Who was the reporter that reported that TWA 800 was shot down in the early days of the internet? That was a lesson about getting "news" from internet sources that Dobbs should have learned. He was once respected. Sadly, he will be remembered for the way his career ended. He became a conspiracy freak and a crank, an embarrassment to CNN.
Everybody needs to look up Obama ccx on the web. It will tell you all you need to know, why he is pushing green energy so hard. Our government is corrupt and this administration is no different. We are no longer citizens of this country, we are just consumers to them. They are all getting fat on our ability to keep paying taxes, and inflated utility bills. We need to quit bickering with each other, and take note of what the corporations are doing to us. Capitalist socialism is the NWO in the US
I miss Lou Dobbs. I refuse to watch CNN now because he was the ONLY one who brought TRUTH and BALANCE to the very Liberal BIASED CNN. Its too bad that Lou's pursuit of the TRUTH got him fired.
Anything to deflect the facts, and let's face it, they've tried over & over to talk around it. Why is Obama waiting? If the GOV. can plant thermite all over the WTC, why not forge a birth certificate & plant fake records in some hospital & claim he couldn't find his BC till now, it was the movers fault when they set up housekeeping at the WH. Unfortunately a lot of sheeple would believe it....
This is quite a shock to many Mexican immigrants who have learned to dislike Dobbs because of his constant hate-mongering against what he calls criminal illegal aliens. He recently insinuated that America has the capability of rounding up all undocumented Mexicans and deporting them. Dobbs has become the "hero" of anti-Mexican xenophobes around the country. The IRONY of the LIFE is her WIFE is a MEXICAN woman with two daugthers Mexican-American.
the strangest thing I noticed that the proponents of pro-amnesty that are Mexican have parents living in the states illegally. Or what is known as anchor babies
Is that the only card you have left in your deck of cards? RACE
Why does Obama have 39 social security numbers? The one he mainly uses is from CT and starts with 042. Why doesn't he have a social security number from HI?
Good luck Mediamatters with your little thought control campaign. In the end people are going to believe what they believe. haha You are a walking contradiction.
Media Matters has done a great job of a political spin that has led to a hate toewards conservative america. You leftists, you have been decieved by your own, and you are in this hate just as the MEDIA MATTERS are.
The truth is the Hillary campaign were the ones who started this probe. Why is a call for facts a "problem". Is the left that desperate now that they have resorted to illogical blind support?
Media matters is progressive so of course they don't like him, as they hate Fox. Get over yourself MM- we are allowed to have our own opinion, and we don't have to agree with you.
Its just the conspiracy theories floating around. They're all nuts. (Bush did 911, Obama was born in Kenya) I want to do everything I can to not find common ground with these people.
With respect to 9/11 people in Afhanistan were bragging about 9/11. With respect to the birth certificate scandal, people in Kenya are bragging that Obama was born in Kenya. See the connection. And ask yourself the question does his name reflect Kenya or the US. names. Why would his relatives swear that he was born in Kenya.
All sides of the issue are out there. Believe what you will. I just think Obama has done a marvelous job making his most vocal opponents look like a bunch of nut cases. Yes, to 80% of people in this country "birthers" look like nut cases.
Even if he was born in Kenya, should spending the first 2 days of your life there disqualify you from being president?
To answer your last question raunchbear, yes that is the law. It seems like Obama and his supporters have a hard time with the law; Immigration law, Bill of Rights, anti corruption laws and perjery laws. And if you really think we look like nut cases then the propgandist have done a good job. Get on youtube and search (Obama to much Pie) (Obama 58 states) (Obama 3000 died). I suspect this is the tip of the ice berg. Only what we have seen lately.
Propagandists don't have to do a thing. Watching people disrupting meetings by shouting conspiracy theories does it for me. Like Code Pink and the Tea Party people.
Its funny how people on the far left or far right feel so connected to one while saying the other's are nuts. The truth is, crazy people can always spot other crazies but can't see it for themselves.
yesas you then dont come under natural born plus his father was a british subject which under their law Obama is british
she proberly wanted Obama tto be born a kenyan being a radical but her parants proberly warned her about the benifits to be american so they registed his birth as it was possible to do it as a live birth. Thats why the original cant be seen because it will reveal his kenyan birth.
Does anyone know when he changed his name to Barack h Obama from barry soetoro
What the hell does race have to do withhim producing a birth certificate? I will try that at the DMV and social security office next time. Racist bastards. I wonder if I can get into the miss black USA pageant without a birth certificate saying I am American and Female. How did this shit get to be about race, give it a break. Racist bastards who say this about people with legitimate questions. Go Dobbs
Bullshit....Many White people voted for Obama...WHY? Because he wasn't full Black with a White mama. Obama put both White and Black people at ease...even Hispanics. HAHA...Black people got gypped on a REAL Black President. If Tiger Woods won...Black people would still call him the first Black Pres...even though he's Asian too....Black doesn't supercede who Obama is.Black is just half of who Obama is.
Fuck this horrible propaganda. You evil bastards call everyone racist. You call the good guys racist to try and silence them. Stop the new world order.
The argument that this is a racially charged accusation rests on the premise that if Obama were white, no one be making any accusations about his nationality.
As far as Obama's health care disaster, an NBC poll showed that Republicans have a 21% approval rating on health care. It seems health care is actually everyone's disaster. Go ahead and call NBC out as biased if you want, but I'm sure there are other polls that say the same thing.
Nice try, lefty. But the truth is -------Foxnews is #1 because people choose to watch it -- pretty hard to understand, eh? I wswear the bottom-feeder libs on this message board is overwhelming. ********* Yep, MSNBC is in the tank! * * * God Bless You, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Mark Levin, Michael Savage, etc... for your fine ability to expose the truth (about the evil LEFT) to the American people. Exposing the far LEFT energizes the silent majority ..and we are not going away!
Did I miss soemthing? I didn't hear anything Racialy charged except for the person being told to say that Dobbs questions is about race. I think I heard him ask abotu the birth certificate. And heard millions asking the same thing. This must be from the SPLC web site. They are racist against the white race. They have gobbs of articles on white's activities but nothing updated or easy to find about the blacks like Farrahkan,new black panther party. black thology movement
I don't think that's true. Chester A. Arthur (1829–1886), 21st president of the United States, was rumored to have been born in Canada. This was never demonstrated by his Democratic opponents, although Arthur Hinman, the attorney in charge of an investigation, raised the objection during his vice-presidential campaign and after the end of his Presidency.
His father was an Irish-born British Subject (sound familiar?) & he was born almost on the Vermont Canadian border.
Chester A. Arthur (1829–1886), 21st president of the United States, was rumored to have been born in Canada. This was never demonstrated by his Democratic opponents, although Arthur Hinman, the attorney in charge of an investigation, raised the objection during his vice-presidential campaign and after the end of his Presidency.
His father was a British Subject (sound familiar?) & he was born almost on the Vermont Canadian border.
@christianpatriot125 Look this is crazy if he truly was a canadian citizen then he should have not been allowed to be president, same case here, except this is not true it has been proved with out doubt. But it does not matter how much evidence you show these people they are only going to see and hear what they want to.
His granny says he was born in Kenya. His school records say he was an Indonesian citizen.
The COLB isn't a birth certificate. There is no statement by an attending Dr. He sealed all records which might end debate.
Personally I think dual citizenship is a red-herring. Most early presidents were dual citizens as King George never really gave up his claim. But I don't accept that McCain is natural born as the legislation applying to his circumstance passed after his birth.
@christianpatriot125 Listen he has proven and shown an overwhelming amount of evidence, at this point no matter how much physical proof he comes up with you are still going to believe hes not a citizen, and to be completly honest if he hasnt shown enough evidence that hes a citizen than i dont know how any one would.
I don't know whether he's a US citizen or not, and neither do you!
The published evidence points to him not being a citizen:
His grandmother's evidence, his Indonesian citizenship, his presence in Pakistan at a time US citizens were refused entry, etc. etc.
