Doha Debate! the war on terror has become a war on Islam 1/5

[desiguy55]

the war against hasn't begun yet. but if it ever did muslims and islam will be dead with a decade.

[Hkhan23]

If anybody seriously believes that the 9/11 attacks were done by bin lade and Al -Queda... you are seriously a stupid and gullible idiot.. the debate should be WHO DID 9/11???

[predonin]

@Hkhan23  islamic teachings and promise of islamic brother in the sky

[satanischristian]

9/11 was done by the zionist jews with the help of zionist christian govt in power.

it was carried out 2 justify the terrorism done against muslims 2 grab their resources & 2 destroy islam.

islam is the biggest threat 2 western terror capitalist bloodsucking system.

the problem is they tried with 4 crusades 2 destroy islam & this one is the 5th crusade but they need 2 understand muslims & islam cant b defeated.

islam is the truth & ppl need 2 study it 2 understand its beauty & justice 2 all ppl.

[anuarag67]

@satanischristian They cannot defeat Islam because Islam is from ALLAH.

[EasternGateGuardian]

@anuarag67

yeah, and Allah comes from Ilah, like Eloah aka El, king of the Elohim in Phoenician, which known as Kronos by the greeks...

[anuarag67]

@predonin READ MY LIPS " You shall meet ALLAH, the one who created you on the day of judgement" ALLAH shall determine you fate ! I am afraId of ALLAH and his punishment is very very severe...." DONT SAY THAT...YOU shall regret.

[predonin]

@anuarag67 THERE IS NO GOD YOU RETARDE MUSLIM SHIT , YOU ARE A FUCKIN RETARD , THE ONLY THING I REGRET IS NOT BEING ABLE TO SMASH YOUR FACE RIGHT NOW ,

[Lightia]

He says a dozen blocks from 9/11 Sorry starting off wrong its a block and 1/2 not 12 blockes,AND 4 blocks is another Mosque on Warren Street what do they need another for. BBC again is bias for muslims, listen carefully to the intro of 9/11 Mosque British shananagans!

[mowgly3000]

Islam started the WAR with their filthy Koran (nothing more than terrible plegirism of Judaism and Christianity and local paganism) when (illiterate warlord) Mohamed divided the world in two parts: Islam & War Zone. We are simply (and overdue) fight BACK and won't submit to this evil cancer that all free people everywhere were subjugated for way too long (14 centuries) and for every one of your suicide bomber we have a person with MA in science

[mowgly3000]

Islam is not a religion. This fascism and imperialism and jihadizm and backwardness has to stop. Islam is terror, and I'm all for war against Islam. There is no such concept as radical islam, there is just Islam. We are superior, there is no longer any slavery in non-islamic country - I call that progress and hence superiority. Muslims are not born inferior they become inferior due to their backwards ideology

[dpremi1126]

Muslims not only request to Prophet Mohammed but they request to Christian and Jesus also respect the all messenger since its the god command. But its very sad that the Zionist Jews spread in all over the Europe and america who is controlling the American and Europe main stream media spreading and giving negative image 24/7 hours and brain washing against Islam and Muslims. Wake up oh people get the knowledge by true and perfect Muslims scholar dont be the victim of dirty media

[israelifaggot]

yes it is a war against Islam. the world has now divided once again into Islam and kufr, and only one can prevail. through intelligent argument, high birth rates and high conversion rates Islam will be the victor.

[Hillsillverr]

Moderate muslims have no voice in islam!

Therefore, we have to step in and save them from their own doom!

They can not be trusted with their own survival!

[LuqmanNaq]

What makes you think that moderates have no voice? In what context?

[Hillsillverr]

What makes you think that muslims are moderate??? I can go on, and on why moderate muslims have no voince, but i would like to hear why you think muslims are moderate.......

[LuqmanNaq]

You made statement and I asked you the reason behind it. Why are you turning the question back on me? What is your definition of a moderate? What are you basing your perception on that 'moderates have no voice', TV news? (serious question)

[Hillsillverr]

A Moderate muslim are those who are pro human rights!

