Do you care about the "ethical implications" of offering your friend "whatever she needed" and then not only rejecting her one request but redefining her request to mean things that YOU want to do for her so you can feel like you were there for her?
Our brains, which art in our heads, treasured be thy names. Thy reasoning come. The best you can do be done on earth as it is. Give us this day new insight to resolve conflicts and ease pain. And lead us not into supernatural explanations, deliver us from denial of logic. For thine is the kingdom of reason, and even though thy powers are limited, and you’re not always glorious, you are the best evolutionary adaptation we have for helping this earth now and forever and ever. So be it.
Praying with your legs is more enlightened than passing responsibility to an imaginary being but misses the reality behind prayer. As an expression of the connectedness of all things, it does not require a mythical being as its object although that association helps many people. From an enlightened perspective it is not divisive. The word has come to be associated with something different than the power of our awareness of that connectedness. Read a few passages of the Tao Te Ching :-)
@dannywizz - Please name these prophecies (exactly) and their fulfillments. Make sure you don't just quote Jesus saying that there would be famine and earthquakes, as that has never ceased since the earth was formed and humans evolved.
@ReligiousFiction First of, if it is you in the video you are very Pretty! Got a Kirsten Dunst kinda thing going on there.
Anyway, Israel is the ultimate prophecy subject in the bible. Remember God is 100% accurate in his predictions and ONLY a whole city's repentance from sin, our free will, can avoid these predictions from coming true. I think there is only one example of this in the bible.
The Devil though (New Age, Nostradamus, Tarot, Magic etc) has only got a 30-70% accuracy.
I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the Lord your God.
@ReligiousFiction Israel in established in ONE DAY of declaration 1948:
Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."
@ReligiousFiction Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful:
Leviticus 26:3, 7-8
"If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you."
There are tons of prophecy's in the bible. 25% of the bible is that in fact. And 2000+ has come true already. 500 to go!!!
@dannywizz yes danny, please tell us all more of the 'truth', please continue praying and pay no attention to reality nor the sounds of laughter because no one would ever laugh at your obviously clear and amazing truths, praise Jesus!
Please tell us all more, please enlighten us all and provide more evidence for your truths. Hold to your faith that the sounds of snickering and ill-conceived laughter are only offerings of praise and honor for your amazing truths.
@InternalCompass You are the Atheist so you are the one with blind faith. You believe that something comes from nothing without a cause.
Regards to daily prophecies, yes did you know that Israel recently found oil and gas in their country, third biggest oil refinery in the world. Just in time for the coming war.
Where was this prophesied, yes in THE BIBLE.
You believe in evolution and 1260 mutations to make every living being, tree and rock. Well that takes faith!!!
@dannywizz Not Blind, No Faith, just a HUMBLE approach to truth and knowledge.
I deny God, yet if God exists, he is inseparable from truth. How to you reconcile this Danny?
Is your God so weak that he can only exist within lies and delusion? is your God so weak? If your God is true then you can only serve and magnify him thru TRUTH, not thru lies, not thru ignorance, not thru empty assertions that everyone else already recognizes as bullshit.
@dannywizz I've not just studied for decades the New testament of the Bible, but I've also humbly studied the other Abrahamic religions from the Tora and the Koran for decades and yet now I'm still a humble student of truth, philosophy, justice, myth, culture and religion.
After decades of humble respect for religion, and a deeply sincere search for truth, ask yourself why I laugh at your 'unicorn, rainbows and glitter' view of the unsophisticated and childish myths that you call religion.
@dannywizz Danny, I know it's hard for someone that doesn't think, just go out and play angry-birds and try to observe the memetic flow of explosions, collapses and failures on all sides. Take notes but never repeat any mistake. Just continue exploiting any weaknesses of the other side more and more within each generation of play.
Sorry Danny, but I know you won't get it, you can't get it, just drop to your knees and praise Allah, sorry I mean Jesus, I mean…Danny? What do you mean? Teach us!!
@InternalCompass Is that you best response? I was waiting on some scientific stuff but this is just blah, blah, blah...
