Advocating? Facts do not advocate. Facts illuminate. Facts inform you so that your choices can be based on knowledge rather than dumb intuition. They expose things as they are, which is often starkly contrasted against what your intuition tells you might be. Intuition is dangerous. It evolved to be just good enough to let small groups of people survive on the savannah. It has no place in a society with large groups of people and technology.
Simple common sense logic. I NEVER heard anyone who was screaming about how abortion is wrong offering to take care of the kids who would be born "unwanted" , or to parents without the means to care for them. In 20 years they'd be screaming for mandatory sterilization just like during the very popular eugenics movement of the 1930s... thousands of adults (and children) were sterilized against their will by something like 25 states, and also around the world. Hitler used it as his model.lookitup!
Stephen Pinker takes a look at this hypothesis in his book 'The Better Angels of our Nature' and points out that the numbers don't add up. If abortion was the cause of taking out the number of criminals, the relative proportion of criminals should be larger since the sensible teen would abort her pregnancy while the teen wanting a cute baby wouldn't.
@Mentisia Well, it isn't said that abortion was the sole cause, but that it was a major factor. They had a real nice pie chart that showed other socioeconomic factors that we know to be relevant to crime. In a sense, if this were an experiment, abortion would be the variable.
@lazerbeam134 If easy abortion after 1973 created a more crime-averse generation, the crime decline should have begun with the youngest group and then crept up the age brackets as they got older. The sixteen-year-olds of 1993 should have committed fewer crimes than the sixteen-year-olds of 1983. In fact, the opposite happened. When the first post-Roe generation came of age in the late 1980s and early 1990s, they did not tug the homicide statistics downward; they indulged in an spree of mayhem.
@Mentisia Actually, as the video pointed out, the crime rates DID drop in the 90's and in subsequent generations. But going along with this trend was an increase in news coverage and media sensationalism about the crimes that were committed. Now, if by "spree of mayhem" you are referring to school shootings, those have been few and far between, and it seems that there is a higher instance of them happening again because of media sensationalism.
@Mentisia And how do you figure that they were on a "mayhem spree", because if you believe that is the case, you bought into the media sensationalism. The actual statistics for violence and crime have been very much on the decline. By 26 year olds, by 16 year olds, and by 85 year olds. It isn't as scary as a place as the tv people want you to think it is. Is it a utopia? No. But it is better than it was.
@lazerbeam134 statistics. Homicide statistics are one of the most reliable statistics throughout history since the value judgement as to what a murder is, is fairly clear.
@Mentisia I understand you got this from a book by Stephen Pinker, which you are advertising quite vigorously on here. Now, would it stand to reason that Mr. Pinker would have had a source for his claim that these statistics for a specific set discredit the theory presented in Freakonomics? If so, I should be able to find it on an internet search surely. But I have found nothing except the UCR which shows that there were increases/decreases in homicides. The theory refers to all crimes
@Mentisia 2 issues for me: a) The person arguing against Levitt's theory uses language that indicates he is opposed to the legalization of abortion in a moral/religious sense. b) He has posted links to graphs that I can't actually see, because the url goes to a site that doesn't exist anymore. I am left to conclude that more time should give a better idea of the relationship. As a side note, I am even more convinced of how significant a role drugs and drug policies affect crime.
@lazerbeam134 Pinker doesn't oppose the hypothesis because he thinks there is anything morally wrong with abortion, he just doesn't find a factual basis for it.
@Mentisia When he uses languages like "the unborn" that sounds like the language of anti-abortion people more than someone debating the factual basis of a claim about abortion itself.
@Mentisia I would also like to add that most rising crime trends that are out there can be attributed to the Drug War and US drug policy in general. More arrests are made for possession of marijuana than for violent crimes.
@Mentisia You said it was, then you said it wasn't. My point here was to illustrate that any increased criminal activity is drug related, and changes in drug policies would make for much needed changes. You can't deny that we have prisons overflowing with non-violent offenders, due to US drug laws, in particular the prohibition of marijuana use.
Advocating? Facts do not advocate. Facts illuminate. Facts inform you so that your choices can be based on knowledge rather than dumb intuition. They expose things as they are, which is often starkly contrasted against what your intuition tells you might be. Intuition is dangerous. It evolved to be just good enough to let small groups of people survive on the savannah. It has no place in a society with large groups of people and technology.
otakucode 20 hours ago
it could also be contreception as well, not just abortion.
grnbbllntrck 4 days ago 2
Simple common sense logic. I NEVER heard anyone who was screaming about how abortion is wrong offering to take care of the kids who would be born "unwanted" , or to parents without the means to care for them. In 20 years they'd be screaming for mandatory sterilization just like during the very popular eugenics movement of the 1930s... thousands of adults (and children) were sterilized against their will by something like 25 states, and also around the world. Hitler used it as his model.lookitup!
kahtuh 1 week ago
We need the whole video
buffygirl2001 1 week ago
Santorum needs to watch this and learn.
