@Reni. We've got som of Naiches relatives here. Id love to hear some more stories about Naiches adventures, from them. I heard he was sent to FL with Geronimo, then later sent back 2 AZ. 1 story says he escaped the train on the way 2 FL. But sum say that was really Massai.. Seem 2 b a lot of stories & legends surrounding him...
Apparently Naiche never surrendered, he was part of a small band of Apache that lived hidden in the Sierra Madre into the 1930's. They were never found apart from a young girl in the 1930's that was found. There was even reports from Mexicans and was confirmed by other Apache that they were definitely still there somewhere.
@ImReniXx You are wrong my friend. Naiche was part of the band that surrendered to Crook and six months later to Miles.They were sent to Florida,from there to Alabama and from there to Fort Sill. A lot of pictures prove that he was there.The band hidden in the Sierra Madre was probably led a white man that Chato and Bonito kidnapped in 1883,his name was Charlie McComas and was four years old back then.Witnesses of the raids of this band said there was blonde man leading them.
A lot of people seem to 2 b related! Not saying I doubt any of you... {after all, he did have several wives, right? And 4 all we know, a few girls on the side, as well!} But just curious, do u all know each other? Sometimes wonder, the way his pic "spoke" 2 me, 1rst time I saw it, if I might b a distant relation 2. Tho no Apache blood in my family that I no of, just Cherokee...
Great vid you made Thanks, about "train escape" ; sometimes he's named Fun/Hui (the one who escorts Naiches-horse) when G surrended. But there´s another story " woman deliver baby in nitetrain and warrior escaped, U.S.Cavalry only count heads!" , in this case he's named "Massai"...
@138kayante Thanks Kayante. Seems I hear different versions of this story, all over the place! Any idea where I could find some of these stories recorded? the only place I've run across this story, is in an old library book about Mickey Free... Jut t happened to mention Natche, as a side note...(never heard of him, before that)
Hey, try Alexsander B. Adams - Geronimo '71 , (re-prints should be available ) , Naiche been mentioned few times ! You'll find story about; when G, N, and 30 others surrended ..." two warriors + woman split, US Cavalry didn't care (no firearms & horses).
Nice tribute. Naiche was my Great Grandmothers father, I guess that would make him my Great Great Grandfather. Naiches daughter ,(Maria Elena Espinoza) was then married to Frank James Kirkland, my Great Grandfather.
Nice to meet you, Indian! Hope you're enjoying my little "family collage", in that case? Any chance you have more family photos you'd like to share?? I think he looks a bit like my Grandpa, in the pic with his hair cut off, but there is no history of Apache in my family, only Cherokee! Yet I think there was a reason I felt "drawn" to him....
Glad you liked it, Indian. We spoke here before, right?? Was wondering if you might have any other family photos you'd like to share? I've been a bit "obsessed" with Naiche, ever since viewing a photo of him, in a library book about Mickey Free. Do you know who Mickey Free is?
I think Naiche one of the most fascinating and poignant figures of the US-Chiricahua conflicts. Most people have never heard of him. Thank you for posting this, and thank you Naichehistory for your informative comments.
Interesting little tidbits of info... I'm curious though, were did you find your info? I have noticed "historical accounts" tend to differ a lot, when it comes to Native American history. I've read a couple of different versions of the "train incident". You even see some of the names, & reenactments of actual historical events, popping up as "fiction", in movies & books. I saw a western, that was supposed to be about Massai, but it seems they changed the story plot around, to suit themselves.!
Hey, just went over to Wikipedia, & searched "Massai" - which did verify everything you just said about the "train incident". Also did a search on YouTube, found this old trailer of the movie I mentioned. It's pretty comical! (search -Apache/Burt Lancaster, it's not letting me post the URL)
Another incorrect spelling of Naiche's name was "Naichite." This is how it's spelled on the plaque on the Geronimo Surrender monument in the little town of Apache, AZ.
Also, you have Mangus' name spelled wrong in the video. His father's name was Mangas Coloradas, spelled with an "A" in the first name, and his son spelled his with a "U." Thus, Mangas and Mangus.
I apologize for any mispellings, though I would like to verify "sources", before changing anything? I suspect names get changed, due to differences in dialect, sometimes? The movie I watched about Massai (loosely based western fiction, I'm sure), seemed to revolve around his love for a Native girl, and his eventual kidnapping of her. There were some scenes about him, escaping into Cherokee territory, which seemed to allude the "great train escape", though I don't remember all the details now.