I assume you are a humanist/naturalist? If so you are believing a logical fallacy. Nature was created by the big bang just as the laws of physics were. So nature is not the answer to anything that has to do with the origin of life or the universe etc.
Really, the one that has to think is you. Use your brain cause that is why God gave you one.
@dannywizz Science? Reality? I now understand how much you value NOT THINKING, ie 'faith' AKA 'blind ignorance'…
Why would I or anyone else attempt to waste time speaking a language that the ignorant moron willfully and pridefully proclaims false from a foundational ignorance?
Why not admit that your 'faith' is not based in any observable reality, it's just blind and ignorant (I mean pure and from Jesus), but of course that is why your Bible promises heaven for blind and ignorant faith.
You are a true friend in every sense of the word. This may be lead your friend down an unexpected path. My divorce is what led me to atheism. Mind you, my divorce did not CAUSE me to become atheist. But rather it sent me down a path that eventually led me to atheism.
Obviously you are a real friend. I watched the video twice and didn't hear you say that you had told your friend that you were not a believer. If you do stay close to your friend in order to help her as you have said, don't you think this will come up again? You really should tell her where you stand as regards prayer and explain that you will do anything else for her. After all, if her god is real, he won't be moved by unfelt words, And your friend might think her god was moving - using - you.
Suppose she said "Ok, please kill my husband." You would not hesitate to deny her request. Same with praying. She asked for something immoral and dishonest from you.
@LifesVideos Atheist means not one who believes in a god or gods. A –> not – Theist –> one who believes in a god or gods. An atheist would remain an atheist despite the actual existence of a god or gods.
You have effectively resolved your dilemma in the most responsible way I can imagine! Its very encouraging to know there are voices of reason and compassion such as yours out there! All the best to you and your friend!
I just wish, (not Pray) that just one of my four Sisters, was as smart as you. All, they think about is god. And it finally drove me away. Could not take it anymore. But, life goes on. Now I wonder, if they ever miss me in there life. It's been 2 years. Never hear from them, so I guess not. God turned them into some fine People.
@gettingolder2 I am not sure how to take your comment. At the end you say that God turned them into fine people. Being sarcastic since you havent heard from them in 2 years. Yet you say it was their constant belief in God that drove YOU away because YOU could not take it anymore. And yet they have not heard from YOU in 2 years. Maybe you cant take it anymore, but you should call them on holidays and birthdays,etc. Just sayin
There was a study that showed that those who were prayed for, but didn't know it, showed no improvement over those who were not prayed for. The same study showed that those who thought they were being prayed for, fared worse.
I will pray to my mighty Flying Spaggetti Monster and to my Pink Unicorn in garden and to the Dragons in my Garage to help your friend. Good luck to her!!
Beautifully said. I've got similar sentiments about prayer - I don't mind it so long as you do it on your feet and not on your knees. I think that the comfort of being prayed for is feeling less alone, knowing that other people love you and want to help. Everyone should be so lucky as to have a kind and thoughtful friend like you at their side.
this makes me think of something that one of my pastors used to say and that is that if we dont (act) god wont... that was a "moment in christianity" for me because it made me realize that god NEVER "acts" independently of our actions.
I once heard a black baptist preacher say that angels aren't around to do God's work, that we had to do it. I took his message to be that praying for divine help was useless and that it was up to us. He wanted his congregation to ACT! I took it as a sign that certain prayer doesn't work. I was a teenager.
Action is not prayer. Does this friend know that you are an atheist? If so, just remind her of that. If not, tell her you are and ask her for something else you could do for her.
As you have correctly surmised an atheist cannot do anything that could be defined as prayer. So either your friend was being disengenuous and trying to trick you into theism or she doesn't know. Tell her and be done with it. Your integrity and compassion are touching, but your guilt is misplaced.
