. And by the way, you're right, that guy was a moron.
Yes, after reading it again i think you are right. Sorry about that. I'm not sure if you saw one of the first post he made but it said "the rich get richer til the poor get educated".
That was stupid but that didn't make me angry, his whole argument was that if we get our jobs taken away by immigrants than they are somehow more qualified or better than us, but that isn't the reason at all, and if he were smart he would know that.
Wow, Dobbs is an idiot. He thinks some imaginary/arbitrary line is a good way to decide if someone should be able to work voluntarily if they want to. Person A lives in the US, person B lives 5 ft over the border. Only person A should be able to get a job. Sweet logic Dobbs. Way to think of the rest of the worlds citizens as second class.
Do you not know the reason for his anti-illegal immigration position? Are you one of those people who thinks they are great because you want to give hand outs to law breakers and corrupt politicians and greedy companies that support them?
Obviously the average imbecile that knows nothing about the corrupt governments reasons for doing so or the greedy corporations that support the open boarders policy because it puts more money in their pockets wouldnt have the slightest clue as to why it's a problem, our politicians and big corporations are not humanitarians, this isnt us opening our boarders to the poor immigrant, this is, fuck the American people because we make more money this way instead of that way.
These rich corporate bastards just want to lower the wages on their employees to give themselves more money, that's why they like illegal immigration, it saves them money, that's it, has nothing to do with equality or trying to be nice or do anything for anybody in this country, it's greed.
Americans wont work the fields? Just because you wont doesnt mean that those kids that are off from school wont! A few hundred of us kids every summer walked beans, detasseled corn and picked rocks for some great money. 1978 the government screemed child labor law we lost our jobs and they hired immigrants for 3 an hr! Ask an American kid if they would work the fields for some cash the answer might surprise some of you. Its not that they wont they cant. As an adult if it paid they still would!
well lou i have to disagree with you, you are the idiot
nbonasoro 2 weeks ago
Unlimited immigration? No thanks; I don't want to live in Brazil.
scottvska 4 months ago
You people realize that a 'complete open borders policy' + 'getting of all welfare' = 'lowering the average US living conditions to something close to what you have in Africa/South-America'. And it will take quite a while before the economy starts taking advantage of the new freedom, and that's assuming everything goes according to plan.
It -might- be good for the world, but it would be devastating for the US on the short/medium run
Are you actually prepared to make your family go through that ?
seppsters 7 months ago
We should get rid of free trade until we can afford it. Really we can't afford anything, if you argue we can, look at the fact that most of our budget is tied to entitlements and military operation. So left overs need to be distrubted carefully and we need to borrown money and such. I think that if we actually took care of our budget, insured that our budget was stable, we could then freely trade with countries because when you trade with other nations who are poorer than us, we have more 2 lose
weedisoxygen 8 months ago
Yeah, open border immigration with a welfare state is a bad idea. The value of all those immigrants labor would not in general come close to our minimum wage, which would force them under the welfare or other government "entitlement" programs. Milton Friedman's approach would be much more efficient and the only case in which we could justify complete open borders for law abiding immigrants.
groam6666 10 months ago
oh yeah! also have a coke and smile :)
bige1481 10 months ago
quit crying you bunch of girls! just take your ass fucking like a man!
bige1481 10 months ago
I can't help but coment twice, "how do you compare workers, to apples?" well dobbs, it's pretty simple: labor and apples both are scarce resources that are subject to supply and demand curves. Before you comment on economics, at least pick up the basics.
ThePythagoran 11 months ago
okay, arguing about free trade is really about as necessary as arguments for a flat earth. From Smith to Friedman, from computer models to empirical evidence to an even cursory understanding of sociology all point in one direction: free trade is good.
ThePythagoran 11 months ago
Every day that I show up for work I support someone who does not. Tax dollars are extorted from me (Bi-Monthly Pay Check) in an effort to pay down the interest only on our national debt. On top of that, 15% more of my check is stolen to propogate the ever burdensome Social Security / Medicair Ponzi Scheme. Illegal Immigrants are not wealthy, they are a burden to an allready burdened system. They do not understand Patriotism or Freedom, look at Mexico and realize these people were its stuards
bigcrabrob 1 year ago
@bigcrabrob You're right about the burden of the ultimate transitional gains trap: social security. But illegal immigrants are NOT a burden to the "system". They are net taxpayers. That means illegal immigrants are the best deal for Uncle Sam when it comes to helping pay of the nation's debt! And contrary to some believes, they can't collect welfare: they're illegal! So remind me again, how does someone who risks his/her life for the chance to be a net taxpayer not understand freedom?
thecountmontecristo 10 months ago
@thecountmontecristo I didnt say that some illegals dont pay taxes, I said look to the stuards of Mexican Government (Illegal Immagrants) to see their understanding of freedom and liberty, of standing against tyranical, corrupt government. The record there is not so good, if you argue with that clear and simple fact then I have no more time to honestly openly converse/debate with you. It is time to act like American's here in America, regardles of skin color or language.
bigcrabrob 10 months ago
@thecountmontecristo I dont have to time to go in to more detail at this minute, doing butt loads of paperwork, will get back to you as soon as I can with more. Thanks for responding by the way and being civil, I enjoy hearing others ideas and beliefs.