If he were to release his records we would know one way or the other. The fact that he refuses to end the debate could be regarded as circumstantial evidence that he is a fraud.
@christianpatriot125 Look, like i said your not going to believe hes an american citizen no matter what, and speak for your self when you say i dont know!
How can you KNOW when you haven't seen any conclusive evidence. If you have what is it?
The only evidence in the public domain, that I am aware of, is not conclusive, although it may have persuaded you to accept one side of the argument.
I have presented facts which point to his not being a citizen. You have presented no counter argument, let alone one which might trump his granny's eye-witness testimony or his Indonesian citizenship.
@christianpatriot125 Look i have seen enough evidence im not here to say you are wrong or right its your belief, this may seem crazy to you but remember the whole thing is really crazy.
@christianpatriot125 ... Seriously? Did anyone ask for Bush's birth certificate? Did anyone ask for Clinton's birth certificate? How about Reagan's? Carter's? No? What do all those Presidents have in common that is different from Obama? Hmmm...
@christianpatriot125 ... You really believe that? You think they were all open and honest, but Obama is the one deceiving us? Are you a conspiracy theorist? Because, if so, I won't waste my time.
@christianpatriot125 ... I don't know if they hid any of their records. I DO know that no one ever made a fuss over any of those Presidents' birth certificates. Most people couldn't tell you where any of them were born, but they'll tell you they're 100% confident they were born in the United States. Why? Because they LOOK American. Then, an African-American is elected to the Presidency, and suddenly, it's a legitimate question? LOL, give me a break. It's racism...pure and simple.
Does John McCain look American? There would have been just as much fuss had he won the election as there has been over Obama because John McCain is definitely not a Natural Born Citizen, regardless of Congressional claims.
The law giving Natural Born Status to those born in his circumstances was passed after his birth. Therefore he was not a Natural Born Citizen at the time of his birth.
The attention is on Obama because he's in office, rather than the Panamanian McCain.
@christianpatriot125 ... LOL, of course, John McCain looks American. He's an old, white man who, a lot of people believe, was born within the borders of the United States. That's why the "Birthers" never mentioned McCain during the 2008 campaign. There was no controversy there.
As far as I'm concerned McCain doesn't look any more American than does Obama.
Are you some sort of WASP who thinks that only White Anglo-Saxon Protestants can be regarded as REALLY American?
There was enough controversy about McCain's Panamanian birth for him to have seek & get a Congressional declaration that he was a Natural Born US citizen. He was only one of many candidates at the time, so perhaps you didn't notice.
@christianpatriot125 ... It's admirable that you see McCain and Obama as being equally "American-looking," but most people don't. Seventy percent of Americans are white. With that in mind, most people would consider McCain to be more "American-looking" than Obama.
Agreed. Media Matters is A FASCIST NAZI GROUP that is attempting to silence anyone who speaks out against the agenda IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE LOU DOBBS AND GLENN BECK ARE EXPOSING THE NWO AND GLOBALIST AGENDA, THEY ARE STANDING UP AND WARNING PEOPLE OF GROWING THREATS FROM GOV'T.....
GUESS WHO FOUNDED AND FUNDS MEDIA MATTERS... GEORGE SOROS MEMBER? OF THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, BUILDERBERG GROUP, AND INTERNATIONAL FINANCIER
mac EXACTUALLY this crap comes back to BLACK IDEOLOGY that seeks to destroy the country by any means possibly. To Turn it upside down and not stop. It's in Farrahakans words, and James H Cones also. Blacks who are anti american are wreaking havoic in the USA and inviting the Islamic extremist in 4 dinner. Chk out the Hilton Hotel N Chicargo it just hosted islamic Radials talk abt Terror n well it is Farrahkans home town and well yeah Obama isn't an American by any stretch of the imgaination
MediaMatters, why dont you ask Obama for that. Why you got a problem with Lou Dobbs who doesnt represent your silly ideas? Lou Dobbs is the real host coming from CNN all else are sheeple. He speaks the hidden secrecy of the government and their conspirartors! We all know Obama is a frontman. That is why he was elected, America did not chose Obama, the banklords did. MediaMatters is a coward of same thing from all Rocekefeller's organizations to manipulate the truth? Looks like to me! LOL MediaM
Lou Dobbs is as bad as Bill O'Rielly , he has no idea of how to debate, he just wants to present his side and then yell down any attempt to present an opposing view, seems to be a constant with right wing extremists.
Instead of using empty fear mongering attack strategies, focus on the evidence whether or not Obama was born in the U.S. Show the evidence, and stop messing with people's emotions.
How is questioning Obama's place of birth racist?
'Take action'? what kind of action?, restricting one's freedom of speech?... oh sure, that's not tyrannical or authoritarian at all...
I LOVE LOU DOBBS! CNN is beneath him. CNN has become a tabloid tool for the elites to keep the people ignorant and uninformed. Congratulations sheeple.
I'd be delighted to send you links but they won't post here for some reason. However the Hawaiian Doh issues the short form since the long forms have trouble printing on their computers when diacritical marks are encountered. You can petition the court for the original and receive it.
Media Matters cloaks their arguments in a veil of posh presentation. They use intentionally equivocal and ambiguous terms and proceed to project a premise with a sense of deliberation and moderation. When cornered in an argument they resort to the classic distraction: "G.W. Bush" Now, Bush was a schmuck. I didn't vote for him or Juan McCain. But Democrats are just as sleazy and just as power-mad. Dems like Kerry and Clinton, among others, voted for the Iraq War Resolution and the TARP.
The fact that Media Matters has to start a hate campaign against a reporter is indicative of the sad state of American politics and the subjugation of the free press. Rather than call for truth, they are obstructing justice. A lot of misinformation in these comments. In Hawaii there is a difference between a certificate and a certification. You can indeed obtain your long form. Ostensibly the question boils down to whether Obama told the truth or not. Very simple solution. Release the document.
Yeah! If Media Matters believes so strongly that this is a non-issue, then why don't they request a discussion with Dobbs to state their case and then let the viewers decide. If MM presents a convincing argument and Dobbs still wants to press the issue long afterward (which would be his right to do), then the viewers will determine his success by either watching it further or by changing the channel. If ratings drop because people are sick of the issue then Dobbs will stop talking about it.
Em........ No!!!! This is about a birth certificate not being produced. Its that simple. If he was born in America, he'd have no problem producing the original. Instead he decides to spend millions to make sure that it DOESN'T come out.
Now doesn't that alone have bells ringing in your head? Every candidate has to provide it. Yet Mr "Savour" Obama doesn't have to? Maybe he was made in a Lab. Maybe he really is Jesus "The Return"!!!!!
He's spent millions covering it up? Got a source on that?
Oh, and if all Presidents HAD to do it, he would've had to early on. Either he showed it to those who needed to see it, or you're lying.
But yeah, clearly the state of Hawaii is conspiring, his mom made them put his name in the paper over 40 years ago because she knew he'd be president, and everyone has asked for every other Presidents BC relentlessly, right?
He would have only had to if requested to by the vetting committee. McCain was requested to because he was born on an army base. Obama was not requested to.
Maybe because the committee was lead by Democrats.
My sister was born in California about 60 years ago. Her birth county's "short-form" BC has all the data as the original "long-form", including parent names/address/job, doctor info, hospital info, etc. She has multiple copies of both forms
Less than a month ago I talked with the county registrar's office in detail and it confirmed it. We also order BC copies from the counties, not the state
"I don't know what state you are in but in most states you can ONLY order the short-form BC."-x78x
I didn't use my "long" v. "short" forms as an example, as I was born on a military base and that could be considered atypical...although the data fields provided in my "long" and "short" forms are the same.
I suggest the real issue is that some states and/or counties reduce the data content on the "digital" copy of the BC while other states/counties do not. Hence some "short" forms are "shorter" than others.