You had me going until half way through; I thought you were going to pray. And it's not unheard of for an atheist to 'pray' for a loved one or dear friend when asked to do so by them. It sure puts us in an awkward situation the first time. What I've learned is to ask the afflicted one "What, in MY power can I do for you?" And this could be many things from cutting their grass, cleaning the house or grocery shopping, etc. I've been burned only once by a theist that I helped.
great vid i totaly agree prayer is a comfort for some in times of trouble so its best not to judge cause i care for them but to my self its too much like useless begging haveing them in my thoughts and being there when they need it fills that void that the useless habbit of prayer/begging did
I don't get asked to pray too much, living in a pretty non religious country, but I go by the same rule when someone I care about is in need. providing actual help, if only in the form of conversation, being there and showing that I care, is what friends do. That's the duty attached to that title. "I'll pray for you" is a cop-out.
While I agree with you, I think prayer is a form of accepting your situation, it's telling yourself that "if it doesn't change it was meant to be". I think the most important thing you could tell your friend is to get off her ass and do something about it, prayer is for victims.
RF - this is why i look forward to your videos. you expound "humanism" in the broadest, grandest sense of the word. my best wishes for you and your friend. ciao.
There's a passage from on of Paul Tillich's sermons that this reminds me of: " Another man was asked whether he believed in God, and he answered, 'I don’t know, but if something very good happens to me, I need someone to whom I can give thanks.'" I read this as I was losing my faith in Christianity, and it began to be my new conception of praying. I don't think there's literally a person out there to whom I owe thanks, but I have this thankfulness for the good things in life, and I have to thank
The best solution is praying with your feet, as you said, do something! However, tell your friend you will pray for her and then do it. Saying a prayer for a friend in no way changes your beliefs or lack thereof.
I suppose if I had been in your shoes I would have told your friend that I was a non-believer and didn't believe in the power of prayer, and then I would have gone on to tell her the rest of what you said in your video. In other words, I would have told her that she could count on me to be there when she needed me, and that I thought my friendship and emotional support would be more valuable to her than my prayers.
So many times Christians or any variety of theists think that whatever solution their religion provides cannot be accomplished as an atheist. Time and again atheists show this to not be true as you have just done. In fact I would say your solution is incomparably better.
I wish you had more videos. If you ever come across another atheist solution to a problem theists think only they have a solution, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
The torment of your conflict is intensely familiar for me.
But, I'll assert that there is no-one more spiritual than an Atheist that has never failed God - Since God is inseparable from truth and to unselfishly search for pure truth is to serve any God that could exist.
We didn't fail God - God failed us - our loyalty, devotion and unflinching integrity to 'Truth/God' is what lead us to this destination we did not choose.
You are an Atheist because of your honesty, integrity and humanity...
... never forget your unflinching devotion to truth and never let anyone degrade it.
As a devote seeker of Truth/God I was born Mormon, and quickly found it to be bullshit, then I moved on to the other Abrahamic religions and I was quickly disappointed.
I was intrigued with Eastern Religion and Eastern Philosophy and finally found honesty and truth within Zen Buddhism and I’ve spent years living in Asia and studying from the source directly...
Ultimately I’m Atheist, but I’m deeply Spiritual in the human sense while I’m a pure Metaphysical Naturalist in the ultimate sense.
If you’ve not read much of Sam Harris, I hope you’ll consider it, because you may be surprised to know that prayer and meditation can be amazing tools to dive into and navigate the untold depths of our own natural neurobiology, with complete disbelief in any god or magic, but accepting the nature and pathology of our deeply social, spiritual and loving nature.
@InternalCompass - I'm very interested in what you've said about Harris' thoughts about meditation. Thanks for stirring that curiosity in me again. I do look back on my history of praying and realize that *something* I did, sometimes when I prayed, helped me calm myself enough to realize 'answers' I assumed were coming from without, but which were actually coming from within.
In a situation like this when I am asked to say a prayer for someone, I usually tell the person asking that I will. It gives them immediate consolation and a feeling of support. Now the extent, duration, and focus of my "prayers" are personal only to me, and something I would do while alone. You're right though, showing your support by physically and emotionally being there for the person is always the best choice.
@mrbr549 - I've done that several times, too. The farther I get away from theism, though, the harder it is to say those words. Also, the fewer people who ask it of me. Thanks for giving me a glimpse of how you deal with this.