bigcrabrob 10 months ago
Wow Lou Dobbs is not politically correct, and he is not interested in what un-educated and mis-educated "Jackasses" hypothesize as "good for America". If you are not here legally, then your a criminal.... it's really that simple. Mexican's surrendered there gun's and right's to tyranicall autocracts who now kneel before drug lords and organized criminal's who terrorize there people. Illegal's are just the kind of freedom loving citizen's America need's right?
bigcrabrob 1 year ago
Wow Lou Dobbs is a freaking retard.
condraj2 1 year ago
In 1848 the US Federal State stole ALL of present-day California, Nevada, Utah and MASSIVE amounts of present day Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
@qwertypoiu4321 lol ya land which spain stole from the indian nations in north america where are you going with this buddy aztecs did the same shit to a lesser extent before the spanish arrived just humans man expansion is a part of it
Azicpok1 1 year ago
@Azicpok1 The Citizens of Mexico recieved independence in 1820 from Spain, and it became its own country. The US INVADED the Rio Grande and then proceeded to steal 50% of Mexico.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
The day that America would have open immigration, pigs will fly.
Leo90 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We can stop this illegal invaison . If citizens like you, who are concern about the influx of illegals, become vigilant , report illegal aliens in you communities. Not here to ruin lives, However I believe in controlling the influx of illegal aliens through our borders, into our cities & towns . Report Illegals,
1-866-347-2423
(toll free): 1-866-DHS-2-ICE
onstageagain 1 year ago
CNN is shit, thumbs up
wanyxspe123 1 year ago
Hahahah I just lost all respect for Lou Dobbs. You don't even try to justify your empty arguments. THUMBS DOWN LOU!
publicanimal 1 year ago
LOU DRUGS!
gadslca 1 year ago
LOU DRUGS!
gadslca 1 year ago
@AlessioDAlessandro
Globalization is Treason.
Ridd333 1 year ago
@Ridd333 the professor he calls and idiot is my professor :/
Jitters10 1 year ago
@Jitters10 Ah so you went to GMU? I recall seeing my professor, Don Boudreaux, handed Lou Dobbs his ass in a debate on Stossel
GoingGoingGalt 1 year ago
@Jitters10 your professor is an IDIOT!!!!! Maybe we should import 1,000,000 economists from around the world to the United States and give them jobs in our Universities and Financial institutions. So they will replace the current economic professors and economists and at Financial institutions. How about that ha?
85gevork 1 year ago
@85gevork for your sake, it seems more necessary to import English teachers...
Jitters10 1 year ago
@Jitters10 is that your best argument. what's your major? I hope in whatever field of study that you are in, we will import as many people from around the world to takover jobs in your field that way we will drive down your salary, more supply less demand. Your professor has a Pimpin Hoe degree (Phd). It seems like you like the pimp.
85gevork 1 year ago
@85gevork Economics ;) And his "pimpin' hoe" degree is from George Mason University--in Washington, DC which has the most Nobel Prize laureates for economics in the Washington, DC area...hmmm
Jitters10 1 year ago
@Jitters10 and just out of curiosity, where are you from?
Jitters10 1 year ago
Ben Powell, PhD economics, later joked during a lecture on the economics of immigration that he was flattered to be called those names by one of the worst economic reporters around!
If you'd like to hear his lecture, which is about an hour long, on why he supports open borders along with the other social issues around it and how other countries fare with their border policy, email me and I'll send it to you via the foundation for economic education.
Americaisgreat123 1 year ago
@Americaisgreat123 Attended his FEE lecture on the topic... it was brilliant!
espygj8 1 year ago
He's just unable to hold his own in open debate....he ruins it for true patriots by being racist about something that has NOTHING to do with race.....and in doing so, he completely discredits those who want to see our country in a better standing in the world. We're the only country with such open boarders, and I agree that this is a problem that needs a solution, but the way Dobbs argues just ruins it for both sides of the argument by being a bigot.
Poonard 1 year ago
part of me likes some little part of Dobbs, but....there's just something about the guy, after hearing some really shady racist comments from him....i dunno, he seems to get it internally, but is unable to truly get the message of liberty and freedom by the constitution across without being a jackass himself....i was happy when he reported on the NAU plans but...he kind of ruined it because he discredited the research by being a total jack ass about it.
Poonard 1 year ago
This CHARLATAN " LOW " Dobbs is a promoter of HATE in AMERICA against Immigrants. Ironically, her family is Mexican: wife and 2 daugthers.
But the HATE PAYS in USA, AMERICA, , then, it's a very good BUSINESS for Him.
AGAPITOMELORROSAS 1 year ago
These fuckin people are really livin in a dream world
vette72green 1 year ago
god i hate lou dobbs...
CommSense 1 year ago
It would sure be nice if he would let her finish a sentence. Geez Lou.
nasaguy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Life, Liberty & Property are the only things that need to be upheld in any society. I have the right to invite onto my property anyone I decide. That infringes no one's Liberty. The "Law" is irrelevent to Life, Liberty and Property.
Immigration just means "Movement".