My research has turned up "Naiche" or "Natchez", so far. (two versions of the name, for the same person) Never heard of "Nacho" before, (except the kind with cheese and jalapeno's on em!) Which doesn't mean such a name doesn't exist, just that I haven't heard of it before.
I think all the versions are possibly based on one "root word"? Would probably help to know what that is, and what it means.
Naiche is for Nacho A Mexican Apache , but US historians changr the name for naiche, always lying about history Nacho is A Mexican Apache, same as Geronimo Vitorio an Juh al Mexican Apaches
Whare did you get the picture of Cochise ? I live in the desert near the Stronghold and always was told and read that there was never a picture taken of the great Chief.
I believe the pic of Cochise, included in this video montage, is a "sketch", rather than an actual photo. I actually don't remember how the sketch came into existence. Something I found on a website somewhere... It may or may not be historically accurate. (Unfortunately, I often don't think to keep records of where I get things!)
Eaayah! & Hooyah (navy girl here) I really love this trubute to Chief Naiche (6x great grandfather). I esp. love the music/drumbeat in the background :) You are awesome!
Running loose? Not quite. The book is called Great Apache Chiefs, which is kinda funny since Goyaklay was never a chief. It's stashed somewhere in my garage with about 800 other books so I'll have to find it before I can give you the publisher and year. It's a combination of two other books and I'll give you the names of those as well. If you have access to a university library, you should be able to find it easily enough.
Yep, running loose, like an escaped tiger! HeHe. I can just imagine what a stir this must have created, amongst the white locals. A RENEGADE APACHE loose in Louisiana???? Although, it appears at least SOMEONE was rather PROUND of his little "visit", considering all the stuff that got named for him, afterwards! (At least that's how it appears. I wonder if there are any local stories associated with his visit? Maybe some local tribes took him in, for awhile?)
I have no idea, sorry...Don't know anything about this incident. (hey, my cursor is moving by itself. What is that about??)
At the end of the video, you'll see a small pic of a book that Naiche published, which, (from what I understand, I've never read it, myself) contains some of his artwork and poetry too. The book is titled: "Chiricahua Apache Enduring Power"
There is a book I have at home that when I get there tomorrow I'll go online(I'm on the road now) and send you the name of it. But wallclaysd is right about a son of Cochise's coming in for rations in Mexico as a child who wasn't Naiche. I remember reading something about Naiche being deceived by Geronimo, though. If you take a look at the pictures, Geronimo always deferred to Naiche.
I don't know anything about this incident, or what it might signify.
The incident I am curious about, is when Naiche purportedly jumped off a train headed for Florida, & was running loose in Louisiana, for awhile. I read about this a long time ago, haven't come across anything about it recently. I noticed there are some towns, roads, businesses, in Louisiana, named "Natchez", and wonder if that is to commemorate this incident? (You dont see these kinds of names in LA. too often.)
So, who was the son with whom Cochise came in for rations in 1854 or thereabouts in Mexico, then? Taza? Because Naiche seems to be too young for that. ?Wasn't Naiche said to be a good artist as well?
Thanks, and thanks for the heads up, Carlos. I did a search on Goyakla yesterday, and discovered it is the Apache name for Geronimo. (actually got more results on the slightly different - "Goyaklay") I guess we can call it another "DUH" moment! Kind of funny, all it means is "one who yawns". You'd think it would be something more sheik or sophisticated, for a personality like Geronimo??
Who's Goyakla? Will have to research that one some more! I developed an interest in Naiche, after running across his photo, in a book about Mickey Free. Kind of developed an "obsession" with him, which led to collecting photos associated with him, and learning some more about Apache history. There is still much I don't know, however! I've noticed that sometimes books about Naiche and/or Apache history will sometimes make conflicting statements, so maybe not everything written, is true?
Wasn't he deceived into joining goyakla on his last breakout? Isn't it funny that everyone knows about Goyakla, when goyakla wasn't even a chief in the first place? The last free Apaches were slaughtered in 1935 in the Sierra Madre: Meed, Douglas- They Never Surrendered. Available through Amazon
I thought some were off only till 1917 something. Thanks for the tip.
if you see the apache strongholds it's weird they could not resist longer. I mean the talibans have no problem and they are fighting 21th century weaponry and ..apache helicopters . Probably they have more local support and no families to feed, but still..