@ReligiousFiction If the person you care about believes asking others to pray for them whilst *refusing* other forms of help is good, than tacit acceptance is "giving" them the help they seek. I always think accepting "pray for me" requests is ethical because they are saying in effect: do "nothing" for me, so I have no ethical problem is saying "sure" (I'll do nothing). Then, I go on being available for *real* help as in your "be the prayer" example, which is what really matters.
yea how can a Atheist pray to god when there is no god.
KingBrettx 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I change context. When a person ask for prayers, I simply say that I will certainly keep you in my thoughts. This usually does the trick
awalkalongmingocreek 1 month ago
Altho I do not understand Atheism (Is that a word? LOL), this was a very interesting...You were right on soo many levels! :)
deda07ful 1 month ago
Do you care about the "ethical implications" of offering your friend "whatever she needed" and then not only rejecting her one request but redefining her request to mean things that YOU want to do for her so you can feel like you were there for her?
maxshermann435 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
A Prayer
Our brains, which art in our heads, treasured be thy names. Thy reasoning come. The best you can do be done on earth as it is. Give us this day new insight to resolve conflicts and ease pain. And lead us not into supernatural explanations, deliver us from denial of logic. For thine is the kingdom of reason, and even though thy powers are limited, and you’re not always glorious, you are the best evolutionary adaptation we have for helping this earth now and forever and ever. So be it.
TheCumulusClimber 3 months ago
Totally agree. Don't pray for them, go help them through it
MoviesFromG 3 months ago
omg, this idiot sounds like a robot..... grow up, chick
LordWhorfinX2 3 months ago
Comment removed
stormblast49 4 months ago
Praying with your legs is more enlightened than passing responsibility to an imaginary being but misses the reality behind prayer. As an expression of the connectedness of all things, it does not require a mythical being as its object although that association helps many people. From an enlightened perspective it is not divisive. The word has come to be associated with something different than the power of our awareness of that connectedness. Read a few passages of the Tao Te Ching :-)
khdetw 6 months ago
When people ask me to pray for them I just say your prayer is between you and
your god and you do not need a middle man/woman in there.
inamcster 8 months ago
She is lucky to have you as a friend.
fisherguzzi 8 months ago
Ummm ... religious folks ... ***Pay Attention to this Gal***
msginca 8 months ago
Yawwwwwwwwwwn
bill4long 8 months ago
With all the prophecies being fulfilled day by day and year by year it is funny to me that people still don't see the truth.
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz - Please name these prophecies (exactly) and their fulfillments. Make sure you don't just quote Jesus saying that there would be famine and earthquakes, as that has never ceased since the earth was formed and humans evolved.
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction First of, if it is you in the video you are very Pretty! Got a Kirsten Dunst kinda thing going on there.
Anyway, Israel is the ultimate prophecy subject in the bible. Remember God is 100% accurate in his predictions and ONLY a whole city's repentance from sin, our free will, can avoid these predictions from coming true. I think there is only one example of this in the bible.
The Devil though (New Age, Nostradamus, Tarot, Magic etc) has only got a 30-70% accuracy.
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz - Interesting. Thanks for the links; I'll be sure to look them up in context.
Note, though: punishing a whole population for the sins of a few is NOT just.
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction Ex God gathering the jews back to Israel:
Amos 9:14-15
I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them," says the Lord your God.
dannywizz 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction Israel in established in ONE DAY of declaration 1948:
Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."
Ezekiel 37:21-22
"... I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel...."
dannywizz 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction Israel's army would be disproportionately powerful:
Leviticus 26:3, 7-8
"If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, ... You will pursue your enemies, and they will fall by the sword before you. Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you."
There are tons of prophecy's in the bible. 25% of the bible is that in fact. And 2000+ has come true already. 500 to go!!!
dannywizz 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction As for today's environment we can see this:
1. We are living in end times. Anti-christ is coming. Probably before both you and me die.
2. EVERY NATION will be against ISRAEL. Obama did just a few weeks ago change active policy with regards to Israel.
3. Damascus will probably be blown away pretty soon in some war.
4. Iran stir up violence soon.
etc
"And I will bless those that bless you (Israel) and curse the one who curses you.
Keep your eyes open, it is all happening now.