If a persons movement does not infringe on anyones Life, Liberty or Property, they have a right to do that.
randyguitarman13 2 years ago
These people are jackassiess. They are talking out there ass, with this idea. I don't thank he has any education or was asleep in the back of the class. THese guys are living in some dream world but not in the real world. By the way Wall Street isn't the real main streets in america. The stock marlet news to be closed down and no more free market if this is the thinking coming out of that place. They are just saling greed all over again, thats all. That is what missed up our nation.
dduffey60 2 years ago
I agree. Lou Dobbs is really stupid.
mcduffiesteven 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Immigration is a tax on the working poor and the middle class. We need an immigration moratorium.
We need to end anchor babies and chain migration.
We need to make e Verify mandatory and jail employers that hire illegals and use loopholes to bring in immigrants on fraudulent worker visas and pocket the profits and pass the social costs onto the community.
And most importantly, stop re electing the same traitors to our country trying to shove amnesty up our as**es again. Join Numbersusa now!
rocketsredglare101 2 years ago
Economists are just as bad as people who try to predict the weather. They're always wrong.
V8MeatHead 2 years ago
I agree that the person entering let's say the US would be better off than staying in his povertyridden country. However, the reason why third world countries are so poor today and why people flee is for a great part because of population explosion.
The formula remains true: more workers, worse working condition... and less workers, better working conditions.
Subsistence farming doesn't result in population growth. It's the lowering CHILD MORTALITY that results in population growth.
93rardo 2 years ago
Yeah, the millions of unemployed Americans are buying those cheap products now! LOL
softearth 2 years ago
it is always about slavery and how much you gotta pay em'. dobbs wants the truth about stuff. that is the marble that knocks around. lou and the rest of us are just being mislead and lied to.
DINGLEtheBERRY 2 years ago
Dobbs is trying to simplify economics and if one listens to him you can hear him even contradict himself. If it were as simple as he is making it there would be no need for the argument of immigration or no immigration. Lou is a good guy but he has lost it.
billoakesattablthree 2 years ago
Free Markets are NEVER free. Nothing is free. In a "FREE" Market there are winners and Losers. FREE FOR ALL doesn't exist and never did. Protectionist Markets also never win, why? Protecting your failed businesses never leads to a productive society. You need a Balance..You need to be open, but secured to survive, what is very difficult in our society. Not one society/nation has survived on FREE MARKETS and Wide open Borders (Rome) nor Protectionism (USSR).
nickfl1980 2 years ago
OPEN BORDERS=WILD WEST TERRITORY= destruction of a nation. Borders need to be open but secured. We need to know who gets in and out. If we don't do that but just keep it WIDE OPEN, we become a wild west territory.
nickfl1980 2 years ago
This is what Naomi Klein calls "Chicago School Economics" and disaster capitalism. Read her book "The Shock Doctrine" and find out what will happen to the US by looking at what happened in Chile, Argentina and Indonesia just to name three.
BrosaJarlen 2 years ago
Why don't they improve their own shitty country's instead of coming here and fucking up ours. We waste so much of our resources and time on these greenhorns half of them dont speak English and are nothing more then criminal scum that rubs off on our children. I have no problem with people coming over here as long as they speak English, work hard, and go through the process of coming here legally.
animeownage86 2 years ago 2
Im very sure that economist are better at economy then Lou. Sorry Lou Dobbs but you are committing a mistake arguing with experts
jorgenie07 2 years ago
share genius man, you a Phd graduate?
BajanCreation 2 years ago
OH and btw, if state-flooding became a problem youd see states start to regulate their borders. Texas would probably be the first.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Its been a while, so youll have to refresh my memory asto what I said over a month ago (if you're replying to me). To answer your quesiton, yes. States flooding other states with labor could be an issue, and it probably has. But, hopefully itll never come up due to things like minimum wage, and fair market practices. But ask yourself whether youd rather flood markets with workers in America? Or should we add 100 million MORE to the mix. The former is much more acceptible. If its to happen.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
The issue with FIAT anything, and it is an issue, is that printing money and making it available in the first place (w/o boundaries) is that anyone can get it. W/O getting into specifics, which i dont have time for, the derivatives were partially allowed because of the so called fractional reserve banking. That is banks were allowed to create money from money. This is part of the whole reserve banking system, including the FED.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Nobody forces them to come here, that isnt the point. Anyone who needs to work to survive will come here. Thats why they leave their countries. Force isnt necessary. Its just convenient for you to say this because it serves your purpose. This isnt my argument. My argument has and always will be that they WONT be better off here making unlivable wages. Flooding this country w/ cheap labor is the way "free marketeers" want to us to compete w/ china.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Its still amazing to me that people still choose to see what they want to see. I see so many people rant against FIAT currencies because of the destruction caused by too much money, but revel at the notion of flooding this country with unskilled labor. It is true, in this day and age, that money is more valuable than people. We have to be responsible with money, but not with people. This is one of the true hypocrasies of our culture.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
We're still having this conversation o.O? ;P
When the labor pool is very high, competing capitalists dont have to offer higher wages to secure more unskilled labor. They can offer whatever they want to those people knowing perfectly well they can always replace them if needed. These are the some of the same benefits that slave traders reaped 100 years ago.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
We did just fine when there was a much smaller population of illegals. Yes the cost of living still rises, but people are still buying cigarettes (not a necessity) despite the very high price. Thus people will still buy the necessities of life (food, clothing etc), even if priced higher, meaning the same amount of goods will still be made, and the same amount of people will be employed: AMERICAN EMPLOYED. I would rather buy a tomato costing $3, knowing an American picked it.
