Mercedes Benz: Fuel Cell Bus

[5yuser]

even poor people can ride in a mercedes!

[TheBillyjoe02]

In german?

[Ghetthokillar]

This Bus is from Stuttgart it's in Germany ;-) I live there! sorry for my bad english

[xXZachLemmon95Xx]

BMW should make buses,haha.......

[SMB67T]

@xXZachLemmon95Xx

I am sure that BMW will not make bus, cuz they only knows how to make cars.

[SMB67T]

Nice Bus! I like Citaro the best :)

[rurmundo]

shut up voice in english,i never interesting german evobus mercedes citaro,i hate them,stupid girl in english

[mufasa10811]

do not bring this to america!!!please!

[thebrainyouneed]

that technology is 50 years old. If it has not been implemented is because Texaco, BP, Exon, etc have more financial power than most countries of the UN. It is the oil companies which prevent from that being implemented. If hydrocarbures and benzopyrines, and lead and NO2 cause cancer as they indeed do, governments could not care less. I can't believe you are so naive people. Shake your heads and think from scratch, de-manipulate yourselves.

[DavidPitesti]

correct!

[fgh456pc]

Your right. We need this technology to go mass market NOW!!

[sierracuban]

@thebrainyouneed YOU ARE SO RIGHT ! Here in the United States it's all about the power of the wealthy oil companies.....And here in Florida, our Governor Rick Scott refused to take over ONE BILLION dollars from President Obama for a high speed train system......Had the money been for highways, he would of course had taken it......THE CAR IS STILL KING in The U.S. and that will give us a PAINFUL transition into the next energy generation.....ONE HOPE IS THAT ELECTRIC CARS ARE HERE.

[wilson3a10]

time to say bye to chocking smoke from olympians etc

[tomas2501]

In my opinion hydrogenium is the best for buses.

[AvmanM]

what is hydrogenium?

[chrisconil]

very interesting, we can stop using rapeseed for bio fuel, which is used on the Cuckmere Community Bus, E Sussex, UK

[roadtorinpoche]

It is inaccurate to say the US does not have this technology or that the US gets everything 10 years later than other countries. This technology is in both research and practical application stages in various parts of this country. For example, search National Fuel Cell Research Center.

[flamingfire123456]

america havent yet signed the agrement for lowering imitions.

[Speyde]

Lol im German and im understand all xD

[JOGAFUTEBOL]

ya USA gets everything 10 years later than other countries.

[181jose]

@JOGAFUTEBOL you mean 10 years before every country? Where i live they get evewrything new and good 10 or 15 years later

[kostasthess81]

History For Buses In Greece...

it's good for fans!!!

watch?v=r-kdouNzRnI

[9192237]

we need that in the us

[condorlio07]

Indeed.

[ensignjoe]

Mörsäides BEnz SItarouh.. lern ma englisch

[dicknju]

Good car There are 2 Mercedes Benz Fuel Cell Bus run in Beijing. I'll have try in 3 days!!

[EsotericDesi]

That's hot... European buses are the hottest... especially their latest buses. New York City's replacing all of its old buses with new "Clean Air Hybrid Electric Buses" but they're still not enough as far as I think. We need something 100% emissions free.

[reddog223]

we will but it takes time im guessing we will have the technology by im guessing the year 2025 to do it cheaply for everyone

[carlayling]

HAL You just don't get it... To bad for you.

[HAL11000]

You apparently suffer from cognitive disonance. May you live in interesting times...

[dire67]

HAL, I appreciate that you've done a lot of research on this, but please get my point. I've discovered first hand that it doesn't take a lot of energy to extract hydrogen through hydrolysis. I know you've done a lot of research, and it shouldn't count as naught, but it's outdated information.

[carlayling]

HAL yr talkin out of your ass.. I've gone on road trips in my friends hydrogen car and it takes about 4 and a half minuets to refuel itself... Go back to school!

[dire67]

Actually, HAL strkes me as someone who's been to school. It' just that a lot of the learning comes after school. It'll just take him a while to get there, that's all.