Tell me what Islamic state has moderate muslims in power??? Saudi arabia? Iran? Iraq? etc...

None are moderate, or pro human rights!

They are all fundies..................

Muslims should be agains these fundamentalists to prevent us from have to do something about it! But moderate muslims are the infidels, and they have no voice! Islam belongs in the stoneages.....

[LuqmanNaq]

I don't support those govs, however if you look at groups like Amnesty int or human rights watch they condemn almost every modern gov for gross human rights violations. The UK and US govs are supporters of the saudi gov, they were supporters of Musharraf, and are supporters of the chinese gov. They helped Saddam stay in power, also check out the Iran contra affair. If you look into how these fascist govs, got into power and maintain it you will see other UK and US assistance.

[LuqmanNaq]

Moderate muslims are against those govs, and though it may shock you to know even Islamists like hizbut tahrir are against those govs. There are plenty of moderate think tanks like Zaytuna, ISNA, Quilliam foundation, and the radical middle way (US and UK orgs) that are very vocal in the muslim community. This is of course a crisis period within the religion, however every religion has had them.

[LuqmanNaq]

I forgot to add if your aware of how Al Qaeda was formed? With assistance from the US gov. Also Hamas was formed with assistance from Israel to help take down Yassar Arafat's gov. Also do you serious believe that the government installed by the US gov in Iraq are fundamentalists? The US should stop propping up the monarchist Saudi government.

[Hillsillverr]

Yeah your right, but fundamentalists are Islams biggest treath, because they are the ones who are instigating things all the time. Also the religion it self is based on politics. Not only that but it is promoting inhumane acts! The U.S. is incapable of stablizing Iraq because there is just too many problems to deal with. They should have just totally taken it over for min of two decades! We need westernized muslims to have a stronger voice in Islam!

[LuqmanNaq]

The US military invasion is the major reason that Iraq is so instable. They were under a cruel dictator before but they never had the incredible amount of problems they have now. The US gov should have taken Reagon's position that problems in the Middle east are too complex for US military intervention should solve. People need to realize that military intervention creates as many problems as it 'solves'. A major reason for extremism is the amount of US bases and intervention in the middle east

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq The irony in your statement is that you credit baathist cruelty for keeping Iraq together, when it was baathist cruelty in large part that caused the chaos after the invasion. You'd never think to blame them, no, rather you'd want to be back in power. How curious the modern Muslim mind works.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica How is baathis cruely in large part to blame? You don't beleive that a military invasion and 7 yr occupation by a foreign country is a major cause of national instability? The modern muslim mind? So you take my comment on a youtube video as representative of the 'modern muslim mind' in general? Do you generalize like that alot? That is the root of racism and xenophobia you know.

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq The insurgency was largely sunni Arab, and pro-Saddam, and pro-al-Qaeda.

The U.S. occupied Germany and Japan, and they were stable.

I believe you speak on behalf of yourself, but your opinion is actually pretty mainstream on the arab street. I speak with a lot of Muslims, and arabs. Generalizations are the basis of sociology too, my friend, and are always taken into account when forming public, or foreign policy.

Play the race card, but the hand I dealt, I think, is better.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica GER 4 yr and Japan 1 yr, and I think you'll agree that the political climate of the middle east is very different. Anti US, and pro islamic fascism I'd say. Can you name which groups currently operating that are pro Saddam? Do you know there are many different sects under the sunni branch? Generalizations may be the basis of sociology (never studied) but best not to rely on generalizations because it tends to lead to prejudice - people who rely on it tend to discard individuality. 

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq The U.S. occupied Iraq for 14 months, after which an Iraqi transitional government was set up, and elections were held in 2005. The U.S. still has a troop presence in Germany and Japan, but no one claims they're occupied. U.S. troops in Iraq can only operate in places authorized by the Iraqi government, but Muslim demagogues still rail against American "occupation".