AnBon74 2 years ago
As usual Lou Dobbs is right on the mark. HE is a Harvard-educated economist and knows exactly what he's talking about. These other JACKASSES haven't got a clue. Unemployment in the USA is close to double digits. America's poor deserve the jobs more than any illegal, or any other foreigner coming here to find work. AMERICAN JOBS FOR AMERICANS ONLY!
AnBon74 2 years ago
These "free market" economists are about as capitalist as Che Guevera.
Pirate1014 2 years ago 2
Why is immigration the only thing Lou Dobbs talks about? I don't get it!
datcity 2 years ago
Because it's an extremely important issue and a huge threat to our sovereignty and identity as a country. And it isn't the only thing LD talks about. If you watched regularly, you'd see that.
AnBon74 2 years ago
Are you one of the programmable liberal socialist bots?
hotrodmarcus63 2 years ago
Time will tell who the "jackasses" were but it will be too late to bring us back to prosperity.
okdokee30233 2 years ago
Yeah..history will judge the leaders no doubt. That is..if the world hasnt been destroyed due to pollution or over population. In any event if were still alive and kicking, well have to simply create a new prosperity. Even if we arent "leading" the rest of the world.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Also, demand for unskilled labor is always there, and for many reasons. In some cases its there for production cost, and in other cases labor costs, but in both cases its there to benefit the employer and not the employee. The employee has no wage leverage here and cant choose to make more, unless given all the opportunities. Yes they come here to work, but thats just incidental. The employer still uses this fact, illegal or not, to use their cheap labor for his/her benefit.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
I agree. We both have a difference of opinion asto what will "work". There is plenty of demand, yes, but that doesnt mean he or she will live a better life. We also disagree on "better life". Leverage for my argument is leverage for a better wage, which means a better life. Something that someone can live off of so they can enjoy a decent life, like many of us do (w/ a roof over their heads). Switching from employer to employer isnt leverage his or her wage.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
"even though they feel they are". You assume this is true. YOU. They come to America for opportunity, which is what anyone will do. You seem to think they are only good for cheap labor. Whos insulting whos intelligence??
vidfreak56 2 years ago
TY for speaking the truth. I reject the notion that people are better off living in poverty in America, even if you dont. Id rather they be able to enjoy better lives using their own markets in their own countries.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
You also seem to not understand the notion of flooring prices. Prices can never go infinitely low, so that everyone, no matter what the wage, will be able to afford them. At some point the production wont be profitable, so it will cease, bringing supply down and price up. Hence in order for people to be able to afford things, they have to make enough money to buy it. An immigrant making 1.50 an hour will often always be priced out of the market. Thats fair?
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Having their employer threaten them is a result of the kind of leverage that can be used, not that its the only leverage. And yes you do have weak arguments, sry. My opinion, i know :).
vidfreak56 2 years ago
I never said the immigrants an idiot, thats just a lie. They dont come to our country for the hell of it, another lie, they come here to work. I never said demand will be less due to less wages, i said that their quality of life wont be much better at lower wages, as they wont be able to afford the necessities to survive. Marginal consumption? Of what. Low incomes yes, at 5-10 bucks an hr, not 1 -3 bucks an hr, theres a big diff. OK that jab was for someone else...my bad :)
vidfreak56 2 years ago
I never said anything about an equal cut. But yes you are right. Hence the need to control the amount of unskilled labor coming into the country. Add to that overpopulation issues due to mass immigration.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Haha how is what im saying anti-intellectualism. A very low jab at someone w/ weak arguments.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Legalizing them doesnt give them leverage. Leverage is only obtained when their skills are in high enough demand so they can make a decent living.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
History, at best, is clear, but smudged. The cottin gin is one example, but hardly the proof that technology increases demand for labor. Only in the case that human intervention is needed for that labor. This isnt true w/ robotics. Wages falling allows more jobs, yes, but everyone who make those wages are effected because the standard of living will go down for them. I never said prices dont reflect supply and demand dumbass. Learn to interpret.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Granted IM NOT saying everyone should get an equal cut, otherwise, unskilled labor will be in high demand, rather that we at least regulate the borders to keep labor demand as low as we can. Workers only have leverage if they have choices. You're flat out assuming work will be abundant enough to go around. With a huge influx of population (too large), pay will be driven down, and jobs will become scarce as tech gets more efficient (robot workers). The notion of infinite jobs is a myth.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
False. As long as both parties have leverage both parties will win. If you are starving for food, you don't agree to work, you do so to survive. If an immigrant comes to this country to work, then they have no leverage. The job they do is whatever is available to them. They cant start their own business, or buy guns to hunt, or clothes. Hence they are subject to the whims of others, regardless of the job and what it entails. Thats not equal leverage.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
First, I dont admit theyd be better off in america, thats just a lie. They have a better chance of livinng maybe a few more years, and 30-40 more for the lucky ones, but youd be hard pressed to say theyd h ave alife. People are always compensated more than they "produce", because "produce" is a relative term coined by business owners.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Their incomes wouldn't drop, theyd be what they were based on skill level. Theyd consume less because of their income. I never said it would be bad for the economy, I said it would be bad for them.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
If immigrants gathered food out of the wilderness, wed soon have no animals left, and the ecosystem would be unbalanced. At a 1.50 an hr, how do you expect an immigrant to live? Where do they live? All the land is owned, so theyd live on the streets and the surrounding woods. Better life? To you maybe. You're also falsely assuming infinite resources, which we dont have. Land is one of em.There are more resources for those that can afford them. NOT EVERYONE. Silly.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
Lou Dobbs had it right about free market economist.