I don't believe state governments will EVER get rid of long-form BCs. If anything they will start adding more information (such as DNA coding). LFs will continue to be stored in places like Iron Mountain
However for day-to-day cost savings states will continue using digital SF BCs to meet MOST legal needs. Legally acceptable proof of birth location isn't the only legal function provided to society by an LF BC
Politicians generally do things only when convenient or personally profitable. For many it's "Do as I say not as I do". They are some of most self-serving and arrogant people I know
I'm in favor of term limits: one can only serve TOTAL of 8 yrs in either House AND Senate during lifetime and DON'T get lifetime full salary after retire. Salaries approved by People
"Where is the separation of federal and state powers the Republicans talk so much about? Or is that only when it's convenient?"-x78x
Obama is what happens when human garbage on welfare, excited and brainwashed by the the RICH elites within pop-culture and within the state-run media, VOTE. The voters THINK they are GETTING something for themselves. The rich elites GET something for themselves. The middle-class gets RAPED. And its all done democratically (supposedly).
Not necessarily. If need proof only LF BC provides (e.g. acceptable proof of parent ID, parent residency, etc) it requires the LF BC. Indeed, with ID theft someone could even claim the need in some bizarre case to compare biometrics (e..g footprint) some LF BCs contain...to prove the BC is in fact your BC
Given enough cause, SCOTUS could even initiate action claiming "Original Jurisdiction". No SF "fake" proof needed
"No doubt they would first have to prove the short-form BC is fake."-x78x
At this point I think the Birthers need to prove he isn't NBC. But they need the documents to do so
My mom's official BC has her footprint
Members of US and other governments are proposing including DNA data on the BC, and at least one proposal included an encapsulated DNA sample
Parent residency proof can be required for other reasons
"Obama only needs to prove he is a natural born citizen, not his parents home address..."BC" with feet is not a birth certificate. It's a 'souvenir'"-x78x
I think you'll find it's not that simple. Cases often go to court where people claim they COULD be adversely affected. A germane case would be the military guy that had a court date who claimed he MIGHT be harmed "more" by US enemies if captured if Obama wasn't legitimate. His case was dropped by the court ONLY when his orders to the Middle East were rescinded
"The main problem is to ever get the case heard in court you must have "standing", basically you have been directly harmed."-x78x
That's him. On video clip I saw he said he was recalled to active duty by military but he didn't want to be ordered into combat zone unless Obama proved he was legally qualified to be President (due to possible adverse consequences if captured)
Arrrgh! Stuff like this always depends who we hear it from and how they spin it.
"If I'm not mistaken isn't that the Stefan F. Cook case with Orly Taitz? Cook volunteered to serve for one year in Afghanistan...concocted the whole scenario...."-x78x
Obama's first executive order as President was Executive Order 13489. It sealed his birth records and college transcripts, among other items. This man makes Richard Nixon look like a cupcake. Actually, Tricky Dick was ten times the president that Obama could ever hope to be. Men like Richard Nixon, Eisenhower, JFK (Obama is no JFK; in fact JFK would be disgusted in how cheap and regressive his party has become) were men of excellence. Obama and Bush were schmucks. Media Matters is a tool.
Thank you, x78x, for saying exactly what the Right-Wing nuts would say.
"Oh well its fake"
"Oh, he took his time because he had to get it made"
Remember kids, conspiracy theories are always true. Obama is a communist, he appoints Marxists, Zionists, Socialists, and fellow Communists. He's racist, trying to run the country in the ground ASAP, and is out to make the Right-Wing look like fools. It's one giant conspiracy, say goodbye to your rights in the next 8 years!
No, Jews are leaving obama in droves because of his anti-Israel stance. They also see what he really is , a racist, and the fair-minded Jews will not put up with that.
Aw, someone's been eating up everything John Hagee's said, huh?
We're not going to ally with every single damn country that goes to war. If anything, Isreal committed more crimes than it's opposition.
And lol@Obama being a racist. Yes, the leader of a largely white nation with a white grandmother is racist against everyone but blacks and hispanics, right? Makes perfect sense.
Sure is in the Constitution , but does it really matter? Does it makes Obama less or more capable as president whether he was born in Kenya or Hawaii?
Why is this a problem? All obama has to do is produce the certificate, or does his elite snobbish attitude towards us voters preclude him from doing that??
Well, a Hawaiian senator feels the same as you. William Espero introduced legislation that would force the Department of Public Health of Hawaii to release the long form birth certificate.
By the way, before anyone calls "right wing nut" on this guy, he is a democrat senator.
There are more democrat birthers than there are republican birthers (mostly because republicans are spineless though).
OB not showing us his birth certificate just multiplies the lies that spews out of his mouth. We need to call back our US army from Afghanistan to protect us old people from his union and acorn army he's recruited and created to intimidate us citizens. This man is not acting like an American, he's acting like an illegal alien. His heart and mind and birth certificate are UN, USSR, not US.
"you guys" = Scared White Men...hahahahhaahhahahaahahahhahahaahhahahahahahaahha!!!! Laughing Stock of any credible News Source...especially Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert...love it!!!
Why would Obama show his birth certificate after this circus? He can avoid a lot of genuine criticism so long as these Nirthers keep at it. Tin Foil Alert!
Taking one more "Obama conspiracy not possible" counter-argument off the table
Re: those who say "An Obama conspiracy couldn't or wouldn't have gone back to 1961 newspaper birth announcements"
Both "sides" are missing a key point. It doesn't take a conspiracy to have a birth notice posted in Hawaii newspaper
All it takes is a proud dad who wants his son's birth announced in the state the family currently resides REGARDLESS of where the son may have been actually born (cont'd)
If I were a proud new traveling out-of-country dad I certainly would have phoned or telegraphed (given 1961) notice of my son's birth to local papers for friends/family to see, AND to have a family record of the event
Sending notices to numerous newspapers (both local and other states) is something MANY families do for both birth and death announcements
This removes relevance of "An Obama conspiracy couldn't have gone back to 1961 newspaper-" newspaper birth listings issue (cont'd)
The ONLY way the 1961 newspaper birth notices counter-argument would be meaningful in this entire "is it or isn't it a conspiracy?" issue, is if it could be PROVEN that the notices were sent from a Hawaii hospital, and not the result of a notice submitted by Obama's dad or family, OR it could be PROVEN that the newspapers received phone calls, telegraphs, letters, or visits from Obama's dad or another family member (cont'd)
Unfortunately after almost 50 years it's highly unlikely any tracking records exist (hospital bills, phone company long-distance logs/bills, newspaper logs, telegraph logs, etc) that could prove one or the other...although I assume people have been checking for these obvious traces
I'm not saying a conspiracy did or did not occur. All I'm saying is posting the notices didn't REQUIRE conspiracy
The mere existence of the 1961 newspaper notices doesn't prove anything one way or the other
Birth/death notices have been also submitted by families to US newspapers for as long as I can remember. There was no requirement they come from an "official" source
Perhaps those 2 newspapers had a special rule at that time, but once again that's one of those bits of evidence that is unlikely to remain 100% provable
There are always exceptions: home births, mid-wife births, native births (esp in early Hawaii), and...foreign births..., etc
I agree it looks good. But there are often procs to handle exceptions in any Health Department(HD) registration system. E.G. Obama's dad could have formally registered birth with HD via foreign hospital or US embassy. NOT saying he did just that such is possible. It would show up in HD section. It might or might not show a given birth was foreign
"Obama's was in the Health Department section. This information comes from the Hawaii Health Department which should know their own procedures."-x78x
I didn't address his BC, but I could counter with fact I was born on military base. My "long-form" BC shows name of military base as my birthplace. My latest "short-form" BC shows DIFFERENT name of surrounding town as my birthplace-base closed
My only point here being key differences can exist in "long" v. "short" BC's
"His short-form birth certificate show Honolulu as his birth place..