@Reni. We've got som of Naiches relatives here. Id love to hear some more stories about Naiches adventures, from them. I heard he was sent to FL with Geronimo, then later sent back 2 AZ. 1 story says he escaped the train on the way 2 FL. But sum say that was really Massai.. Seem 2 b a lot of stories & legends surrounding him...
glynnth 2 months ago
Apparently Naiche never surrendered, he was part of a small band of Apache that lived hidden in the Sierra Madre into the 1930's. They were never found apart from a young girl in the 1930's that was found. There was even reports from Mexicans and was confirmed by other Apache that they were definitely still there somewhere.
ImReniXx 2 months ago
@ImReniXx You are wrong my friend. Naiche was part of the band that surrendered to Crook and six months later to Miles.They were sent to Florida,from there to Alabama and from there to Fort Sill. A lot of pictures prove that he was there.The band hidden in the Sierra Madre was probably led a white man that Chato and Bonito kidnapped in 1883,his name was Charlie McComas and was four years old back then.Witnesses of the raids of this band said there was blonde man leading them.
TheCultio 1 month ago
did you know that naiche and his familly are my great great great grandpas grandmas and all that stuff including geronimo US APACHES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!
TheEmber02 1 year ago
A lot of people seem to 2 b related! Not saying I doubt any of you... {after all, he did have several wives, right? And 4 all we know, a few girls on the side, as well!} But just curious, do u all know each other? Sometimes wonder, the way his pic "spoke" 2 me, 1rst time I saw it, if I might b a distant relation 2. Tho no Apache blood in my family that I no of, just Cherokee...
glynnth 1 year ago
Thank you for such a beautiful Tribute to My Great Great Great Grandfather! The Great Spirit has many blessings in store for you!
Ninak Nashoba
C9Studios 1 year ago
Great vid you made Thanks, about "train escape" ; sometimes he's named Fun/Hui (the one who escorts Naiches-horse) when G surrended. But there´s another story " woman deliver baby in nitetrain and warrior escaped, U.S.Cavalry only count heads!" , in this case he's named "Massai"...
138kayante 1 year ago
@138kayante Thanks Kayante. Seems I hear different versions of this story, all over the place! Any idea where I could find some of these stories recorded? the only place I've run across this story, is in an old library book about Mickey Free... Jut t happened to mention Natche, as a side note...(never heard of him, before that)
glynnth 1 year ago
Hey, try Alexsander B. Adams - Geronimo '71 , (re-prints should be available ) , Naiche been mentioned few times ! You'll find story about; when G, N, and 30 others surrended ..." two warriors + woman split, US Cavalry didn't care (no firearms & horses).
138kayante 1 year ago
@138kayante - Oh, this is all verrry interrresting. (and the plot thickens...) Thanks for the heads up on which book to look for, Kayante!
glynnth 1 year ago
@lacerise62
No comprende espanol!
glynnth 1 year ago
@lacerise62
He's MUCHO MACHO!
glynnth 1 year ago
I'm related to him and I am named after Taza! I have his nose somehow?!
smfan2000 1 year ago
MY NAME FRANCISCO NACHEZ IT MY GREAT GRANDFATHER
djgnachez 1 year ago
@djgnachez
So, are you anywhere near as handsome as your ancestor?? ; )
glynnth 1 year ago
Nice tribute. Naiche was my Great Grandmothers father, I guess that would make him my Great Great Grandfather. Naiches daughter ,(Maria Elena Espinoza) was then married to Frank James Kirkland, my Great Grandfather.
indianhead65 1 year ago
@indianhead65
Nice to meet you, Indian! Hope you're enjoying my little "family collage", in that case? Any chance you have more family photos you'd like to share?? I think he looks a bit like my Grandpa, in the pic with his hair cut off, but there is no history of Apache in my family, only Cherokee! Yet I think there was a reason I felt "drawn" to him....
glynnth 1 year ago
Glad you liked it, Indian. We spoke here before, right?? Was wondering if you might have any other family photos you'd like to share? I've been a bit "obsessed" with Naiche, ever since viewing a photo of him, in a library book about Mickey Free. Do you know who Mickey Free is?
glynnth 1 year ago
I think Naiche one of the most fascinating and poignant figures of the US-Chiricahua conflicts. Most people have never heard of him. Thank you for posting this, and thank you Naichehistory for your informative comments.