hotrodmarcus63 2 years ago
In capitalism, both parties will never win, unless both parties have counter leverage. If only one of the parties has leverage you can have no fairness in trade. Is it fair that someone immigrates to another country to get a better life, only to be worked as a slave for a slave wage, and live a short life because they cant access healthcare? That doesnt say much for "living a better life". Sure life is better compared to living w/ nothing, but its traded for a miserable life in America.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
also understand that I dont want the borders shut, ,rather I do not want opened completely and w/o regards to the consequences. Doctors in America would be a good thing, I agree.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
You think the immigrant is better off making 1.50/hr with no way to afford HC, or even a house for his or her family, and die young, not living the same standard as the upper classes? Id rather their countries allow for them to be prosperous their than for us not to allow them prosperity here. Overpopulationn is a problem regardless of the number of people producing. Its a taxation on land, resources, and directly effects everyone.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
They come to work, regardless of what the pay is. They come to get the opportunity to work. Living standards doesnt factor into it. More plentiful goods, raises the living standards of those who can afford it. Cheaper cars help the average american, not the wage slave. IT doesnt lead to less employment, as you have mischaracterized what im saying. You seem to believe that everyone will have higher standards of living, but fail to see the problems due to overpopulation (From mass immigr).
vidfreak56 2 years ago
The trend? Evidence? More specifically give me evidence with double or even triple our population. You cant. Less cheap labor? Your confused. Mass immigration (unskilled) will BE cheap labor (try 1.50 and hour down to pennies on the dollar). Higher living standards (universal) are due to class not cheap goods. Payment has to be high enough for people to afford higher standards. Something that won't happen. Yes, raise livingn standards for you, but certainly not for them.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
If you bring more workers on the market, the workers become less scarce which means their 'worth'/wages go down. This is why countries with a population explosion have a lot of poverty.
If workers become more scarce wages go up and working conditions improve. You can test this with historic development.
93rardo 2 years ago
When wages drop, they also can't afford expensive stuff. Your logic isn't sound. You seem to be saying that wage drops go hand in hand with pricedrops and therefor the poor don't gain or lose anything. This is not true. The produced stuff is simply bought by wealthier people. All you get is an increased difference between rich and poor.
Immigration is class warfare. But I don't expect you to care about the general good like most people.
93rardo 2 years ago
Evidence? What evidence suggests that people WILL have less children. Ideological nonsense. People will move to America to get higher standards of living if they are paid well. That will never happen in a truly free market. Especially if the labor is cheap. We'll get dumped millions of other countries populace, as job "growth" occurs because some job is better than no job to many people. Our population wont need to come from births, because well get it from mass immigration.
vidfreak56 2 years ago
While I dont agree w/ Dobbs tact here, I tend to agree that a completely open border policy would be a bad one. The free marketeers are correct in the assumption that it would solve our border issues, but only (if they dont say it outright) at the expense of our population. Overpopulation would be the next debate if this were to take place. How would the free market solve this? Where would people go if the US were their only REAL chance at a life? Would they go anywhere or stay put?
vidfreak56 2 years ago
You think some guy working in a high-paying high-tech job is gonna be affected by illegal aliens doing manual labor at less-than-min-wage jobs? Come on. And why are the anti-immigration forces propping up low-wage jobs? Sure, they're great for people who are just getting in the job market, but if you're 30 or older and are trying to make a living, you need MORE!
whoo689 2 years ago
It's sad that we still have people like him in our country who either have something against those coming here to work who JUST HAPPEN to cross the border or exalt industrial jobs above all else. God, paleocons are fucking idiots. Buchanan is a perfect example of this, with the exception of foreign policy. Buchanan's hatred of non-Europeans and immigrants is really unhinged. I mean, have you read his books on immigration?
The guy makes unsubstantiated claims and exalts white Americans.
whoo689 2 years ago
Dobbs once did a whole segment on H1-B visas and how they "hurt" American workers. He even uses the phony, ridiciulous claim that "there is no labor shortage" in fields like engineering, when clearly there is.
I also can't stand those idiots who try to support this kind of viewpoint on immigration by saying that illegal aliens cause wages to drop somewhere around 6% or 10%. I mean, sure, MAYBE in low-skill, low-wage areas. But middle and upper class workers? Hardly affected!
whoo689 2 years ago
Are you allright with wage drops in low-skill, low-wage areas?
Shame on you.
93rardo 2 years ago
Lou Dobbs is the only jackass I see here. I'll listen to the experts, Lou. Why the hell would I listen to a moron who always gets his facts wrong and blames illegal aliens for everything? I mean, that's just about all he does on his show! He has no evidence or faulty evidence to back up his claims that we need this extremely strict immigration policy.