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz yes danny, please tell us all more of the 'truth', please continue praying and pay no attention to reality nor the sounds of laughter because no one would ever laugh at your obviously clear and amazing truths, praise Jesus!
Please tell us all more, please enlighten us all and provide more evidence for your truths. Hold to your faith that the sounds of snickering and ill-conceived laughter are only offerings of praise and honor for your amazing truths.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
@InternalCompass You are the Atheist so you are the one with blind faith. You believe that something comes from nothing without a cause.
Regards to daily prophecies, yes did you know that Israel recently found oil and gas in their country, third biggest oil refinery in the world. Just in time for the coming war.
Where was this prophesied, yes in THE BIBLE.
You believe in evolution and 1260 mutations to make every living being, tree and rock. Well that takes faith!!!
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz Not Blind, No Faith, just a HUMBLE approach to truth and knowledge.
I deny God, yet if God exists, he is inseparable from truth. How to you reconcile this Danny?
Is your God so weak that he can only exist within lies and delusion? is your God so weak? If your God is true then you can only serve and magnify him thru TRUTH, not thru lies, not thru ignorance, not thru empty assertions that everyone else already recognizes as bullshit.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
@dannywizz I've not just studied for decades the New testament of the Bible, but I've also humbly studied the other Abrahamic religions from the Tora and the Koran for decades and yet now I'm still a humble student of truth, philosophy, justice, myth, culture and religion.
After decades of humble respect for religion, and a deeply sincere search for truth, ask yourself why I laugh at your 'unicorn, rainbows and glitter' view of the unsophisticated and childish myths that you call religion.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
@dannywizz Danny, I know it's hard for someone that doesn't think, just go out and play angry-birds and try to observe the memetic flow of explosions, collapses and failures on all sides. Take notes but never repeat any mistake. Just continue exploiting any weaknesses of the other side more and more within each generation of play.
Sorry Danny, but I know you won't get it, you can't get it, just drop to your knees and praise Allah, sorry I mean Jesus, I mean…Danny? What do you mean? Teach us!!
InternalCompass 8 months ago
@InternalCompass Is that you best response? I was waiting on some scientific stuff but this is just blah, blah, blah...
I assume you are a humanist/naturalist? If so you are believing a logical fallacy. Nature was created by the big bang just as the laws of physics were. So nature is not the answer to anything that has to do with the origin of life or the universe etc.
Really, the one that has to think is you. Use your brain cause that is why God gave you one.
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz Science? Reality? I now understand how much you value NOT THINKING, ie 'faith' AKA 'blind ignorance'…
Why would I or anyone else attempt to waste time speaking a language that the ignorant moron willfully and pridefully proclaims false from a foundational ignorance?
Why not admit that your 'faith' is not based in any observable reality, it's just blind and ignorant (I mean pure and from Jesus), but of course that is why your Bible promises heaven for blind and ignorant faith.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@InternalCompass "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"
dannywizz 8 months ago
@dannywizz Have you ever read the word 'irony'?
InternalCompass 7 months ago
I think this atheist may understand the practice of prayer better than most spiritual people...sad.
M3PanoS 8 months ago
@M3PanoS - Well thanks, I think. Peace and happy human interactions to you.
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
Good advice.
Comp1337e 8 months ago
You are a true friend in every sense of the word. This may be lead your friend down an unexpected path. My divorce is what led me to atheism. Mind you, my divorce did not CAUSE me to become atheist. But rather it sent me down a path that eventually led me to atheism.
Haywerth 8 months ago
Obviously you are a real friend. I watched the video twice and didn't hear you say that you had told your friend that you were not a believer. If you do stay close to your friend in order to help her as you have said, don't you think this will come up again? You really should tell her where you stand as regards prayer and explain that you will do anything else for her. After all, if her god is real, he won't be moved by unfelt words, And your friend might think her god was moving - using - you.
Largo64 8 months ago
That was very nice.
jojokerus 8 months ago
Suppose she said "Ok, please kill my husband." You would not hesitate to deny her request. Same with praying. She asked for something immoral and dishonest from you.
farvision 8 months ago
so well said!
jjjohn 8 months ago
Great advice. Great video.