CSFLY77 1 year ago
Also, the Chiricahua Apache who escaped from the train was Massai, not Naiche.
naichehistory 1 year ago
Interesting little tidbits of info... I'm curious though, were did you find your info? I have noticed "historical accounts" tend to differ a lot, when it comes to Native American history. I've read a couple of different versions of the "train incident". You even see some of the names, & reenactments of actual historical events, popping up as "fiction", in movies & books. I saw a western, that was supposed to be about Massai, but it seems they changed the story plot around, to suit themselves.!
glynnth 1 year ago
Hey, just went over to Wikipedia, & searched "Massai" - which did verify everything you just said about the "train incident". Also did a search on YouTube, found this old trailer of the movie I mentioned. It's pretty comical! (search -Apache/Burt Lancaster, it's not letting me post the URL)
glynnth 1 year ago
Another incorrect spelling of Naiche's name was "Naichite." This is how it's spelled on the plaque on the Geronimo Surrender monument in the little town of Apache, AZ.
Also, you have Mangus' name spelled wrong in the video. His father's name was Mangas Coloradas, spelled with an "A" in the first name, and his son spelled his with a "U." Thus, Mangas and Mangus.
naichehistory 1 year ago
I apologize for any mispellings, though I would like to verify "sources", before changing anything? I suspect names get changed, due to differences in dialect, sometimes? The movie I watched about Massai (loosely based western fiction, I'm sure), seemed to revolve around his love for a Native girl, and his eventual kidnapping of her. There were some scenes about him, escaping into Cherokee territory, which seemed to allude the "great train escape", though I don't remember all the details now.
glynnth 1 year ago
Original Americans Forever
R.I.P.
NatKingCole46 2 years ago
Comment removed
walkingreader 2 years ago
heyy my names naiche too deadasss and so is my fathers! does this mean im related to him? cuz im a shinnecock indian
SoReal1995 2 years ago
My research has turned up "Naiche" or "Natchez", so far. (two versions of the name, for the same person) Never heard of "Nacho" before, (except the kind with cheese and jalapeno's on em!) Which doesn't mean such a name doesn't exist, just that I haven't heard of it before.
I think all the versions are possibly based on one "root word"? Would probably help to know what that is, and what it means.
Anyone know?
glynnth 2 years ago
I too have heard of "Nacho" as a possible name.
Consider his brother "Taza".Some people have
asked what the name means in Apache,but I do
think it comes from the Spanish word for "cup".
I can think of other Apaches who adopted Spanish
names: Geronimo,Mangas,Victorio,Benito,Juana,
CarlosMacMartin 2 years ago
hi :)
to all people who asking about "nacho"
Nacho is a affective diminutive of Ignacio in romanian languages (like portugues , español & Italiano)
Like "Sasha" for the eastern europe names "Alexandra"
and no :) nacho doesn't mean anything to cup in spanish, sorry :)
pd: very interesting the apache culture
Cziczarkko 2 years ago
Naiche is for Nacho A Mexican Apache , but US historians changr the name for naiche, always lying about history Nacho is A Mexican Apache, same as Geronimo Vitorio an Juh al Mexican Apaches
mexicantomato40 2 years ago
Whare did you get the picture of Cochise ? I live in the desert near the Stronghold and always was told and read that there was never a picture taken of the great Chief.
StewedTomato 2 years ago
I believe the pic of Cochise, included in this video montage, is a "sketch", rather than an actual photo. I actually don't remember how the sketch came into existence. Something I found on a website somewhere... It may or may not be historically accurate. (Unfortunately, I often don't think to keep records of where I get things!)
glynnth 2 years ago
Eaayah! & Hooyah (navy girl here) I really love this trubute to Chief Naiche (6x great grandfather). I esp. love the music/drumbeat in the background :) You are awesome!
u2aquazoo 2 years ago
Arizona,New Mexico,Texas,and Mexico!!! EEYAHH
Where my Relatives,Kin,and I come from!!!
CarlosMacMartin 3 years ago
what is Onetruemedia? a program like the Windows Movie Maker?
zensorship 3 years ago
WOOHOO MY NAME IS NAICHE!
naichez 3 years ago
Hey, that's cool. It's a good name. (I think) Any relation?