Even so this is all irrelevant. The law allowing...didn't exist until 20 years AFTER Obama was born"-x78x
I realize it's not exact same situation but it does show LForm v SForm exceptions exist
For example it's POSSIBLE when the BC's were "digitized" a key entry operator w/ minimal training or just plain tired accidentally entered city of "Residence" as the city of "Birth". In my BC, the city of birth "rectangle" is EXACTLY above the city of residence "rectangle". A mistake would be all too easy
Obama Sr's residence was Honolulu
Key-entry mistakes are historically endemic to manual digitizing
I doubt Hawaii's Health Department, especially back in 1961, would NOT be interested in officially recording births of Hawaii residents that occurred at homes, native villages, out-of-state, etc
Exceptions can also become critical. If there is even one known exception, then one can't claim with certainty that an arbitrary birth wouldn't be registered by the HD and then sent to the newspapers HD sections
It would be of value to discover Hawaii's HD 1961 registration procs, exceptions, and data
"Statements" (items 3-7) are not proof. Just because someone, no matter who it is, says something does not make it true. "Statements" can at best be called corroborative testimony. Also, they weren't even under binding oath
re: "2. Birth announcements" As I've previously explained (I think fairly well) their mere existence doesn't prove things one way OR the other. They COULD have been generated from other totally legitimate sources for reasons totally unrelated to citizenship
That's why I didn't say they were proof. I said they were evidence.
Really, the most telling part of your two posts is you had nothing to add to the "Evidence Obama was born anywhere other than Honolulu" list.
You need more than what is possible and what could happen to overcome all the evidence.
Saying that it's possible the moon landings were fake does not mean that the moon landings were faked, nor does it even make it likely the moon landings were faked.
I thought you'd come back with that "evidence" v. "proof" argument.
The problem is the manner in which you provided the information I sincerely believe was an attempt to discuss it as proof. Something too many people are doing. They confuse "evidence" with "proof" and/or with "fact".
Claims are not even "evidence" in the manner you presented. They are simply statements made by people.
There are very strict rules for considering statements, hearsay, documents, images, etc. as "evidence".
It's not my fault if people don't understand the difference between evidence and proof. And of course the statements aren't court admissible - there's never been testimony or hearings on this. However, the COLB is prima facie evidence in any court.
Is it possible there was an elaborate plan to get fake birth announcements planted? Yes. Is it reasonable to believe that that happened, given the totality of the circumstances? No.
After that we'll have Orly trying to exhume the corpse of Obama Sr. and give him a post-mortem retroactive American citizenship, sort of like the Mormons baptizing people who have been dead for years. Ironically, the Mormons recently did baptize Obama Sr.
I didn't even take a side or try to "add to evidence...other than Hawaii"!
I'm just a scientist trying to get people, regardless of "side" think objectively and understand the difference between claims, "evidence", etc. and proof, and to understand there can be many different ways to get the same thing done (E.G. birth announcements)
re: "Really, the most telling part of your two posts is you had nothing to add to the "Evidence Obama was born anywhere other than Honolulu" list."-qwertyman129
Who was the reporter that reported that TWA 800 was shot down in the early days of the internet? That was a lesson about getting "news" from internet sources that Dobbs should have learned. He was once respected. Sadly, he will be remembered for the way his career ended. He became a conspiracy freak and a crank, an embarrassment to CNN.
bruceduece1 3 months ago
The media is liberal bias
Fox news is media
Fox news is liberal bias.
Thorpe741 7 months ago
Lou was the only thing good about CNN.
dinobot02 8 months ago
Everybody needs to look up Obama ccx on the web. It will tell you all you need to know, why he is pushing green energy so hard. Our government is corrupt and this administration is no different. We are no longer citizens of this country, we are just consumers to them. They are all getting fat on our ability to keep paying taxes, and inflated utility bills. We need to quit bickering with each other, and take note of what the corporations are doing to us. Capitalist socialism is the NWO in the US
jlwarner7 9 months ago
I miss Lou Dobbs. I refuse to watch CNN now because he was the ONLY one who brought TRUTH and BALANCE to the very Liberal BIASED CNN. Its too bad that Lou's pursuit of the TRUTH got him fired.
3dartistguy 1 year ago
Anything to deflect the facts, and let's face it, they've tried over & over to talk around it. Why is Obama waiting? If the GOV. can plant thermite all over the WTC, why not forge a birth certificate & plant fake records in some hospital & claim he couldn't find his BC till now, it was the movers fault when they set up housekeeping at the WH. Unfortunately a lot of sheeple would believe it....
antekatetaketna 1 year ago
how is this racist? liberals are always pulling the race card out their ass
mikewadesmith99 1 year ago
Lou Dobbs is the last of a dying breed of REAL journalists
breetown123 1 year ago
I'm glad they dumped this racist, ignorant P.O.S.
sparkle11231 1 year ago
This is quite a shock to many Mexican immigrants who have learned to dislike Dobbs because of his constant hate-mongering against what he calls criminal illegal aliens. He recently insinuated that America has the capability of rounding up all undocumented Mexicans and deporting them. Dobbs has become the "hero" of anti-Mexican xenophobes around the country. The IRONY of the LIFE is her WIFE is a MEXICAN woman with two daugthers Mexican-American.
AGAPITOMELORROSAS 1 year ago
the strangest thing I noticed that the proponents of pro-amnesty that are Mexican have parents living in the states illegally. Or what is known as anchor babies
TheChoujinVirus 1 year ago
Is that the only card you have left in your deck of cards? RACE
Why does Obama have 39 social security numbers? The one he mainly uses is from CT and starts with 042. Why doesn't he have a social security number from HI?
Think about it!
shequestor1 2 years ago
Good luck Mediamatters with your little thought control campaign. In the end people are going to believe what they believe. haha You are a walking contradiction.
TrippingTheTube 2 years ago 2
Media Matters has done a great job of a political spin that has led to a hate toewards conservative america. You leftists, you have been decieved by your own, and you are in this hate just as the MEDIA MATTERS are.
macdogq 2 years ago
The truth is the Hillary campaign were the ones who started this probe. Why is a call for facts a "problem". Is the left that desperate now that they have resorted to illogical blind support?
PatriotMan09 2 years ago
Why don't you Leftists just SHOW his birth certificate?
And his college records?
And his passport?
So on and on and on?
Don't feel like dirty scum defending a man that hides so much from the American people?
ShaytanBozorg 2 years ago 2
Lou rocks!!!
lukzbro777 2 years ago 3
Media matters sucks! Lou Dobbs is cool.
Media matters is progressive so of course they don't like him, as they hate Fox. Get over yourself MM- we are allowed to have our own opinion, and we don't have to agree with you.
deborahmouser 2 years ago 2
Lou Dobbs for the win!
Obama birth certificate FAIL!
singledad0f3 2 years ago 4
You communists scream about first admendment rights. Then you get the power and its the first right you want to take away!
orion90ryan 2 years ago
Chingados, cual es el pedo con este wey?
Kilivor 2 years ago
I think I'm gonna vote for Obama next time. Just because I hate these racist bastards.
raunchbear 2 years ago
Raunchbear you said you hate racist, So why do you want to vote for Obama? He is the racist!
PatriotMan09 2 years ago
Its just the conspiracy theories floating around. They're all nuts. (Bush did 911, Obama was born in Kenya) I want to do everything I can to not find common ground with these people.
raunchbear 2 years ago
With respect to 9/11 people in Afhanistan were bragging about 9/11. With respect to the birth certificate scandal, people in Kenya are bragging that Obama was born in Kenya. See the connection. And ask yourself the question does his name reflect Kenya or the US. names. Why would his relatives swear that he was born in Kenya.
PatriotMan09 2 years ago
All sides of the issue are out there. Believe what you will. I just think Obama has done a marvelous job making his most vocal opponents look like a bunch of nut cases. Yes, to 80% of people in this country "birthers" look like nut cases.
Even if he was born in Kenya, should spending the first 2 days of your life there disqualify you from being president?
raunchbear 2 years ago
To answer your last question raunchbear, yes that is the law. It seems like Obama and his supporters have a hard time with the law; Immigration law, Bill of Rights, anti corruption laws and perjery laws. And if you really think we look like nut cases then the propgandist have done a good job. Get on youtube and search (Obama to much Pie) (Obama 58 states) (Obama 3000 died). I suspect this is the tip of the ice berg. Only what we have seen lately.
