1966 Oldsmobile Toronado Pike's Peak Hill Climb 425 Rocket

[dolafson]

I had a 68 Toronado back in the late 80s. It was a fast car. I could get the tires to sqwak shifting into 3rd at 60mph. Torque steer wasn't an issue but keeping tread on the front tires was. I miss it :( Many a 5.0L mustang saw my tail lights.

[caleb6868]

I'm told these were fab in the snow.

[nameUnavailab1e]

I bet that this thing torque steered like mad....

[AvivaAllegro]

@nameUnavailab1e

Actually, torque steer is related to suspension geometry rather than outright power. The FWD Eldorado and Toronado had theirs in check, so torque steer is almost non-existent.

[VAspeed3]

Back in the day, FWD made the Toro' the best car you could get for towing your skiboat. No getting stuck on a slick ramp with the rear wheels spinning like everybody else! 4WD was rare (only for clunky pickup trucks that nobody wanted in those days) and AWD hardly even existed yet on anything big enough to use for towing.

[desotoragtop]

I love the music choice too. Considering the handling charactistics of a 66 Toro another good choice of music would have been "The Pusher"!!

The Unser's owned Pikes Peak for many years. I miss seeing them race.

[carsnbikes999]

@vistacruiser67 Thanks for the wild PP video!!!! A buddy of mine had me go look at a 66 Toro "barn find for sale' this past weekend. Within 60 seconds I knew this dusty, rusty ride was too far gone to make it worthwhile($) to do a full resto on. No deal. I dig the styling of the early models(THANK YOU GM) but never looked at them as a hi performance car, much less a serious race car, taking class wins @ Pikes Peak!! That barn fresh Olds would make a cool Louie Unser replica!!!!!

[rotaxint8]

Could you imagine the torque steer?

[ruggs1515]

i would have to say that i like RWD cars better, but the Toronado is in such a class of its own... i like the fact that it is FWD.. my dad and i are restoring one and i have to say... THAT IS MY FAVORITE CAR OF ALL TIME.... it just gets into your bloodstream and every single angle that you look at it, it just looks like a different car... drives so so smooth...

[jakeboston1]

@ruggs1515 i love how they were the building block to several cars, and were a class of their own like you said.

[karnutz]

In 1966, American automakers didn't need to build 4-banger FWD cars. Roads were wide and gasoline was cheap, and we hadn't yet mucked up our relationships with the oil producers in the Middle East to the extend our old-world allies had.

Kudos to Olds for building a fast, stylish car. If it had a major drawback, it was so-so braking. The Toronado also offered 3-abreast seating front and rear, and was damned sharp looking, to boot.

[Mccabone]

Nothing like seeing almost 5,000 pounds at speed!

[andy26111]

first front wheel drive car cool

[kassandrasduplex]

@andy26111 Auburn Cord 1936 first successful fron twheel drive car, and yes, it was American. Made in Indiana I believe. We developed front wheel drive long before the Japs could make a decent transmission!

[vistacruiser67]

@kassandrasduplex Not to mention Oldsmobile pioneered the automatic transmission in the 40s with the hyrdramatic beating out Buick Dynoflow. One of the many things GM continues to use after Oldsmobile's demise.

[kassandrasduplex]

@vistacruiser67 Yes I forgot and should be tarred and feathered because hanging on my wall about ten feet from me is my Grandfather's "Strato-Flight" Hydramatic Transmission certificate of education from the Pontiac Division of General Motors! (Dated 1956) Fully FOUR speed automatic, the very first successful automatic ever (developed I believe by Cadillac but used and perfected by Oldsmobile first on the road. I just hate it when people go bananas over the Japa-Crates.

[vistacruiser67]

@andy26111 First postwar front wheel drive car.

[Stuntman175]

@vistacruiser67 First postwar AMERICAN front wheel drive car. Before that, in Europe we had the Citroën 2CV and the Citroën Traction Avant in the late 40's, both FWD cars preceding the Toronado by almost 20 years.

[vistacruiser67]

@Stuntman175 What about the American Cord of the 30's? We dont get many Citroens over here. I think they stop importing them over here in 1973 and they never were really populous here. The 66 Oldsmobile Toronado is often compared to the Cord from the 30s. Olds engineered the car well to have 385 hp and 475 lbs of torque on those front wheels. It opened the flood gates of American front wheel drive to later come in the 80s.

[Stuntman175]

@vistacruiser67 I recognize the existence of the Cord 810, it was a revolucionary car in it's time. I was just saying that the Toronado wasn't the first postwar FWD car, because there was a lot of cars in Europe that are FWD, and came out after the WW2, Alec Issigonis's Mini springs to mind.