[HAL11000]

And even if you are among those willing to sacrifice freedom and economic rationality for the sake of the environment, and therefore prefer hydrogen for its advertised benefit of reduced carbon dioxide emissions, think again. Because hydrogen is actually made by reforming hydrocarbons, its use as fuel would not reduce greenhouse gas emissions at all. In fact, it would greatly increase them.

[dire67]

continued: Solar and wind power are absolutely adequate for hydrogen production. Not only that, but the exhaust steem from a fuel cell can also be harnessed to produce enough electricity to produce more. It's happened more than once, and it'll happen again. The known laws of physics turned on it's head. Rather, though, than wait until someone proves this possible mathematically, if it work, I'm not arguing.

[dire67]

HAL, I'm curious to know the source of your figures. I'm not knocking them, just curious. I've personally managed to produce hydrogen from plain tap water using 6 volts @ 1.5 amps. Now, I was in phisics, too, but I also realize that if something works in practice that doesn't in math, then I must check the math.The fact is, you simply don't have to rely on fossil fuel.

[carlayling]

You can do this kind of conversion on just about anything, a home heating system, generator, cars, planes, anything... you use the power that th engine itself creates and trough amplification of the voltage the engine supplies the needed energy for conversion.

[HAL11000]

Such a practice conforms to the parameters of perpetual motion, hence conclusive scientific investigation is needed to verify the violation of thermodynamic law and identify the source of claimed additional energy.

[dire67]

As far as I can tell, hydrolysis has nothing to do with producing energy, only with freeing the hydrogen. The thermodynamic laws apply to the hydrogen, not the hydrolysis. The hydrogen contains the energy. Simple mislacement of vaiables, that's all. I do it all the time. :-)

[HAL11000]

Ah...thank you. Its hard to find some one that is civilized in comunication.

One may be able to produce hydrogen by electrolysis. However, the conversion will never make economic sense. In the market place, hydrogen would have to compete with its own source of energy, i.e. with ("green") electricity from

the grid. For this reason, creating a new energy carrier is a no-win solution. We have to solve an energy problem not an energy carrier problem.

[HAL11000]

I analyzed a variety of methods for synthesizing, storing and delivering hydrogen, since no single method has yet proven superior. To start, hydrogen is not naturally occurring, but must be synthesized. Ultimately, hydrogen has to be made from renewable electricity by electrolysis of water in the beginning, and then its energy content is converted back to electricity with fuel cells when it's recombined with oxygen to water.

[HAL11000]

Separating hydrogen from water by electrolysis requires massive amounts of electrical energy and substantial amounts of water. Also, hydrogen is not a source of energy, but only a carrier of energy. As a carrier, it plays a role similar to that of water in a hydraulic heating system or electrons in a copper wire. When delivering hydrogen, whether by truck or pipeline, the energy costs are several times that for established energy carriers like natural gas or gasoline.

[HAL11000]

Even the most efficient fuel cells cannot recover these losses. For comparison, the "wind-to-wheel" efficiency is at least three times greater for electric cars than for hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

[HAL11000]

Another headache is storage. When storing liquid hydrogen, some gas must be allowed to evaporate for safety reasons—meaning that after two weeks, a car would lose half of its fuel, even when not being driven. I found that the output-input efficiency cannot be much above 30%, while advanced batteries have a cycle efficiency of above 80%. In every situation, the energy input outweighs the energy delivered by a factor of three to four.

[HAL11000]

About four renewable power plants have to be erected to deliver the output of one plant to stationary or mobile consumers via hydrogen and fuel cells, three of these plants generate energy to cover the parasitic losses of the hydrogen economy while only one of them is producing useful energy.

[HAL11000]

This fact cannot be changed with improvements in technology. Rather, the one-quarter efficiency is based on necessary processes of a hydrogen economy and the properties of hydrogen itself, e.g. its low density and extremely low boiling point, which increase the energy cost of compression or liquefaction and the investment costs of storage.