PatriotMan09 2 years ago
Propagandists don't have to do a thing. Watching people disrupting meetings by shouting conspiracy theories does it for me. Like Code Pink and the Tea Party people.
Its funny how people on the far left or far right feel so connected to one while saying the other's are nuts. The truth is, crazy people can always spot other crazies but can't see it for themselves.
raunchbear 2 years ago
@raunchbear
yesas you then dont come under natural born plus his father was a british subject which under their law Obama is british
she proberly wanted Obama tto be born a kenyan being a radical but her parants proberly warned her about the benifits to be american so they registed his birth as it was possible to do it as a live birth. Thats why the original cant be seen because it will reveal his kenyan birth.
Does anyone know when he changed his name to Barack h Obama from barry soetoro
beginization 2 years ago
Go to fucking grade school. I.E. learn sum punctiation
raunchbear 1 year ago
SHOW US THE MONEY!!(The Birth Certificate)!! What has Oh-Bummer got to hide? I trust in Lou Dobbs, not CNN!
Felatelist 2 years ago
I'd like us to use this forum to talk about the aftermath of a trial bringing obama in guilty.
what are we facing ?
after all this concerns us because we live in this world and can't escape to another planet
it's not as if it wasn't us who will see this affect us
so if obama falls we have to look squarely in the face what will happen
he's frauded the nuclear secrecy of the us army by not showing a legit identity and has frauded the People of the world, WE THE PEOPLE
US ARMY SECRET BREACH'S DEATH
SakyaNgor 2 years ago
lou dobbs is mentally ill.......he only talks about immigration and birth certificate....
stephenville100 2 years ago
Loulou dobbs is a loulou
eskanazi 2 years ago
What the hell does race have to do withhim producing a birth certificate? I will try that at the DMV and social security office next time. Racist bastards. I wonder if I can get into the miss black USA pageant without a birth certificate saying I am American and Female. How did this shit get to be about race, give it a break. Racist bastards who say this about people with legitimate questions. Go Dobbs
davids2244 2 years ago
Bullshit....Many White people voted for Obama...WHY? Because he wasn't full Black with a White mama. Obama put both White and Black people at ease...even Hispanics. HAHA...Black people got gypped on a REAL Black President. If Tiger Woods won...Black people would still call him the first Black Pres...even though he's Asian too....Black doesn't supercede who Obama is.Black is just half of who Obama is.
delaolsen 2 years ago
Fuck this horrible propaganda. You evil bastards call everyone racist. You call the good guys racist to try and silence them. Stop the new world order.
BrettDunbar 2 years ago
.....HAHAHAHAHAHA
guteo 2 years ago
The argument that this is a racially charged accusation rests on the premise that if Obama were white, no one be making any accusations about his nationality.
As far as Obama's health care disaster, an NBC poll showed that Republicans have a 21% approval rating on health care. It seems health care is actually everyone's disaster. Go ahead and call NBC out as biased if you want, but I'm sure there are other polls that say the same thing.
suzanne217elise 2 years ago
Always reach for the race card when you don't have a legitimate argument.
Downfacingdog 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Nice try, lefty. But the truth is -------Foxnews is #1 because people choose to watch it -- pretty hard to understand, eh? I wswear the bottom-feeder libs on this message board is overwhelming. ********* Yep, MSNBC is in the tank! * * * God Bless You, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Mark Levin, Michael Savage, etc... for your fine ability to expose the truth (about the evil LEFT) to the American people. Exposing the far LEFT energizes the silent majority ..and we are not going away!
christinapebbles 2 years ago
Propaganda bullshit!!!!!!
Downfacingdog 2 years ago
Did I miss soemthing? I didn't hear anything Racialy charged except for the person being told to say that Dobbs questions is about race. I think I heard him ask abotu the birth certificate. And heard millions asking the same thing. This must be from the SPLC web site. They are racist against the white race. They have gobbs of articles on white's activities but nothing updated or easy to find about the blacks like Farrahkan,new black panther party. black thology movement
XxXxINSIGHTxXxX 2 years ago
Its not. Pelosi certified his candidacy under false pretense. She obstructed justice for political gain.
chiron91423 2 years ago 2
In what way is the request for Obama's birth certificate connected with race?
christianpatriot125 2 years ago 6
@christianpatriot125 1st time black president...1st time any president has his birth place questioned...do the maths!
pieter292 1 year ago
@pieter292
I don't think that's true. Chester A. Arthur (1829–1886), 21st president of the United States, was rumored to have been born in Canada. This was never demonstrated by his Democratic opponents, although Arthur Hinman, the attorney in charge of an investigation, raised the objection during his vice-presidential campaign and after the end of his Presidency.
His father was an Irish-born British Subject (sound familiar?) & he was born almost on the Vermont Canadian border.
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Has anyone before ever asked this question of any other president? Maybe thats why it is questionable about the race factor.
1zzzzzzz1 1 year ago
@1zzzzzzz1 I repeat:
Chester A. Arthur (1829–1886), 21st president of the United States, was rumored to have been born in Canada. This was never demonstrated by his Democratic opponents, although Arthur Hinman, the attorney in charge of an investigation, raised the objection during his vice-presidential campaign and after the end of his Presidency.
His father was a British Subject (sound familiar?) & he was born almost on the Vermont Canadian border.
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Look this is crazy if he truly was a canadian citizen then he should have not been allowed to be president, same case here, except this is not true it has been proved with out doubt. But it does not matter how much evidence you show these people they are only going to see and hear what they want to.
1zzzzzzz1 1 year ago
@1zzzzzzz1 What proof?
His granny says he was born in Kenya. His school records say he was an Indonesian citizen.
The COLB isn't a birth certificate. There is no statement by an attending Dr. He sealed all records which might end debate.
Personally I think dual citizenship is a red-herring. Most early presidents were dual citizens as King George never really gave up his claim. But I don't accept that McCain is natural born as the legislation applying to his circumstance passed after his birth.
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Listen he has proven and shown an overwhelming amount of evidence, at this point no matter how much physical proof he comes up with you are still going to believe hes not a citizen, and to be completly honest if he hasnt shown enough evidence that hes a citizen than i dont know how any one would.
1zzzzzzz1 1 year ago
@1zzzzzzz1
I don't know whether he's a US citizen or not, and neither do you!
The published evidence points to him not being a citizen:
His grandmother's evidence, his Indonesian citizenship, his presence in Pakistan at a time US citizens were refused entry, etc. etc.
If he were to release his records we would know one way or the other. The fact that he refuses to end the debate could be regarded as circumstantial evidence that he is a fraud.
What is the overwhelming evidence you refer to?
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Look, like i said your not going to believe hes an american citizen no matter what, and speak for your self when you say i dont know!
1zzzzzzz1 1 year ago
@1zzzzzzz1
How can you KNOW when you haven't seen any conclusive evidence. If you have what is it?
The only evidence in the public domain, that I am aware of, is not conclusive, although it may have persuaded you to accept one side of the argument.
I have presented facts which point to his not being a citizen. You have presented no counter argument, let alone one which might trump his granny's eye-witness testimony or his Indonesian citizenship.
Maybe you work in Hawaii's birth records dept.
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Look i have seen enough evidence im not here to say you are wrong or right its your belief, this may seem crazy to you but remember the whole thing is really crazy.
1zzzzzzz1 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 Gee, I wonder. Did you ask for George W. Bush's birth certificate? Bill Clinton's? I wonder why.
joshatkins94 1 year ago
@joshatkins94
I don't think Bill Clinton's, or George Bush's granny said either of them were born anywhere other than in the USA. Gee, I wonder why!