Hey, Lou, how about reading a book or a journal article on the topic? Instead of blowing hot air out your ass.
whoo689 2 years ago
The manufacturing workers can't get special treatment and be shielded from reality forever. Government protectionism to keep them in these industrial jobs just lags our economy. Their efforts would be much better in higher-skilled labor. It's the logical next stop. I mean, any idiot who can work with his hands and has half a brain can be a factory worker. But it takes actual intelligence and high-skill training to do an IT job.
whoo689 2 years ago
I live in Canada and Free trade has definately not helped Canada at all. Hell the Only places helped by free trade is CHina and India and other third world countries. Free trade would work between 1st world nations but cant work between 1st and second and third world nations due to labour laws and other things like this.
MASTERARTGOD 2 years ago
Well, here's one benefit to Canada: MUCH lower prices! Doy! That means more money in your pocket. Sure, jobs are gonna be lost, but what is the alternative? Banning outsourcing? Yeah, like that'll do any good. Without any lower-cost places to go, those businesses would shut down! and then they'd lay off ALL their workers from Canada or the US. Besides, the layoffs in a way are good because then the workers can put their skills to better use. after all, this is a postindustrial econ.
whoo689 2 years ago
The real irony is, that the people who clamour that they have a right to be in America and have a right to come in, come from countries who do not extend the same right to Americans. I cannot go work in Mexico nor in India. This is free trade? The word "Global Economy" in and of itself - is a misnomer.
PammyG68 2 years ago
PammyG68, you are a typical us ignorant... YES you may work in Mexico or in india if you want to. All you have to do, at least in Mexico, is to get a letter of employment from your employer and you shall get your stamp, or simply ask for an FM1 permit in mexico when crossing the border and you will get one. Just as easy as that. OHHH and afterwards, when you have been residing in mexico for 2 to 5 years, you may apply for naturalization... just as easy as that. Dont talk about shit u dont know
fdosaq 2 years ago
Sorry, you are incorrect about that, India has laws on the books against such and although one may work in Mexico they are simply not going to displace their own people to give jobs to foreign people, that is not the issue at hand, the issue is people are being brought over to work for 30-50% less and tied to one employer for 5 years. I have lived all over the world and for many years in Northern Europe, although one may work in some countries jobs go to their own cit. first.
PammyG68 2 years ago
And you are a typical internet loud mouth. Wow, talk about talking about subjects you know nothing about!! I just brought up immigration laws in the countries you mentioned..ALL FALSE. India has a LAW on the books against such. I like ,"Don't talk about shit u don't know." Most countries have figure out that their labor pool IS their economy. You are the one talking out of your ass. You sound like a hubristic millenal who perceives the world as he wants it to be-not as it is.
PammyG68 2 years ago
Lou Dobbs still has our back!!!!!!!
ExplicitContent81 2 years ago 3
what a stupid segment. christine romans says the free tradists advocate seeing people as commodities. I would say it is precisely because there is a lack of openness, an attempt to REGULATE, that people (migrants) are seen as goods. You got it the wrong way woman.
iljc82 3 years ago
iljc82 - actually thats how economist look at it.. people along with their skills are goods and when an economy unbalanced itself, these people will go somewhere else to find work. Just as companies reduce their inventories and their production to balanca themselves to the market, so are people in an open-border state.. Look at Europe and its lifestyle, the idea that you can move according to your needs, in a free unrestricted way it an economic stimulus on itself. Pay atntion in your classes.
fdosaq 2 years ago
It is not a free and unrestricted economy, check out the H-1B laws and criteria and pay rates. Most people who claim free trade and labor would not even be interested in it if all things were equal. And ,I lived for many years in Europe what you are saying is incorrect, you simply cannot move at will. I am for free trade and free labor markets, that is not what we have going on-at all.
PammyG68 2 years ago
Lou Dumbs - what an idiot this guy is. He claims to be Mr Independent but sounds like a right winger. I have never heard im say anything positive and his show is packed with baseless lies.
nilesdingo 3 years ago
You must be either an illeagel immigrant who opposes such american values or your truly an idiot. Why do you care what he "claims" to be. What he is saying is the truth about the real issues here. If you have a problem with American democracy, why do you live here?
MHayes85 3 years ago
It is people like you who think they love America but are in fact a burden on the society....just brainwashed duds. You should consider leaving America but the problem is no country would want you.
By the way, learn how to spell illegal. Or in general, learn how to write when spell check is not available :)
nilesdingo 3 years ago 2
Your an idiot.
MHayes85 3 years ago
Is too.
WesSeid 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lou dobbs is not smarter than all those econimist
jorgenie07 3 years ago
Sorry it took me a little while to respond dconjar. I'm glad to see that you're going by science and you see that your American Indian comment was, well, I'm glad you got my point.
There's is much that you and I will agree on, such as no benefits or entitlements for illegal immigrants because that rewards bad behavior.