Yes, the mid-east is filled with fascists and religious fanatics, and that's the prob, not America fighting them.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica I hope you agree that troops stationed at a base, is different to an ongoing military campaign!? I'll be honest I think that the Iraqi gov is 'approved' by the US gov. You believe that the politicians were sincere? (you trust them?) 'for democracy', 'to fight terrorism'. Basically they did it prop up the collapsing economy, for resources like oil and minerals (recently pentagon official 'found' a trillion dollars worth of lithium in afghanistan), and to expand geopolitical influence

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq U.S. troops are stationed on bases outside of the cities.

Yes, I believe the Bush admin wanted to establish a democracy, rather than prop up a dictator. They were of the opinion, that given the example of Germany and Japan, a democratic Iraq would be less aggressive towards its neighbours, would flourish and would create opportunity, rather than hatred, for the next generation.

The whole war for oil is bunk to anyone who's been following who has been awarded iraqi oil contracts.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica There's an ongoing military campaign in Iraq and afghanistan simple fact . Saddam was pricing oil in euros bad for US economy, oil demand increasing by millions of brls each yr, some estimate oil has reached peak production world wide (finite resource), Iraq is a strategic location for geo poltical power. Why did the US overlook fascist regimes like North Korea, Zimbabwe, China (still occupying tibet) and decide for 'regime change' solely in Iraq when it isn't a direct threat?

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica I just noticed you wrote 'you'd want them to be back in power' so in your mind if someone opposes the military invasion and occupation in Iraq and afghanistan they are pro-Islamism? Seriously there is no other alternative of perspective that I may have in your mind?

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq It's possible.

Maybe you think Saddam was ready to abdicate, and NOT transfer power to his charming sons, but to end baathist sunni majority rule, and prepare Iraq for a consentual government.

Maybe you think the Taliban would've had a sudden change of heart, and not allow their brothers in Islam to train for Jihad against the "Jews and Crusaders" and would've transferred power to liberal democrats who would extend human rights to the half of our species they oppressed so severly.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica The straw man approach. Seems your contect to assign absurd viewpoint to me that I never stated or implied, and then argue against them. Ever considered that you can be pro-human rights and against the US military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Or that some beleive it is arrogant and dangerous to beleive that US military intervention in the middle east can solve the intricate problems. Violence tends to create more problems than it solves, that's why it's usually the last resort

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq I don't love war, but ever since I learned violence, and not flowers, ended the Third Reich, and Japanese imperialism, I've been convinced of its efficacy.

You implied yourself earlier, that it was the U.S. fighting fascists, and islamic fanatics, that made those fascists and fanatics such fascists, and fanatics.

Defending the rights of man will annoy those who want to attack them, and they'll fight and resist you. A real defender of those rights understands and accepts that.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica Man I think you being purposely obtuse, I suggest you read all my previous comments on this video for the context. I don;t know why you neo-cons find it so uncomfortable to treat people as individuals and not presume to know what people are thinking or want (ie. the people of afghanistan and Iraq).

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica Saw your profile, interesting a classical liberal who adovocates an interventionist foreign policy... are you an objectivist by any chance? Every read or watched vids of Ron Paul? He's a classical liberal who can offer you arguments against an interventionist foreign that are in accordance with a libertarian poltical philopshophy... also search 'lewrockwell com' for other libertarian viewpoints. War always lead to the expansion of the state and infringements of civil liberties.

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq Ron Paul has unrealistic views of foreign policy which ignore centuries of historical precedents. I've heard his arguments before. Of course not all classical liberals are isolationists. I'd call myself a neo-conservative if that wasn't synonymous with being the bogeyman nowadays. I used to be a leftist, but I've come to my senses.

It could easily be argued that civil liberties expanded by these wars, unless you think there was more civil liberty under Saddam, and Taliban.