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
@christianpatriot125 ... Seriously? Did anyone ask for Bush's birth certificate? Did anyone ask for Clinton's birth certificate? How about Reagan's? Carter's? No? What do all those Presidents have in common that is different from Obama? Hmmm...
emantabrizi 6 months ago
@emantabrizi
Would it be that unlike Obama, none of them hid their records?
christianpatriot125 6 months ago
@christianpatriot125 ... You really believe that? You think they were all open and honest, but Obama is the one deceiving us? Are you a conspiracy theorist? Because, if so, I won't waste my time.
emantabrizi 6 months ago
@emantabrizi
I would be interested to know of any birth or education records you believe the men you've mentioned hid.
I guess that would make you a conspiracy theorist.
It's interesting that you seem to find an enquiring mind to be a negative quality. Do you believe everything government tells you?
So the Christians lit the great fire of Rome, the jews were behind the Reichstag fire, the USA is not at war in Libya etc.
christianpatriot125 6 months ago
@christianpatriot125 ... I don't know if they hid any of their records. I DO know that no one ever made a fuss over any of those Presidents' birth certificates. Most people couldn't tell you where any of them were born, but they'll tell you they're 100% confident they were born in the United States. Why? Because they LOOK American. Then, an African-American is elected to the Presidency, and suddenly, it's a legitimate question? LOL, give me a break. It's racism...pure and simple.
emantabrizi 6 months ago
@emantabrizi
Does John McCain look American? There would have been just as much fuss had he won the election as there has been over Obama because John McCain is definitely not a Natural Born Citizen, regardless of Congressional claims.
The law giving Natural Born Status to those born in his circumstances was passed after his birth. Therefore he was not a Natural Born Citizen at the time of his birth.
The attention is on Obama because he's in office, rather than the Panamanian McCain.
christianpatriot125 6 months ago
@christianpatriot125 ... LOL, of course, John McCain looks American. He's an old, white man who, a lot of people believe, was born within the borders of the United States. That's why the "Birthers" never mentioned McCain during the 2008 campaign. There was no controversy there.
emantabrizi 6 months ago
@emantabrizi
As far as I'm concerned McCain doesn't look any more American than does Obama.
Are you some sort of WASP who thinks that only White Anglo-Saxon Protestants can be regarded as REALLY American?
There was enough controversy about McCain's Panamanian birth for him to have seek & get a Congressional declaration that he was a Natural Born US citizen. He was only one of many candidates at the time, so perhaps you didn't notice.
christianpatriot125 6 months ago
@christianpatriot125 ... It's admirable that you see McCain and Obama as being equally "American-looking," but most people don't. Seventy percent of Americans are white. With that in mind, most people would consider McCain to be more "American-looking" than Obama.
emantabrizi 6 months ago
CNN = Crackpot Nonsense Network
dean4516 2 years ago
If you say so, Rod!
demslibssuck 2 years ago
There is a birth certificate that was produced before Obama began to run. Dobbs looks more and more like a fool.
Rodney92 2 years ago
7 months in office and STILL no birth certificate. Liberal kooks can only ridicule the obvious.
DeathToLiberalism 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
I LOVE GLENN BECK, DOBBS, SAVAGE, LIMBAUGH, HANNITY, & LEVIN. Media Matters blows.
demslibssuck 2 years ago
Agreed. Media Matters is A FASCIST NAZI GROUP that is attempting to silence anyone who speaks out against the agenda IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE LIKE LOU DOBBS AND GLENN BECK ARE EXPOSING THE NWO AND GLOBALIST AGENDA, THEY ARE STANDING UP AND WARNING PEOPLE OF GROWING THREATS FROM GOV'T.....
GUESS WHO FOUNDED AND FUNDS MEDIA MATTERS... GEORGE SOROS MEMBER? OF THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, BUILDERBERG GROUP, AND INTERNATIONAL FINANCIER
mac9641 2 years ago 2
mac EXACTUALLY this crap comes back to BLACK IDEOLOGY that seeks to destroy the country by any means possibly. To Turn it upside down and not stop. It's in Farrahakans words, and James H Cones also. Blacks who are anti american are wreaking havoic in the USA and inviting the Islamic extremist in 4 dinner. Chk out the Hilton Hotel N Chicargo it just hosted islamic Radials talk abt Terror n well it is Farrahkans home town and well yeah Obama isn't an American by any stretch of the imgaination
XxXxINSIGHTxXxX 2 years ago
Let me see, now. Have I ever been bamboozled by an American president?
LBJ: "I will never send American boys to fight in Vietnam."
Richard Nixon: "I am not a crook."
Bill Clinton: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
So, with all my little heart and soul, I want to believe both Barry and Bobby, but I'm still wanting the actual proof.
chiron91423 2 years ago 2
Mr. Chiron, I believe you just hit the nail on the head.
Drahthaar422 2 years ago
MediaMatters, why dont you ask Obama for that. Why you got a problem with Lou Dobbs who doesnt represent your silly ideas? Lou Dobbs is the real host coming from CNN all else are sheeple. He speaks the hidden secrecy of the government and their conspirartors! We all know Obama is a frontman. That is why he was elected, America did not chose Obama, the banklords did. MediaMatters is a coward of same thing from all Rocekefeller's organizations to manipulate the truth? Looks like to me! LOL MediaM
gearzone2611 2 years ago
Lou Dobbs is as bad as Bill O'Rielly , he has no idea of how to debate, he just wants to present his side and then yell down any attempt to present an opposing view, seems to be a constant with right wing extremists.
kenclark1942 2 years ago
Instead of using empty fear mongering attack strategies, focus on the evidence whether or not Obama was born in the U.S. Show the evidence, and stop messing with people's emotions.
How is questioning Obama's place of birth racist?
'Take action'? what kind of action?, restricting one's freedom of speech?... oh sure, that's not tyrannical or authoritarian at all...
trekyz 2 years ago 2
I think Lou Dobbs talking about the birth certificate is retarded, but Media Matters is trying to paint this as a racial issue when it's not.
PresBarack 2 years ago
I LOVE LOU DOBBS! CNN is beneath him. CNN has become a tabloid tool for the elites to keep the people ignorant and uninformed. Congratulations sheeple.
TruthFan 2 years ago
Google: OBAMA DECEPTION
Obama is a puppet of Wallstreet!
SolitonPL 2 years ago
or they can petition the court. a simple solution for the obtuse to grasp.
chiron91423 2 years ago
Media broadcasters are as smart as an average american = very stupid and ignorant
rmanrod 2 years ago
Lou Dobbs, what a waste of sperm !
caibarien71 2 years ago
photoshopped also?
chiron91423 2 years ago
He does have a valid birth cert.
capilot 2 years ago
He has produced it. There are several web sites, starting with Snopes, where you can see it.
capilot 2 years ago
yor still talking about a birth anouncement
a birth certificate has doctors names and details of baby with full infomation on it.
take a look at your own and you will see
The form you have seen was printed recently and is not a copy of the original
beginization 1 year ago
I'd be delighted to send you links but they won't post here for some reason. However the Hawaiian Doh issues the short form since the long forms have trouble printing on their computers when diacritical marks are encountered. You can petition the court for the original and receive it.
chiron91423 2 years ago
You can either post a link with turning . or / into "dot" or "slash"
You could also give us a google search in which what you're looking at is the first or second hit.
If you actually can get an original long form from the Dept of Health, I'd be interested to see a credible source for that info.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
alot have people have tried and been refused
beginization 1 year ago
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chiron91423 2 years ago
visit infowars for the real number one videos and important news
mikejh101 2 years ago 3
Lou is the only one at CNN that is worth watching!
youbestbequiet 2 years ago 5
LOL you are sanitizing your comments??
Proves my point. You guys are scared of the truth.
chiron91423 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
lol @ "Racially Charged Paranoia"
If anybody is paranoid it is clearly the Obamanoids. I'm sure Lou Dobbs would be raising the same stink if Obama was a white man.