As far as "healthy immirgation" goes, sorry man, with the current state of the U.S. economy, no kind of immigration is healthy. Just look up California's water crisis.
staley1981 3 years ago
Imagine if everyone has to grow their own food, make their own house. It is the same on the national level, don't be blinded by your nationalism to make that connection. The idea of free trade and comparative advantage are what has built the first world. Yes some will lose jobs in the process(carriage makers lost their jobs to the automotive industry, assemblers lost theirs to robots), but on the whole, everyone gains.
hex6ng 3 years ago
Setting aside lame ideology, Mexico's economy is in horrible condition. Yes, free trade is good, but only under perfect market conditions which have almost erroded. Society can benefit from legal immigration and Dobbs was mentioned that: watch his full interview with Paul Waldman. But an influx of millions of illegal immigrants will hurt any economy and can lead to a partide state. You need to take into account the downward pressure on wages. And yes I also agree with Dobbs on the bailout.
staley1981 3 years ago
Fuck Off - Lou fucking kicks ass! You're a dipshit!
CrisMarlowe 3 years ago
I think it's funny how Lou Dobbs almost always talks about Free Trade as a bad thing; it's been proven to benefit both countries who enter a trade agreement.
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
Really? Where's the proof? Why don't you ask the peasants of Mexico how they feel about NAFTA. Or one of the workers in the US that was displaced because of it. Please explain how free trade with countries who incorporate slave labor is good for the US?
CrisMarlowe 3 years ago
Well, it's good for the U.S. consumer- cheap goods- which increases the purchasing power of Americans. It's good for Mexicans when they open up factories because it gives them jobs, which is more than nothing. Proof: Standard of Living has risen in locations where Mexicans are employed by foreign businesses.
To look at the short run, yes, Americans may lose jobs. However, a successful economy (ask any economist)looks for steady, long term growth. I'm out of characters- I'll be happy to go on.
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
If you'd like me to.
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
I'm affraid you're inconsistent with the facts. Mexico's economy is in the gutter. Make no mistake, I respect the theory of your argument, but that is just not what's happening. You're going under the assumption that businesses will pass on the earnings that they get from cheap foreign labor to the consumer. That hasn't been the case. You also need to take into consideration the impact on wages. What you're saying does hold water, but only in perfect market conditions.
staley1981 3 years ago
There's no doubt that Mexico doesn't have such a great economy, but what I was bringing up was that the standard of living rises, even just a little bit, if people have jobs. Sure, the salary can be extremely low, but some wages are better than no wages. These peope then have money to spend, primarily for food/basic needs, and may eventually go beyond. Sure, it's limited, but if they didn't have jobs, aggregate demand would fall, since they couldn't buy anything.
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
I appreciate the reply Marx. Remember what I was talking about with perfect market conditions? The whole idea is for an economy to thrive in the free market sense. Right now Mexico is on the verge of collapse due to economic conditions and government corruption. Mexico has become too dependent on unilateral tranfers from the U.S. The wages that I was refering to are the ones here in the U.S. A study done at Harvard shows $300 billion dollars in depressed wages. Aggregate demand goes down.
staley1981 3 years ago
Gotcha gotcha- now I think I see what you were getting at. In the long run, it should theoretically be better, since there will be a greater abundance of goods for a cheaper price, but right now it's pretty bad.
And I always like getting into discussion on YouTube- it's good!
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
Comment removed
staley1981 3 years ago
Sorry I wasn't clear about wages. Remeber, what Mexico needs to do is improve their infrastructure (i.e. get rid of the corruption, quite being dependent on unilateral transfers as a source of revenue, and take out those drug cartels) then the free market approach will help with Mexico's economy greatly. If Mexico's economy thrives, then it's people will have jobs and the U.S. won't have an illegal immigration problem. I appreciate you opinning: it's been good!
staley1981 3 years ago
I enjoy your comments, however, let me say that it does not matter how cheap the good are if Americans do not have jobs to buy them.
PammyG68 2 years ago
I hope that cleared things up regarding wages here in the U.S. I hate running out of text! I do look forward to more dicussion though.
staley1981 3 years ago
Actually it largely depends on the actual trade agreement that is drafted. The NAFTA for example, helps corporate america and leaves it's people with all the bad that's left over.
Mendetus 3 years ago
Cheap goods are bad, huh?
I guess I'll stop being thrifty and buy American.
MarxPayne337 3 years ago
What's the point of having cheap goods when you can't afford them anyways because you don't have a job.
Mendetus 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
good work lou dobbs.
nolan067 3 years ago
Lou, If you happen to come across this I would just like to tell ya to keep up the good work, if only these politicians could be knocked on their ass a little while and have to really compete at a blue collar level like I do everyday, they would all fully understand the terminology of no amnesty. Their all bought out! Nothing but liers! PEOPLE WAKE UP, both sides are catering to future votes, WAKE UP. For true change seek a thrid constitiunalist party like Chuck Baldwin that ran this year 2008!
spearsdale 3 years ago 2
If you are here illegally you are not an immigrant. You are a criminal.
giovanhagar 3 years ago 3
Lou ..please dont think the whole world is an idiot just becaue you are a racist
rahimatulla 3 years ago
"Lou ..please dont think the whole world is an idiot just becaue you are a racist "
But it is not racist to bring people in to work for 1/2 BECAUSE of their race? And, again, they are being paid HALF as much.
I guess Mexicans are racists, since, Mexico protects its border with Guatemala by machine gun.