[HAL11000]

Economically, the wasteful hydrogen process translates to electricity from hydrogen and fuel cells costing at least four times as much as electricity from the grid. In fact, electricity would be much more efficiently used if it were sent directly

to the appliances instead. If the original electricity could be directly supplied by wires, as much as 90% could be used in applications.

[HAL11000]

An electron economy can offer the shortest, most efficient and most economical way of transporting the sustainable 'green' energy to the consumer. With the exception of nuclear and some solar or geothermal heat, wind, water, solar, geothermal, heat from waste incineration become available as electricity. Electricity could provide

power for cars, comfortable temperature in buildings, heat, light, and communication.

[dire67]

With very little electricity, I was able to produce hydrogen with crude apperatus.This is not out of a mathbook, it happened.

[HAL11000]

Thank you again for not being angry at me. The truth is that hydrogen distracts attention from the real and immediate potential of electric vehicles to an unlikely future possibility embraced by automakers, oil companies and a pro-business administration in order to buy time and profits for the status quo. Yes any individual can make hydrogen with a 9V battery, but harnessing it to power somthing is very inefficient UNLESS a direct thermonuclear fusion reaction with boron is implemented.

[dire67]

HAL, anger is for the ignorant.Hydrogen in it's gasious state is one of the most unstable substances on earth. This makes it among the easiest to harness power from.You need only a spark, in the case of the internal combustion engine, or a proton conductor (fuel cell).

[HAL11000]

The wholesale cost of commercial grade liquid hydrogen (made the cheap way, from hydrocarbons) shipped to large customers in the United States is about $6 per kilogram. High purity hydrogen made from electrolysis for scientific applications costs considerably more. Dispensed in compressed gas cylinders to retail customers, the current price of commercial grade hydrogen is about $100 per kilogram.

[HAL11000]

OR you get the hydrogen from Natural gas. Like the university of CSUN. Its much easier to get hydrogen fron natural gas than water. With the help of the grid, gas trubines and a large PV solar array you can recover some of the parasitic losess of the fuel cell.

[HAL11000]

However, the wholesale cost of commercial grade liquid hydrogen (made the cheap way, from hydrocarbons) shipped to large customers in the United States is about $6 per kilogram. High purity hydrogen made from electrolysis for scientific applications costs considerably more. Dispensed in compressed gas cylinders to retail customers, the current price of commercial grade hydrogen is about $100 per kilogram.

[HAL11000]

The wholesale cost of commercial grade liquid hydrogen (made the cheap way, from hydrocarbons) shipped to large customers in the United States is about $6 per kilogram. High purity hydrogen made from electrolysis for scientific applications costs considerably more. Dispensed in compressed gas cylinders to retail customers, the current price of commercial grade hydrogen is about $100 per kilogram.

[dire67]

HAL, you talk quite a bit, but you haven't heard a thing said.Hydrogen can be cheap to make.Nothing can ever be done by focusing on how it can't be done. THAT is a proven fact.

[dire67]

I've been trying to tell you how easily hydrogen can be made from water.The current processes take too much power, but new developements are changing that. If I, an ignoramus, can do it with such crude equipment, how much better can someone who knows what he's doing?

[HAL11000]

*Takes 800 mg of Ibuprofen* Sigh, yes, you made hydrogen, very, very nice... How many Kg have you produced?

[dire67]

The point is that it was possible, and without using a boat load of power. The trick now is to refine the process and make more.

ps: I've got some Endocet.

[HAL11000]

Yes extracting H from water is feasible. True, you don't need a lot of power to get little bubbles of H. The trillion dollar question is, how long will it take to make one Kg of hydrogen on the amount of power you are using? It costs me $100 to get one kg of H from water. One kg of H has the same amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline. Who would buy $100/gallon worth of gasoline?

[dire67]

Dude, are you getting paid to knock the idea?The fact is that people are producing a lot of hydrogen with less than 12 volts.If nothing else, look around YouTube.If I've gotta tell ou any more, I'll have to charge you for education.