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica more strawman? BTW Iraq isn't the equilvalent of Nazis Germany, if you truly beleive that you've been watching too much Fox News. Contracts have gone to the 'approved' mulitnationals to prop up the faliling system of globaliztion. I hope you stop trusting the sincerity of politicians. Did you know Saddam in 2000 began to price oil in euros from dollars? You know Austrian economics so you understand how devastating that would have been for the US economy?

[Re5Publica]

@LuqmanNaq I'm not a cynic. I believe ill-intent when I see proof of it, I don't assume it. It's a prejudice I've given up that I used to indulge in as a leftist.

It was France and Germany's dealings with Saddam that led them to oppose the war, the switch to euro was not an american cassus belli.

You can't think of any reason why America wouldn't choose to simulatenously attack two of the world's largest nuclear-armed armies, and every other autocracy on Earth?

[LuqmanNaq]

@Re5Publica Did you know that Iran began trading oil in euros in 2007? You know how bad the dollar is doing right, what do you think that abandoning the dollar as a reserve currency for oil would do to the US? Iran has now become the bogeyman. The WMD argument has been debunked, not even the white house uses it for Iraq, but they are using the same trick to get support to attack Iran. You didn't answer why they continue to overlook North Korea, Zimbabwe and China? Why focus on Iraq and Iran?

[Hillsillverr]

Do muslims have a head priest, or leader? How do your preachers, get elected?

Because those leaders in Europe, especially in London, they are not acting very smart about things...

[LuqmanNaq]

What makes you believe the religion is based on politics? Your looking at Islam through the framework of christianity, there is no 'priesthood'. There is no centralized authority. Basically you study with someone who has a teaching lineage going back to the Prophet (SAW). To become a scholar takes 8yrs, or a Mufti (can issue legal rulings) takes approx 30 yrs. What is it that you disagree with about those orgs in Europe? What is your suggestion of a better approach?

[Hillsillverr]

Because of how they live, and how they act. "There is no centralized authority." There is huge problem right there, because they do as they please. And in iran where there is sharia law, you can not go to the courts and find out whats going on because they are totally closed off from the public. How islam works, is they recruit, untill they are the majority, and once they are the majority, the fundamentalists come in and BOOM sharia law!Once sharia law has total power, the people have no voice.

[Hillsillverr]

That is the islamic paradise. The rulers become godly, and if anybody has a problem on how inhumane they rule, they become enemy of Allah, and get killed! Just look at Iran today, where islam is in full power, thats islam for you. Persia had a head start in our civilization, but instead of going forward, they were forced to stay behind, and suffer!

[LuqmanNaq]

'How they live and act?' Which muslim majority countries have you been to? Which scholars/imams have you spoken with? You know there is no such thing as monolithic Islam. When I talk to people who have prejudice against Islam I always encounter people who have difficulty with ambiguities and diversity. They seem to believe that individual Muslim's behaviour, intepretation of Islam, culture, and moral character are identical. When has human nature ever been that easily discernible?

[LuqmanNaq]

Iran? Firstly Iran is a majority Shia country and even then there is dissent amongst it's shia citizens about how the gov is run. I believe (like many muslims, including scholars) that muslim majority countries today are fascist states, ie. Saudi Arabia (commonly believed in the west to be an example of Shariah) is run by a fascist monarchy who happen to be muslims. Seriously where did you get this perspective from, books, media, encounters with muslims, travelling to muslim countries?

[LuqmanNaq]

No centralized authority is a good thing. When religious authority is with one org (ie. look at the history of the catholic church) then corruption/deviation becomes policy rather than an interpretation amongst many that the people can decide to follow or not. I'm surprsed that you don't like that idea because it leads to discoure and diversity, surely that is a part of the democratic model?

[lalamusa1]

There is a centralized authority in Islam, he is known as the khalifah who heads the Islamic state based on quran and sunnah. Unfortunately the islamic state does not exist today, but inshallah it will return very soon. Madinah was the first islamic state ruled by Muhammad peace be upon him using the laws of the quran, this spread throughout the known Islamic world. In 1943 the state was demolished through internal destruction manipulated from the outside namely Britain.