[vistacruiser67]

@Stuntman175 Well how about the first postwar V-8 front wheel drive car? Which I guess would only include a handful of front drive V-8s ever made since. The Cadillac Eldorado of 1967 and the much later Buick Riviera of 1979. Olds had an engineering triumph in 1966 to place that much engine and torque over those front wheels. The Toronado brought front wheel drive from ash heap of the 30s Cord to the prominence it became in the 80s in US cars. Many people over here hate front wheel drive.

[Stuntman175]

@vistacruiser67 Sure, i can live with that, altough i think it's unecessary to have a V8 powering the front wheels. Good for drag racing, but little else going for it. Big iron block V8's make them front heavy and understeer like crazy. The best thing for a FWD is a small (2.5 liters tops.) engine pushed back into the firewall to help with the weight distribution, a limited slip differential and some sticky rubber to help rearrange your internal organs when cornering :P

[Stuntman175]

@vistacruiser67 I can't speak for the Cobalt since it's not a GM model sold in Europe, but for what i've seen, it's quite a screamer. It did very well on the Nurburgring, only being beaten by a Renault Megane R26r, which is a lightweight, stripped out version of the R26. The Cobalt is a 4 seater coupe which is probably quite a bit heavier than the Megane, and it only was 2.95 seconds slower.

[Stuntman175]

@vistacruiser67 But yes, i do agree that America couldn't do a high performance 4 banger engine to save it's life (besides the EcoTec and the SRT-4's engine.) compared to Europe's hot hatches (Sport Compacts for America.) We are used to paying ridiculous amount of money for a gallon of fuel, so we started downsizing engines and adding turbos and superchargers to them to make them go fast and remain somewhat economical.

[mikethenascarfan]

ugly, these are REAL CARS, go screw yourself

[MrDirtguy01]

A friend of mine collects these cars and they are actually really cool, but uglier than the south end of a northbound hog.

[72oldscutlasssupreme]

Damn, they just don't build cars like that anymore ..

40 + years later, and there ain't nothing that even looks or built like that !

Rockets 4 EVA !

[XxTOxICiTYxX1227]

beautiful, the car the scenery the video!

[hd221813]

FWD FTW!

[retrojoet]

An AMAZING car then, and now! I can remember being a toddler back in the late 60's and being outside with my dad right after a major New Jersey blizzard. I can still see (and hear) him and all the other neighbors struggling to dig out and no one could get their cars to GO, even with tire chains. I remember the sound of a car coming and it went past everyone rolling like an express train. It was a new '67 Toronado and man, were all the dudes cussing him out of jealousy!

[pipeorganistken]

The 63-65 Buick Riviera, 66-67 Toronado and the 67-70 Cadillac Eldorado were all designs of GM Genius Bill Mitchell. The handling fable came from the fact that in 1966 nobody was used to the different techniques used with FWD in performance driving. There was also a drag car called the "Terrifying Toronado" which used teh same drive train (twin engines) front and rear. It made history.

[fixdaserver]

how cool! thanks for posting.

[arguswil]

my uncle has one back in the day and he said the car whould never ever get stuck in the snow and it hauled ass and since my uncle was like 6.3 and 350 pounds he loved the space in the front seat and how the tornado had no hump in the middle of the flooor.. he said it was defnatly a fat mans car LOL

[coopersuperfastguy]

and now 79% of vehicles are front wheel drive lol

[Dakotaz98]

Good video, and what song is this?

[vistacruiser67]

Cream Live SITTING ON TOP OF THE WORLD

[Echeque5]

coop - Most vehicles are front wheel drive now because the government forces it down our throats, not because it's better, which it's not.

[cerwinvegafan]

explain

[fallwellnowinhell]

Huh? You are a moron. There are no gov't regs to make cars front wheel drive.

[Echeque5]

fallwell-There is no call to be nasty and call someone nasty names.There is indeed big government regulations to make cars front wheel drive; the Corporate Average Fuel Economy laws, or CAFE.This forces vehicle manufacturers to increase the average fuel economy of the vehicles they sell, or else face millions of dollars in fines from the federal government.The most cost effective and easiest way to improve the fuel economy of a vehicle, is to reduce its weight. Front wheel drive reduces weight.

[WestCoastJC]

so why do you say then it's not better than rear wheel drive. I'd say that's very important!

and good luck when driving one of these old rear wheel drive cars without electronic support in the wintertimes! yeaaah... MUCH better than those front wheelies^^

[Echeque5]

@WestCoastJC - With the proper tires on, indeed they are. Much safer, more predictable handling.