I hope your friend moves through her divorce as smoothly as possible.
R1Gami 8 months ago
when this happens i always tell then that i will keep you in my thoughts.
AnUglyAmerican 8 months ago
Atheist means NO GOD. A--> NO Theist--> GOD. What would an atheist be if there really was no GOD?
LifesVideos 8 months ago
Comment removed
magreggins 8 months ago
@LifesVideos Atheist means not one who believes in a god or gods. A –> not – Theist –> one who believes in a god or gods. An atheist would remain an atheist despite the actual existence of a god or gods.
magreggins 8 months ago
@LifesVideos
An atheist is still an atheist even when God doesn't exists just as a theist is still a theist even if God doesn't exist.
Kind of like right now.
coreygames 8 months ago
You have effectively resolved your dilemma in the most responsible way I can imagine! Its very encouraging to know there are voices of reason and compassion such as yours out there! All the best to you and your friend!
samuski36 8 months ago
BEAUTIFUL!
2020pfw 8 months ago
Smart girl. Best wishes to your dilemma and your girlfriend's challenge. Peace.
EV4UTube 8 months ago
Rude to ask non-believers to pray.
Iamfatbrain 8 months ago
I just wish, (not Pray) that just one of my four Sisters, was as smart as you. All, they think about is god. And it finally drove me away. Could not take it anymore. But, life goes on. Now I wonder, if they ever miss me in there life. It's been 2 years. Never hear from them, so I guess not. God turned them into some fine People.
gettingolder2 8 months ago 4
@gettingolder2 I am not sure how to take your comment. At the end you say that God turned them into fine people. Being sarcastic since you havent heard from them in 2 years. Yet you say it was their constant belief in God that drove YOU away because YOU could not take it anymore. And yet they have not heard from YOU in 2 years. Maybe you cant take it anymore, but you should call them on holidays and birthdays,etc. Just sayin
theshadowify 8 months ago
What if she meant prey? Go stalk somebody for her. It was a spoken conversation, so you can say that's what you thought she meant.
PluralOfEverything 8 months ago 7
This is the best advice I ever heard. Pray=action.
I never liked to pretend to pray, because it feels like lying to those people because I pretend.
obaeyens 8 months ago
You are doing the absolute right thing.
ThieleM 8 months ago
There was a study that showed that those who were prayed for, but didn't know it, showed no improvement over those who were not prayed for. The same study showed that those who thought they were being prayed for, fared worse.
JuryDutySummons 8 months ago
beautifully said.
heatherlynblue 8 months ago
I will pray to my mighty Flying Spaggetti Monster and to my Pink Unicorn in garden and to the Dragons in my Garage to help your friend. Good luck to her!!
Neueregel 8 months ago
Beautifully said. I've got similar sentiments about prayer - I don't mind it so long as you do it on your feet and not on your knees. I think that the comfort of being prayed for is feeling less alone, knowing that other people love you and want to help. Everyone should be so lucky as to have a kind and thoughtful friend like you at their side.
durtygrrrl 8 months ago
I'm sure what you have to offer is worth more than a million prayers and it's free.
I'm suppose afterall you friend is quite a lucky person, I wonder if she understands it.
saintpine 8 months ago
You're doing the right thing. Just be there for her, and be the good friend you seem to be.
BitterCanuck 8 months ago
RF, I like your kind of prayer. You're a good person :) .
Jaybird196 8 months ago
I feel the same, Action not some....procrastinating prayer. You're the sweetest friend out there :-D
ThinkMinding 8 months ago
I am an atheist and I am not ashamed to pray:
Dear Richard Dawkins, who art in Oxford, please send me a hundred dollars, amen.
(It should work sometime)
sapunec7854 8 months ago
Fantastic. ^.^
stealthbadger 8 months ago
I wholeheartedly agree.
MtlRedAtheist 8 months ago
this makes me think of something that one of my pastors used to say and that is that if we dont (act) god wont... that was a "moment in christianity" for me because it made me realize that god NEVER "acts" independently of our actions.
lambchopxoxo 8 months ago
Excellent consideration of a prickly point. I've run across the same issue myself, and I like the way you worked this through.