[lalamusa1]

Today the western governments are striving to keep the state from returning. They know they cannot exist if it does, as their ideas are everything islam opposes. It is an obligation on every muslim to work towards the return of the islamic state. Whether it be through propagating it or expelling the enemy from our lands to re establish it. The latter is obligatory in our lands which are being ruled by the system of the dajjal. Inshallah its return is coming very soon.

[LuqmanNaq]

@lalamusa1 There is no central religious insitution/authority in Islam. The Khalifa is the head on an Islamic GOVERNMENT. You sound like an Hizbut Tahrir member? I personally don't buy into the 'everything is the west fault' there are too many ambiguities in this day and age, alot of the muslim majority countries seem to be screwing up themselves as much as the west is helping.

[perfectdonk]

@LuqmanNaq

" I personally don't buy into the 'everything is the west fault' there are too many ambiguities in this day and age, alot of the muslim majority countries seem to be screwing up themselves as much as the west is helping"

Wow, if only the majority of the muslims would be so sensible and honost. Shure their are some christian hypocrites (especially in US), but people would be a lot more tolerant towards moderate muslims if they wouldnt glorify their brothers and blame the west

[ogirv101]

So in the beggining are they saying that the war on terror is actaully against the Islamic ideology? If Islamic ideology is to commit acts of terror, then fine it is a war on Islam, I don't care what principles they are, if they threaten our existance and safety then I'm all up for sending missles and bullets unto that ideology.

[meleszenawi1111]

I mean if this wasen't a war against islam then why doesen't the us try and get rid of there dometsic terrorists or the neo nazis. I mean the large attacks recently have been carried out by muslims but very few and don't represent the minds of all. The real war is against islam as a jew I believe this if it were against terrorism then there would be a whole slew of other people we would be hearing about.

[hmanigat]

The 2nd speaker didn't even tackle the actual topic of the motion!!!

[bifi34]

What a great debate an muslim panel with muslim audience ....

[elipse135]

am for the motion, but they will never win war against islam, many tried before them and failed.

[RepublicOfVietnam]

@elipse135 you're a complete idiot if you think it's a war against Islam, considering Western world used to rule Islamic lands alot more than they do now 100 years ago.

[biggidy1st]

@elipse135 thats not true,mongol armies crushed muslimarmies many times and the allies destroyed the caliphate and divied the entire islamic heart land

[Azamspazam91]

@biggidy1st How is that a defeat of Islam? You can't defeat a way of life lol

[Azamspazam91]

@biggidy1st The Jews on the other hand are the most wealthy group of people in the world. Yet they use all the money for propaganda lies to justify Zionism that will eventually become exposed. Anyone who is an anti-zionist becomes an anti-Semite in their eyes. They live in delusion and have basically lost their way of life. I think they've actually defeated themselves.

The religious Jews are the only ones who are truly jewish and how many of them have any influence?

[biggidy1st]

@Azamspazam91 if u don't think that destroying the armies, deposing the rulers and dividing the lands of the Islamic empire isn't a defeat of Islam your an idiot, also why are u carrying on about Zionism, i coulnt give a fuck about crazy jews any more then u could

[Azamspazam91]

@biggidy1st Umar RA said

"I order you and the soldiers who are with you to be more cautious and afraid of your own crimes and sins than your enemy, as the crimes and sins of the soldiers are more dangerous to them than the enemy.

The Muslims are victorious only because their enemies are disobedient to Allah , and had it not been so, we have no power over them...If we commit crimes and sins as they do, then our enemies will have superiority over us... WE DO NOT OVERPOWER THEM WITH OUR STRENGTH"

[Azamspazam91]

@biggidy1st The only reason Muslims have no power is because we know nothing about our deen. Cursing out the Jews helps noone.