Any idea what the name means?
glynnth 3 years ago
I believe warrior, am i right?It was something like that... Sorry for my (very) late response, i dont come much online on youtube :p
naichez 2 years ago
Good tribute thank you !
breffnipark 3 years ago
Running loose? Not quite. The book is called Great Apache Chiefs, which is kinda funny since Goyaklay was never a chief. It's stashed somewhere in my garage with about 800 other books so I'll have to find it before I can give you the publisher and year. It's a combination of two other books and I'll give you the names of those as well. If you have access to a university library, you should be able to find it easily enough.
walkingreader 3 years ago
Yep, running loose, like an escaped tiger! HeHe. I can just imagine what a stir this must have created, amongst the white locals. A RENEGADE APACHE loose in Louisiana???? Although, it appears at least SOMEONE was rather PROUND of his little "visit", considering all the stuff that got named for him, afterwards! (At least that's how it appears. I wonder if there are any local stories associated with his visit? Maybe some local tribes took him in, for awhile?)
glynnth 3 years ago
I have no idea, sorry...Don't know anything about this incident. (hey, my cursor is moving by itself. What is that about??)
At the end of the video, you'll see a small pic of a book that Naiche published, which, (from what I understand, I've never read it, myself) contains some of his artwork and poetry too. The book is titled: "Chiricahua Apache Enduring Power"
glynnth 3 years ago
There is a book I have at home that when I get there tomorrow I'll go online(I'm on the road now) and send you the name of it. But wallclaysd is right about a son of Cochise's coming in for rations in Mexico as a child who wasn't Naiche. I remember reading something about Naiche being deceived by Geronimo, though. If you take a look at the pictures, Geronimo always deferred to Naiche.
walkingreader 3 years ago
I don't know anything about this incident, or what it might signify.
The incident I am curious about, is when Naiche purportedly jumped off a train headed for Florida, & was running loose in Louisiana, for awhile. I read about this a long time ago, haven't come across anything about it recently. I noticed there are some towns, roads, businesses, in Louisiana, named "Natchez", and wonder if that is to commemorate this incident? (You dont see these kinds of names in LA. too often.)
glynnth 3 years ago
So, who was the son with whom Cochise came in for rations in 1854 or thereabouts in Mexico, then? Taza? Because Naiche seems to be too young for that. ?Wasn't Naiche said to be a good artist as well?
wallclaysd 3 years ago
Very nice, thank you.
apachebutterfly 3 years ago
Congratulations! Excellent Tribute Video! The name "Goyakla" means "One who yawns".This is
the true name of Geronimo.Geronimo was given
to him by the Mexicans.And he was a medicine
man and war leader,not a chief.
CarlosMacMartin 3 years ago
Thanks, and thanks for the heads up, Carlos. I did a search on Goyakla yesterday, and discovered it is the Apache name for Geronimo. (actually got more results on the slightly different - "Goyaklay") I guess we can call it another "DUH" moment! Kind of funny, all it means is "one who yawns". You'd think it would be something more sheik or sophisticated, for a personality like Geronimo??
glynnth 3 years ago
Who's Goyakla? Will have to research that one some more! I developed an interest in Naiche, after running across his photo, in a book about Mickey Free. Kind of developed an "obsession" with him, which led to collecting photos associated with him, and learning some more about Apache history. There is still much I don't know, however! I've noticed that sometimes books about Naiche and/or Apache history will sometimes make conflicting statements, so maybe not everything written, is true?
glynnth 3 years ago
Goyakla = Geronimo
Mamboro17 3 years ago
Wasn't he deceived into joining goyakla on his last breakout? Isn't it funny that everyone knows about Goyakla, when goyakla wasn't even a chief in the first place? The last free Apaches were slaughtered in 1935 in the Sierra Madre: Meed, Douglas- They Never Surrendered. Available through Amazon
wallclaysd 3 years ago
I thought some were off only till 1917 something. Thanks for the tip.
if you see the apache strongholds it's weird they could not resist longer. I mean the talibans have no problem and they are fighting 21th century weaponry and ..apache helicopters . Probably they have more local support and no families to feed, but still..
Apaches ruled.
wolfgang911 3 years ago
Well done G.
LakotaRepublic 3 years ago