[HAL11000]

That goes for you dire67.

[dire67]

HAL, this is what I'm trying to tell you.I've already told you that anger was for the ignorant.You didn't here it.Where do you get off calling anybody stupid? I've been trying to slow to your speed, because I thought you had potential.maybe I was wrong.

[HAL11000]

Even made cheeply form refoming hydrocarbons like the univerity of CSUN is $6 per kilogram. This means that even if hydrogen cars were available and hydrogen stations existed to fuel them, no one with the power to choose otherwise would ever buy such vehicles. This fact alone makes the hydrogen economy a non-starter in a free society.

[HAL11000]

Then again, It seems to be a hoax, like the Magnetizer installation kit. The company claimes that "Our product reduces (up to 99%) toxic emissions of carbon monoxide (CO), hydrocarbons (HC) & nitrogen oxides (NOx) and drastically increases combustion efficiency"...My Fiero still gets 20 MPG, and isn't even close to be PZEV.

[carlayling]

We are the people and what we want we can get, anytime we want it. We just have to elect the people into office who are willing to give us what we ask for. We can demand responsible government and we can get it, as soon as we make the decision to imagine a different world it will be our immediately. No matter what anyone says, we have the power to change anything!

[HAL11000]

Even if we ignore costs completely and generate hydrogen for vehicle fuel using water electrolysis came from nuclear, hydro, wind, or solar power, wasting it on hydrogen generation would still increase overall carbon dioxide emissions relative to the alternative of simply putting the power into the grid.

[carlayling]

I have a friend who has built a water car, and he uses a small battery, from 6 volts he can generate about 20 000 volts through a type of transformer, that uses automotive coils. This oscillator can be homemade or you can buy it off the shelf. The high voltage is needed because of this type of conversion, there are no spark plugs, so, this change of flux, from small voltage to high voltage is for the spark needed for the fuel to ignite and also to separate the fuel cell from the water molecule.

[murdoc900]

When one of these explodes then "there goes the neighborhood".

[MajorKick]

enuf with today's battery technology but oil company's and GM push it out and bot the company's that made the battery technology when CA got rid of the bill saying car company's had to have 1 no emissions car lol you can gess y CA got ride of it Hint Hint oil compiny stock holders in the bord >.< dam them.

[MajorKick]

Im veay happy to see fual cell being used but yes the oil company's have favered this becuz its so far long in its development as far as making the hygergen. And yes oil company's have way to much power over what comes out lol take the EV1 car for example if it was out today it whud have bin more then efficient --

[HAL11000]

This is favoring the automotive and oil companies. The reason why they are doing research on hydrogen cars rather than electric cars is because it takes 3x more energy to power a hydrogen car the same distance of an electric car. And the cheapest way to get hydrogen, is through fossil fuels. Remember the electric cars they destroyed?

[carlayling]

Dude, you get hydrogen from water. You don't have to get it from fossil fuels. They just want you to think the best way is from gas because it still is a fuel that they can control, but we don't need anything but water, sea water, any kind of water!

[HAL11000]

Hydrogen is only a source of energy if it can be taken in its PURE form and reacted with another chemical, such as oxygen. But all the hydrogen on Earth, except that in hydrocarbons, has already been oxidized, so none of it is available as fuel.

The only way to get free hydrogen on Earth is to make it. The trouble is that making hydrogen requires more energy than the hydrogen so produced can provide.

[weeardguy]

I hate those Citaro's. So called 'silent' ugly busses.

[saadfarrukh]

I wish there was somthing like this in North America

[jqdsilva]

As long as Haliburton exist, those types of buses won't make it to the US.

[carbonfreefuel]

Bless you Mercedes Benz: Fuel Cell Bus team! You are winning the Human Race one bus at a time.

Sincerely,

Andrew John Heath

[Markus200760]

This is the future. Have also a look at my video response regarding solar energy.

[forddeeler]

I agree with you, It is the future. We should all have them in the major cities around the world. But the petrol companies wont like that because they wont be making any money. There is too much greed now sadly