If the West was at war with Islam they wouldn't have freed Libya. If the west decided that they wanted to kill all Muslims in a genocide they could do it easily. They have the firepower to kill us all 10 times over.

Allah is in charge and he has made some of them good in morals and akhlaq. That's why we have human rights and a fairly responsible United nations.

[biggidy1st]

@Azamspazam91 your invisible friend dosent exsist, the reason muslims have no power is becasue they dont care about science, after WW2 the US took all the great minds outa europe and put them work in there own country, thats why the can create the best tech, islam is anti science, it denies evolution and tells muslims that all knowledge is in the qurran, as long as muslims keep looking for answers in the qurran they will never be great

[432cestus80]

I cannot understand the minds of Islamic extremism. Believers of "Qur'an", the teaching of God and Love. You oppose them, you are dead! you question them why they love killing you are dead! you defy them you are dead.! ONE JIHADIST TOLD ME: "We defend Islam where ever we are. Our enemies are the non-believers of Islam. We protect our brother muslims.!" I ASKED HIM: East Turkistan, the land of your brothers was occupied by China, a non-believers, what did you do? Did you help?, he was silent.!!!

[ya7ya666]

lamo @ "ONE JIHADIST TOLD ME" DUH!!! f***k ur self

[432cestus80]

I like you ya7ya666 - your intrusion to my inbox is extremely impolite, but I find your comment very funny and it amused me. What would you like to say? Ha...ha....ha Are you on drugs? I am sorry but look at what you wrote, other viewers will definitely laugh at you.!!! Open your mind booooy. Believe me you are ignorant, ill mannered, mentally deranged, uneducated. Would you like to discuss something? f***k say it.! you mean "fuck"? Have a nice day boooooy.

[432cestus80]

Hey ya7ya666 - you are in deep silence.! why? are illiterate? you don't speak english? I can understand you. Please, don't show your coccaine damaged brain to the public you are embarrassing. You have nothing to say? Please don't show your idiotic mind.! You are stupid when you intrude to other people inbox, then you don't say anything except words that yourself only know. Don't worry I will make it a habit to send you a message everyday of your God forsaken life.!

[432cestus80]

Hello ya7ya666 - your coccaine damaged brain empty? Please I beg you, speak up and stand to what you believe! You intruded to my inbox extremely impolite, with your own language that only you can understand, are you "high" booooy? Don't worry of your english I will understand it. Speak up small booooy! See my comments, then you can have an idea what to write, am I correct? I can sense by your message to me you are uneducated, misguided, misinformed, ignorant, ill mannered, and a fanatic.

[6552211]

trust me mujahideen are few but they are working to the outmost of their strength...what about u are u helping americans and the nato forces...ur sitting and typing...so act and then talk

[432cestus80]

6552211 - Thanks for your reply, though impolite and assertive but I don't mind it. Your baseless accusation, made me believed you hate every human being in this world. You want to tear this world apart. Do you want to discuss something? Meantime, I will just have a little say about your reply. First and foremost, I am not a supporter of anyone or anything much more of any religion. I am from Asia. Before we proceed, let us establish first, you ,not me, had intruded into my inbox.

[432cestus80]

6552211 - you said: "trust me mujahideen are few but they are working to the outmost of their strength..." Why do you need to tear this world apart? Why what is your purpose? You just love to kill innocent civilians? What made you think this is all justifiable in the eyes of "Allah"? Why do you need to kill your "own kind" muslims women and children? What is the point? Make me understand.! Why do you need to kill non-believers of Islam? Atheist? You want to destroy the world? make your day.!

[432cestus80]

Islam is about God and Love, however Islamic extremist just love killing innocent non-beleivers, women and children, and in their enjoyment of killing they now include the same beleivers of Islam, the muslim women and children in Iraq. Suicide bombing here and there. How many children were dead who could have had bright futures? Children were just simply DEAD.!! For Islamic extremist, to them, you don't have the rights to question them, or you end up DEAD.!! Freedom of choice? NONE, NOTHING.!!!