SmilingSkeptic 8 months ago
Be the prayer.
You have a Carl Sagan monument too!
Peace to you as well.
WilliamPbrane 8 months ago
I once heard a black baptist preacher say that angels aren't around to do God's work, that we had to do it. I took his message to be that praying for divine help was useless and that it was up to us. He wanted his congregation to ACT! I took it as a sign that certain prayer doesn't work. I was a teenager.
zeek72358 8 months ago
Action is not prayer. Does this friend know that you are an atheist? If so, just remind her of that. If not, tell her you are and ask her for something else you could do for her.
As you have correctly surmised an atheist cannot do anything that could be defined as prayer. So either your friend was being disengenuous and trying to trick you into theism or she doesn't know. Tell her and be done with it. Your integrity and compassion are touching, but your guilt is misplaced.
JediVerse 8 months ago
Your friend seems to be a theist so part of her distress could be that she feels
that her god has left her on her own.
What better opportunity could you get to explain to her that the reason prayers don't work is that no gods exists.
jipersson 8 months ago
Well said. Damn! I like you....
Nhurm 8 months ago
You had me going until half way through; I thought you were going to pray. And it's not unheard of for an atheist to 'pray' for a loved one or dear friend when asked to do so by them. It sure puts us in an awkward situation the first time. What I've learned is to ask the afflicted one "What, in MY power can I do for you?" And this could be many things from cutting their grass, cleaning the house or grocery shopping, etc. I've been burned only once by a theist that I helped.
BarbosaUral 8 months ago
well done....
alot of logic for only one person
keep it up
ComeonSense1 8 months ago
"I pray with my legs." There is a Bulgarian proverb, which says "Your vineyard needs a hoe (digging, work), not prayer."
dewinthemorning 8 months ago
great vid i totaly agree prayer is a comfort for some in times of trouble so its best not to judge cause i care for them but to my self its too much like useless begging haveing them in my thoughts and being there when they need it fills that void that the useless habbit of prayer/begging did
fallbread 8 months ago
I'm with you.
6u6u7o 8 months ago
Amen sister, Amen. ;o)
CountSpanku1a 8 months ago
Wow.
thatsnotagoodidea 8 months ago
I don't get asked to pray too much, living in a pretty non religious country, but I go by the same rule when someone I care about is in need. providing actual help, if only in the form of conversation, being there and showing that I care, is what friends do. That's the duty attached to that title. "I'll pray for you" is a cop-out.
PanWolven 8 months ago
Exactly what I do, I neither say I will or refuse. Great video, very well said. Thanks! :)
brklynusa 8 months ago
"If someone asks you to pray...
...BE the prayer"
Well said!
AvatarZ 8 months ago
While I agree with you, I think prayer is a form of accepting your situation, it's telling yourself that "if it doesn't change it was meant to be". I think the most important thing you could tell your friend is to get off her ass and do something about it, prayer is for victims.
Philosification 8 months ago
Very wise.
Thank you.
SamWiseGingy 8 months ago
You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO awesome that HURTS.
TemporalOnline 8 months ago
Great video and ultimately a great philosophy!
flyingfisbeefilms 8 months ago
RF - this is why i look forward to your videos. you expound "humanism" in the broadest, grandest sense of the word. my best wishes for you and your friend. ciao.
6ganey9 8 months ago
There's a passage from on of Paul Tillich's sermons that this reminds me of: " Another man was asked whether he believed in God, and he answered, 'I don’t know, but if something very good happens to me, I need someone to whom I can give thanks.'" I read this as I was losing my faith in Christianity, and it began to be my new conception of praying. I don't think there's literally a person out there to whom I owe thanks, but I have this thankfulness for the good things in life, and I have to thank
colossus999 8 months ago
When mum (Christian) asks me to me to say grace at the dinner table, I do.
However I choose my words wisely. Eg:
"Thank you to the farmers who grew and sold this food and thank you mum for cooking it tonight. The end."
Bzeager 8 months ago
The best solution is praying with your feet, as you said, do something! However, tell your friend you will pray for her and then do it. Saying a prayer for a friend in no way changes your beliefs or lack thereof.