CrociatoAzzurro 2 years ago
cnn and lou dobbs has become too racist to be credited as a reliable news source
elchalino1 2 years ago
Media Matters cloaks their arguments in a veil of posh presentation. They use intentionally equivocal and ambiguous terms and proceed to project a premise with a sense of deliberation and moderation. When cornered in an argument they resort to the classic distraction: "G.W. Bush" Now, Bush was a schmuck. I didn't vote for him or Juan McCain. But Democrats are just as sleazy and just as power-mad. Dems like Kerry and Clinton, among others, voted for the Iraq War Resolution and the TARP.
merlinmkIII 2 years ago
The fact that Media Matters has to start a hate campaign against a reporter is indicative of the sad state of American politics and the subjugation of the free press. Rather than call for truth, they are obstructing justice. A lot of misinformation in these comments. In Hawaii there is a difference between a certificate and a certification. You can indeed obtain your long form. Ostensibly the question boils down to whether Obama told the truth or not. Very simple solution. Release the document.
chiron91423 2 years ago
"You can indeed obtain your long form."
I'm sorry, but that's factually false. The Dept of Health has said the short form is the only Hawaii birth certificate since 2001.
qwertyman129 2 years ago 2
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x78x 2 years ago
Yeah! If Media Matters believes so strongly that this is a non-issue, then why don't they request a discussion with Dobbs to state their case and then let the viewers decide. If MM presents a convincing argument and Dobbs still wants to press the issue long afterward (which would be his right to do), then the viewers will determine his success by either watching it further or by changing the channel. If ratings drop because people are sick of the issue then Dobbs will stop talking about it.
BelieveIt1051 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Anyone who donates to these morons is painfully confused
Kil6969 2 years ago 2
"Racially charged paranoia"
Em........ No!!!! This is about a birth certificate not being produced. Its that simple. If he was born in America, he'd have no problem producing the original. Instead he decides to spend millions to make sure that it DOESN'T come out.
Now doesn't that alone have bells ringing in your head? Every candidate has to provide it. Yet Mr "Savour" Obama doesn't have to? Maybe he was made in a Lab. Maybe he really is Jesus "The Return"!!!!!
deadbeat78 2 years ago
He's spent millions covering it up? Got a source on that?
Oh, and if all Presidents HAD to do it, he would've had to early on. Either he showed it to those who needed to see it, or you're lying.
But yeah, clearly the state of Hawaii is conspiring, his mom made them put his name in the paper over 40 years ago because she knew he'd be president, and everyone has asked for every other Presidents BC relentlessly, right?
Wait, no.
imthecoffeecup 2 years ago
He would have only had to if requested to by the vetting committee. McCain was requested to because he was born on an army base. Obama was not requested to.
Maybe because the committee was lead by Democrats.
BelieveIt1051 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
My sister was born in California about 60 years ago. Her birth county's "short-form" BC has all the data as the original "long-form", including parent names/address/job, doctor info, hospital info, etc. She has multiple copies of both forms
Less than a month ago I talked with the county registrar's office in detail and it confirmed it. We also order BC copies from the counties, not the state
"I don't know what state you are in but in most states you can ONLY order the short-form BC."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I didn't use my "long" v. "short" forms as an example, as I was born on a military base and that could be considered atypical...although the data fields provided in my "long" and "short" forms are the same.
I suggest the real issue is that some states and/or counties reduce the data content on the "digital" copy of the BC while other states/counties do not. Hence some "short" forms are "shorter" than others.
exgenica 2 years ago
I don't believe state governments will EVER get rid of long-form BCs. If anything they will start adding more information (such as DNA coding). LFs will continue to be stored in places like Iron Mountain
However for day-to-day cost savings states will continue using digital SF BCs to meet MOST legal needs. Legally acceptable proof of birth location isn't the only legal function provided to society by an LF BC
It's been fun and interesting but it's late
Thanks for the very civil back and forth
exgenica 2 years ago
I trimmed too much when I was trying to meet the character limit.
One sentence should have read as:
"Legally acceptable proof of name, age, and birth location is not the only function provided by a long-form birth certificate"
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Politicians generally do things only when convenient or personally profitable. For many it's "Do as I say not as I do". They are some of most self-serving and arrogant people I know
I'm in favor of term limits: one can only serve TOTAL of 8 yrs in either House AND Senate during lifetime and DON'T get lifetime full salary after retire. Salaries approved by People
"Where is the separation of federal and state powers the Republicans talk so much about? Or is that only when it's convenient?"-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
Obama is what happens when human garbage on welfare, excited and brainwashed by the the RICH elites within pop-culture and within the state-run media, VOTE. The voters THINK they are GETTING something for themselves. The rich elites GET something for themselves. The middle-class gets RAPED. And its all done democratically (supposedly).
merlinmkIII 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Perhaps not ROUTINE access. HI certainly prefers to not set a precedent that could undo the savings they gained by going digital
But a court COULD order production of the original document. HI would have to decide to sue to have the order rescinded-which wouldn't look very good
Assuming HI does have a LF BC, it's in secure storage and simply requires more time and money to retrieve
"Maybe because the state of Hawaii doesn't allow access to the long-form birth certificates anymore."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Not necessarily. If need proof only LF BC provides (e.g. acceptable proof of parent ID, parent residency, etc) it requires the LF BC. Indeed, with ID theft someone could even claim the need in some bizarre case to compare biometrics (e..g footprint) some LF BCs contain...to prove the BC is in fact your BC
Given enough cause, SCOTUS could even initiate action claiming "Original Jurisdiction". No SF "fake" proof needed
"No doubt they would first have to prove the short-form BC is fake."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
At this point I think the Birthers need to prove he isn't NBC. But they need the documents to do so
My mom's official BC has her footprint
Members of US and other governments are proposing including DNA data on the BC, and at least one proposal included an encapsulated DNA sample
Parent residency proof can be required for other reasons
"Obama only needs to prove he is a natural born citizen, not his parents home address..."BC" with feet is not a birth certificate. It's a 'souvenir'"-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I think you'll find it's not that simple. Cases often go to court where people claim they COULD be adversely affected. A germane case would be the military guy that had a court date who claimed he MIGHT be harmed "more" by US enemies if captured if Obama wasn't legitimate. His case was dropped by the court ONLY when his orders to the Middle East were rescinded
"The main problem is to ever get the case heard in court you must have "standing", basically you have been directly harmed."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
That's him. On video clip I saw he said he was recalled to active duty by military but he didn't want to be ordered into combat zone unless Obama proved he was legally qualified to be President (due to possible adverse consequences if captured)
Arrrgh! Stuff like this always depends who we hear it from and how they spin it.
"If I'm not mistaken isn't that the Stefan F. Cook case with Orly Taitz? Cook volunteered to serve for one year in Afghanistan...concocted the whole scenario...."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Obama's first executive order as President was Executive Order 13489. It sealed his birth records and college transcripts, among other items. This man makes Richard Nixon look like a cupcake. Actually, Tricky Dick was ten times the president that Obama could ever hope to be. Men like Richard Nixon, Eisenhower, JFK (Obama is no JFK; in fact JFK would be disgusted in how cheap and regressive his party has become) were men of excellence. Obama and Bush were schmucks. Media Matters is a tool.
merlinmkIII 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Thank you, x78x, for saying exactly what the Right-Wing nuts would say.
"Oh well its fake"
"Oh, he took his time because he had to get it made"
Remember kids, conspiracy theories are always true. Obama is a communist, he appoints Marxists, Zionists, Socialists, and fellow Communists. He's racist, trying to run the country in the ground ASAP, and is out to make the Right-Wing look like fools. It's one giant conspiracy, say goodbye to your rights in the next 8 years!
Hurrrdurrr
imthecoffeecup 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
No, Jews are leaving obama in droves because of his anti-Israel stance. They also see what he really is , a racist, and the fair-minded Jews will not put up with that.
joeasmythe 2 years ago
Aw, someone's been eating up everything John Hagee's said, huh?
We're not going to ally with every single damn country that goes to war. If anything, Isreal committed more crimes than it's opposition.