MrMooseMovies 2 weeks ago 5
Stephen Pinker takes a look at this hypothesis in his book 'The Better Angels of our Nature' and points out that the numbers don't add up. If abortion was the cause of taking out the number of criminals, the relative proportion of criminals should be larger since the sensible teen would abort her pregnancy while the teen wanting a cute baby wouldn't.
Mentisia 3 weeks ago
@Mentisia Well, it isn't said that abortion was the sole cause, but that it was a major factor. They had a real nice pie chart that showed other socioeconomic factors that we know to be relevant to crime. In a sense, if this were an experiment, abortion would be the variable.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 If easy abortion after 1973 created a more crime-averse generation, the crime decline should have begun with the youngest group and then crept up the age brackets as they got older. The sixteen-year-olds of 1993 should have committed fewer crimes than the sixteen-year-olds of 1983. In fact, the opposite happened. When the first post-Roe generation came of age in the late 1980s and early 1990s, they did not tug the homicide statistics downward; they indulged in an spree of mayhem.
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia Actually, as the video pointed out, the crime rates DID drop in the 90's and in subsequent generations. But going along with this trend was an increase in news coverage and media sensationalism about the crimes that were committed. Now, if by "spree of mayhem" you are referring to school shootings, those have been few and far between, and it seems that there is a higher instance of them happening again because of media sensationalism.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 not just crime, crime by 16 year olds.
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia And how do you figure that they were on a "mayhem spree", because if you believe that is the case, you bought into the media sensationalism. The actual statistics for violence and crime have been very much on the decline. By 26 year olds, by 16 year olds, and by 85 year olds. It isn't as scary as a place as the tv people want you to think it is. Is it a utopia? No. But it is better than it was.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 statistics. Homicide statistics are one of the most reliable statistics throughout history since the value judgement as to what a murder is, is fairly clear.
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia And there were statistical declines in homicide in the 90's.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 not for 16 year olds compared to the 16 year olds pre roe v. wade
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia I understand you got this from a book by Stephen Pinker, which you are advertising quite vigorously on here. Now, would it stand to reason that Mr. Pinker would have had a source for his claim that these statistics for a specific set discredit the theory presented in Freakonomics? If so, I should be able to find it on an internet search surely. But I have found nothing except the UCR which shows that there were increases/decreases in homicides. The theory refers to all crimes
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 "More at-risk children following Roe v. Wade": Lott & Whitley, 2007; Zimring, 2007 is the research he is quoting.
Also, look on Slate.com for "Does Abortion Prevent Crime?"
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia 2 issues for me: a) The person arguing against Levitt's theory uses language that indicates he is opposed to the legalization of abortion in a moral/religious sense. b) He has posted links to graphs that I can't actually see, because the url goes to a site that doesn't exist anymore. I am left to conclude that more time should give a better idea of the relationship. As a side note, I am even more convinced of how significant a role drugs and drug policies affect crime.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 Pinker doesn't oppose the hypothesis because he thinks there is anything morally wrong with abortion, he just doesn't find a factual basis for it.
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia When he uses languages like "the unborn" that sounds like the language of anti-abortion people more than someone debating the factual basis of a claim about abortion itself.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 it also is a shorthand for 'people that would otherwise have been born'
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia I would also like to add that most rising crime trends that are out there can be attributed to the Drug War and US drug policy in general. More arrests are made for possession of marijuana than for violent crimes.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
@lazerbeam134 crime isn't on the rise, it has been falling for centuries. read Stephen Pinkers book, it is a good read.
Mentisia 2 weeks ago
@Mentisia You said it was, then you said it wasn't. My point here was to illustrate that any increased criminal activity is drug related, and changes in drug policies would make for much needed changes. You can't deny that we have prisons overflowing with non-violent offenders, due to US drug laws, in particular the prohibition of marijuana use.
lazerbeam134 2 weeks ago
2:49 Y'know... the guy on the left looks a bit like me. A few days no shaving and wearing my hat like that... hm.
Great video, I just wish more people could see it.
TonyEvans96 3 weeks ago
Thank you for the post. First time I've seen such a well-done representation of the ideas from the book.
PLOttawa 1 month ago