Orson1981 8 months ago
I suppose if I had been in your shoes I would have told your friend that I was a non-believer and didn't believe in the power of prayer, and then I would have gone on to tell her the rest of what you said in your video. In other words, I would have told her that she could count on me to be there when she needed me, and that I thought my friendship and emotional support would be more valuable to her than my prayers.
comingatchu 8 months ago 2
So many times Christians or any variety of theists think that whatever solution their religion provides cannot be accomplished as an atheist. Time and again atheists show this to not be true as you have just done. In fact I would say your solution is incomparably better.
I wish you had more videos. If you ever come across another atheist solution to a problem theists think only they have a solution, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Agnosgnosia 8 months ago
The torment of your conflict is intensely familiar for me.
But, I'll assert that there is no-one more spiritual than an Atheist that has never failed God - Since God is inseparable from truth and to unselfishly search for pure truth is to serve any God that could exist.
We didn't fail God - God failed us - our loyalty, devotion and unflinching integrity to 'Truth/God' is what lead us to this destination we did not choose.
You are an Atheist because of your honesty, integrity and humanity...
InternalCompass 8 months ago
... never forget your unflinching devotion to truth and never let anyone degrade it.
As a devote seeker of Truth/God I was born Mormon, and quickly found it to be bullshit, then I moved on to the other Abrahamic religions and I was quickly disappointed.
I was intrigued with Eastern Religion and Eastern Philosophy and finally found honesty and truth within Zen Buddhism and I’ve spent years living in Asia and studying from the source directly...
InternalCompass 8 months ago
Ultimately I’m Atheist, but I’m deeply Spiritual in the human sense while I’m a pure Metaphysical Naturalist in the ultimate sense.
If you’ve not read much of Sam Harris, I hope you’ll consider it, because you may be surprised to know that prayer and meditation can be amazing tools to dive into and navigate the untold depths of our own natural neurobiology, with complete disbelief in any god or magic, but accepting the nature and pathology of our deeply social, spiritual and loving nature.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
You may pray as an Atheist to your own 'soul' and find depths of wisdom and beauty you could never consciously access any other way.
InternalCompass 8 months ago
@InternalCompass - I'm very interested in what you've said about Harris' thoughts about meditation. Thanks for stirring that curiosity in me again. I do look back on my history of praying and realize that *something* I did, sometimes when I prayed, helped me calm myself enough to realize 'answers' I assumed were coming from without, but which were actually coming from within.
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
In a situation like this when I am asked to say a prayer for someone, I usually tell the person asking that I will. It gives them immediate consolation and a feeling of support. Now the extent, duration, and focus of my "prayers" are personal only to me, and something I would do while alone. You're right though, showing your support by physically and emotionally being there for the person is always the best choice.
mrbr549 8 months ago
@mrbr549 - I've done that several times, too. The farther I get away from theism, though, the harder it is to say those words. Also, the fewer people who ask it of me. Thanks for giving me a glimpse of how you deal with this.
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
@ReligiousFiction If the person you care about believes asking others to pray for them whilst *refusing* other forms of help is good, than tacit acceptance is "giving" them the help they seek. I always think accepting "pray for me" requests is ethical because they are saying in effect: do "nothing" for me, so I have no ethical problem is saying "sure" (I'll do nothing). Then, I go on being available for *real* help as in your "be the prayer" example, which is what really matters.
jonstewartfanboy 8 months ago
Very nicely addressed.
wavymavy 8 months ago
I admire you so much for this video, and have shared it on my Facebook page with family and friends. I hope as many of them as possible see it.
zebruh 8 months ago
@zebruh - Thank you so much for sharing, Zebruh <3
ReligiousFiction 8 months ago
I’ve found that sometimes the most important thing you can do for someone in emotional pain, is show them the light at the end of the tunnel.
tex959 8 months ago
I hope things work out for your friend.
TheSH1N1GAM1 8 months ago
Nice words.
bobster451 8 months ago
The situation: highly sensitive.
The request: Please pray for me.
The response: My thoughts are definitely with you. NOW... is there anything I can DO to help?
AncientAtheist 8 months ago 2