PammyG68 2 years ago
you tamilmman you fucking idiot you fucking cunt stupid bitch ass stupid piece of shit. Lou Dobbs is the biggest enemy of legal immigration (H1B)you fuckin idiot.
rahimatulla 3 years ago
Lou is not against immigration, he is against Business owners saying there is a shortage of technical workers so that they may bring in people on H-1B Visas to work for 30-50% less than the going rate. The economy of a nation is its labor force, we cannot have a solvent American economy and then a world economy if Americans do not work.
PammyG68 2 years ago
stupid bunch of cunts, he is against illegal immigration, not immigration itself. these two terms aren't synonymous.
tamilmannan 3 years ago
Fire all the employed economists and give their jobs to the unemployed economists.
These jackass economists will be given jobs picking up garbage along the side of the highways. In their new jobs they will learn what it feels like to do something that is useful to society.
bimmjim 3 years ago
Lou is right for many more reasons than he knows. This economic model can not continue to function.
eg.The GDP needs redifining. The GDP is merely a gross tally of the products and services bought and sold, with no distinctions between transactions that add to well being, and those that deminish it.
Then there is the problem with the "externalities". It says that the oceans and the atmosphere are external to the economy and there fore don't matter.
This model also ignores finiteness.
bimmjim 3 years ago
Lou.. write another book and profit from all the ills of society.. at least the ills as you see them.
ab330 3 years ago
I would also like to know what "agenda" economists have to push. What interest group are they being funded by, the government? What do they have to gain from different immigration policies?
runsweetlew 3 years ago
These lobbyists and corporations have their fingers in everything, what is pathetic is that the people who guide this country are so easily manipulated and weak that they give into to bribery and misguide the American people to put some extra money in their pockets, but this is America, can we really expect any more from these people, nope.
chrissup19 3 years ago
I never said you were dumb until you kept insisting on proving it time and time again and your telling someone to go kill themselves because of a difference of opinion is just another example. I guess those are just the things you do when you are a hard core internet bad ass like yourself. Once again, please, go buy a dictionary or a book about basic English grammar and sentence formation and read it (or have it read to you) before you write anything else. Reading your posts is painful.
ibjames1118 3 years ago
I don't want to butt in and try to be an ass, but I think the correct grammar would be "reading your posts (are) painful" not (is)...just clarifying. And by the way, you're right, that guy was a moron.
chrissup19 3 years ago
Yes, after reading it again i think you are right. Sorry about that. I'm not sure if you saw one of the first post he made but it said "the rich get richer til the poor get educated".
ibjames1118 3 years ago
That was stupid but that didn't make me angry, his whole argument was that if we get our jobs taken away by immigrants than they are somehow more qualified or better than us, but that isn't the reason at all, and if he were smart he would know that.
chrissup19 3 years ago
Wow, Dobbs is an idiot. He thinks some imaginary/arbitrary line is a good way to decide if someone should be able to work voluntarily if they want to. Person A lives in the US, person B lives 5 ft over the border. Only person A should be able to get a job. Sweet logic Dobbs. Way to think of the rest of the worlds citizens as second class.
runsweetlew 3 years ago
Do you not know the reason for his anti-illegal immigration position? Are you one of those people who thinks they are great because you want to give hand outs to law breakers and corrupt politicians and greedy companies that support them?
chrissup19 3 years ago
Obviously the average imbecile that knows nothing about the corrupt governments reasons for doing so or the greedy corporations that support the open boarders policy because it puts more money in their pockets wouldnt have the slightest clue as to why it's a problem, our politicians and big corporations are not humanitarians, this isnt us opening our boarders to the poor immigrant, this is, fuck the American people because we make more money this way instead of that way.
chrissup19 3 years ago
You do not sound smart or tolerant, you sound like a uninformed liberal that doesn't have a clue.
Lou Dobbs is a great man, thanks very much.
chrissup19 3 years ago
These rich corporate bastards just want to lower the wages on their employees to give themselves more money, that's why they like illegal immigration, it saves them money, that's it, has nothing to do with equality or trying to be nice or do anything for anybody in this country, it's greed.
chrissup19 3 years ago
You all repulse me as a true patriot of what is left of my country. Thats' right , MY country. All of you can get out.. now.
Chrysa11 3 years ago
the pussy in his house is illegal too... what i think is this guy was a pussy starvin mother fucker, but finnaly he got an illegal one! lol
ghezaet 3 years ago
lol Lou Dobbs is retarded
TheDayoProject 3 years ago
Yes, blame immigration, not the the inflation that your idiot hillbilly president created by spending 16 gajillion dollars on a lie.
KritikalDimensions 3 years ago
Lou Dobbs is the man...tells it like it is...F the hating free loaders Dobbs!
TNutty 3 years ago
Yeah right!
He's nauseating because he reminds a stupid economist that you can't treat people like merchandise?
If that is being "nauseating" then you're one hell of a puke.
Mtl4us2 3 years ago
Americans wont work the fields? Just because you wont doesnt mean that those kids that are off from school wont! A few hundred of us kids every summer walked beans, detasseled corn and picked rocks for some great money. 1978 the government screemed child labor law we lost our jobs and they hired immigrants for 3 an hr! Ask an American kid if they would work the fields for some cash the answer might surprise some of you. Its not that they wont they cant. As an adult if it paid they still would!
kenyamht 3 years ago
Hey you know what? If some farmer from mexico can take your job, gu