And lol@Obama being a racist. Yes, the leader of a largely white nation with a white grandmother is racist against everyone but blacks and hispanics, right? Makes perfect sense.
imthecoffeecup 2 years ago
Sure is in the Constitution , but does it really matter? Does it makes Obama less or more capable as president whether he was born in Kenya or Hawaii?
enaldume 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Why is this a problem? All obama has to do is produce the certificate, or does his elite snobbish attitude towards us voters preclude him from doing that??
joeasmythe 2 years ago
Well, a Hawaiian senator feels the same as you. William Espero introduced legislation that would force the Department of Public Health of Hawaii to release the long form birth certificate.
By the way, before anyone calls "right wing nut" on this guy, he is a democrat senator.
There are more democrat birthers than there are republican birthers (mostly because republicans are spineless though).
BelieveIt1051 2 years ago
OB not showing us his birth certificate just multiplies the lies that spews out of his mouth. We need to call back our US army from Afghanistan to protect us old people from his union and acorn army he's recruited and created to intimidate us citizens. This man is not acting like an American, he's acting like an illegal alien. His heart and mind and birth certificate are UN, USSR, not US.
kurbri 2 years ago
"you guys" = Scared White Men...hahahahhaahhahahaahahahhahahaahhahahahahahaahha!!!! Laughing Stock of any credible News Source...especially Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert...love it!!!
sandinista138 2 years ago
Why would Obama show his birth certificate after this circus? He can avoid a lot of genuine criticism so long as these Nirthers keep at it. Tin Foil Alert!
peteosw 2 years ago
Part1/4
Taking one more "Obama conspiracy not possible" counter-argument off the table
Re: those who say "An Obama conspiracy couldn't or wouldn't have gone back to 1961 newspaper birth announcements"
Both "sides" are missing a key point. It doesn't take a conspiracy to have a birth notice posted in Hawaii newspaper
All it takes is a proud dad who wants his son's birth announced in the state the family currently resides REGARDLESS of where the son may have been actually born (cont'd)
exgenica 2 years ago
Part2/4
If I were a proud new traveling out-of-country dad I certainly would have phoned or telegraphed (given 1961) notice of my son's birth to local papers for friends/family to see, AND to have a family record of the event
Sending notices to numerous newspapers (both local and other states) is something MANY families do for both birth and death announcements
This removes relevance of "An Obama conspiracy couldn't have gone back to 1961 newspaper-" newspaper birth listings issue (cont'd)
exgenica 2 years ago
Part3/4
The ONLY way the 1961 newspaper birth notices counter-argument would be meaningful in this entire "is it or isn't it a conspiracy?" issue, is if it could be PROVEN that the notices were sent from a Hawaii hospital, and not the result of a notice submitted by Obama's dad or family, OR it could be PROVEN that the newspapers received phone calls, telegraphs, letters, or visits from Obama's dad or another family member (cont'd)
exgenica 2 years ago
Part4/4
Unfortunately after almost 50 years it's highly unlikely any tracking records exist (hospital bills, phone company long-distance logs/bills, newspaper logs, telegraph logs, etc) that could prove one or the other...although I assume people have been checking for these obvious traces
I'm not saying a conspiracy did or did not occur. All I'm saying is posting the notices didn't REQUIRE conspiracy
The mere existence of the 1961 newspaper notices doesn't prove anything one way or the other
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
Birth/death notices have been also submitted by families to US newspapers for as long as I can remember. There was no requirement they come from an "official" source
Perhaps those 2 newspapers had a special rule at that time, but once again that's one of those bits of evidence that is unlikely to remain 100% provable
There are always exceptions: home births, mid-wife births, native births (esp in early Hawaii), and...foreign births..., etc
Non-hospital births were less rare back then.
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I agree it looks good. But there are often procs to handle exceptions in any Health Department(HD) registration system. E.G. Obama's dad could have formally registered birth with HD via foreign hospital or US embassy. NOT saying he did just that such is possible. It would show up in HD section. It might or might not show a given birth was foreign
"Obama's was in the Health Department section. This information comes from the Hawaii Health Department which should know their own procedures."-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I didn't address his BC, but I could counter with fact I was born on military base. My "long-form" BC shows name of military base as my birthplace. My latest "short-form" BC shows DIFFERENT name of surrounding town as my birthplace-base closed
My only point here being key differences can exist in "long" v. "short" BC's
"His short-form birth certificate show Honolulu as his birth place..
Even so this is all irrelevant. The law allowing...didn't exist until 20 years AFTER Obama was born"-x78x
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I realize it's not exact same situation but it does show LForm v SForm exceptions exist
For example it's POSSIBLE when the BC's were "digitized" a key entry operator w/ minimal training or just plain tired accidentally entered city of "Residence" as the city of "Birth". In my BC, the city of birth "rectangle" is EXACTLY above the city of residence "rectangle". A mistake would be all too easy
Obama Sr's residence was Honolulu
Key-entry mistakes are historically endemic to manual digitizing
exgenica 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
I doubt Hawaii's Health Department, especially back in 1961, would NOT be interested in officially recording births of Hawaii residents that occurred at homes, native villages, out-of-state, etc
Exceptions can also become critical. If there is even one known exception, then one can't claim with certainty that an arbitrary birth wouldn't be registered by the HD and then sent to the newspapers HD sections
It would be of value to discover Hawaii's HD 1961 registration procs, exceptions, and data
exgenica 2 years ago
I have my birth certificate and I'm way over 50.
kurbri 2 years ago
Evidence Obama was born in HI:
1. Birth certificate
2. Birth announcements
3. Statement from Dept of Health
4. Obama's statements
5. Sister's statements
6. Statement of step-grandmother: "Obama was born in Hawaii... this is obvious."
7. Statement of uncle "Obama's first trip to Kenya was in 1987."
Evidence Obama was not born in Hawaii:
1. ________________________
qwertyman129 2 years ago
quertyman129...
"Statements" (items 3-7) are not proof. Just because someone, no matter who it is, says something does not make it true. "Statements" can at best be called corroborative testimony. Also, they weren't even under binding oath
re: "2. Birth announcements" As I've previously explained (I think fairly well) their mere existence doesn't prove things one way OR the other. They COULD have been generated from other totally legitimate sources for reasons totally unrelated to citizenship
exgenica 2 years ago
"Statements are not proof."
That's why I didn't say they were proof. I said they were evidence.
Really, the most telling part of your two posts is you had nothing to add to the "Evidence Obama was born anywhere other than Honolulu" list.
You need more than what is possible and what could happen to overcome all the evidence.
Saying that it's possible the moon landings were fake does not mean that the moon landings were faked, nor does it even make it likely the moon landings were faked.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
I thought you'd come back with that "evidence" v. "proof" argument.
The problem is the manner in which you provided the information I sincerely believe was an attempt to discuss it as proof. Something too many people are doing. They confuse "evidence" with "proof" and/or with "fact".
Claims are not even "evidence" in the manner you presented. They are simply statements made by people.
There are very strict rules for considering statements, hearsay, documents, images, etc. as "evidence".
exgenica 2 years ago
It's not my fault if people don't understand the difference between evidence and proof. And of course the statements aren't court admissible - there's never been testimony or hearings on this. However, the COLB is prima facie evidence in any court.
Is it possible there was an elaborate plan to get fake birth announcements planted? Yes. Is it reasonable to believe that that happened, given the totality of the circumstances? No.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
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x78x 2 years ago
After that we'll have Orly trying to exhume the corpse of Obama Sr. and give him a post-mortem retroactive American citizenship, sort of like the Mormons baptizing people who have been dead for years. Ironically, the Mormons recently did baptize Obama Sr.
qwertyman129 2 years ago
I didn't even take a side or try to "add to evidence...other than Hawaii"!
I'm just a scientist trying to get people, regardless of "side" think objectively and understand the difference between claims, "evidence", etc. and proof, and to understand there can be many different ways to get the same thing done (E.G. birth announcements)
re: "Really, the most telling part of your two posts is you had nothing to add to the "Evidence Obama was born anywhere other than Honolulu" list."-qwertyman129
exgenica 2 years ago