[WestCoastJC]

I don't know what tires you have...But it's a fact that FWD is safer on snow. Maybe you can predict your oversteering car better - but that's not safer ;-) I actually also like RWD more. But being objective I have to admit it has some significant shortcomings.

Well... with ESP there isn't too much of a difference left^^

[Echeque5]

@WestCoastJC - Front wheel drive safer in the snow? Wow. I've driven both and I'll take a rear wheel drive with good snow tires over an understeering front wheel drive car any day of the week.

[fallwellnowinhell]

@Echeque5 "There is indeed big government regulations to make cars front wheel drive;" Bullshit... there is no Federal regulation that requires front wheel drive. You are ignorant.

[Echeque5]

@fallwellnowinhell -There is no need for the childish, vulgar, verbal vomit language and no on appreciates it. Secondly, federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy laws, (or C.A.F.E.), that were rammed down our throats via a liberal/socialist democrat Congress, punish car manufacturers millions of dollars if their cars fail to attain federally mandated fuel economy goals. The easiest and most cost effective way to improve the fuel economy of a vehicle is by *reducing its weight*. Rear wheel drive..

[OsbornTramain]

@Echeque5 Fallwellnoinhell is correct, everything you said is incorrect. There is no regulation to make front drive cars directly or indirectly. I have to strain to think of any US made cars that are even indeed now front wheel drive. In the last decade, we've seen most cars shift back to rear wheel drive. I'm speaking of main stream cars. Ford Taurus, Dodge Charger, Toyota Camry, Caddy's are all rear wheel drive now.

[Echeque5]

@OsbornTramain - Federal Corporate Average Fuel Economy laws, (or C.A.F.E.), that were rammed down our throats via a liberal/socialist democrat Congress, punish car manufacturers millions of dollars if their cars fail to attain federally mandated fuel economy goals. The easiest and most cost effective way to improve the fuel economy of a vehicle is by *reducing its weight*. Rear wheel drive vehicles weigh much more than front wheel drive vehicles, because rear wheel drive has a very long....

[OsbornTramain]

@Echeque5 so that begs the question, why aren't there more front wheel drive cars on the road? The cafe standards were only just recently raised, they had been in place since the late 70's and early 80's. Everyone exceeded those standards easily. Which then begs the question, how can you say that those laws INDIRECTLY cause manufacturers to make front wheel drive cars..when almost nobody makes front wheel drive cars???? All the popular cars (with the exception of mini vans ) are rear wheel

[Echeque5]

@OsbornTramain - Most cars on the road *are* front wheel drive. The top ten best selling cars in the U.S.A. are #1 - Ford F-Series, (a *truck*, not a car). #2 - Toyota Camry, (fwd). #3 - Honda Accord, (fwd). #4 - Chevy Silverado, (another truck). #5 - Honda Civic, (fwd), #6 - Chevy Cruze, (fwd). #7- Chevy Malibu, (fwd). #8-Toyota Corolla, (fwd). #9-Hyundai Elantra, (front wheel drive). #10-Hyundai Sonata, (fwd). All the cars in the top 10 sold are *all front wheel drive*. Google it.

[Echeque5]

@OsbornTramain - Let me take a guess here; you're a liberal/socialist/democrat who thinks big government has all the answers, people are too stupid to take care of themselves and need a federal babysitter?

[OsbornTramain]

@Echeque5 I voted for Bush, Bush and Reagan, McCain and Dole. Rather than call me names and divert attention from you incorrect statements, stick to the facts. There are no laws requiring front wheel drive. I do own a 66 Toronado and my only interest here is to correct your outrageous and inaccurate statements. I'm an auto historian and former employee of Chrysler, My youtube page has had over 2 million hits. You're wrong, I'm right as are others that have commented on your strings.

[Echeque5]

@OsbornTramain - Sir, I didn't call you any names at all. I asked you a question, which would reveal your core belief's, that's all. My statements are 100% correct, I've backed them up as well. Most cars on the road today are front wheel drive, as the facts clearly state. C.A.F.E. laws have strongly encouraged vehicle manufacturers to use the front wheel drive platform, as it greatly helps increase fuel economy and that's a fact Jack. :)

[Echeque5]

@OsbornTramain - Oh, and your profile says you are accountant, so an accountant for an automotive company not realizing that most cars on the road are front wheel drive might not be surprising. :)

[Echeque5]

@fallwellnowinhell ...vehicles weigh much more than front wheel drive vehicles, because rear wheel drive has a very long and heavy driveshaft, along with a very heavy rear axle. Front wheel drive eliminates both of these components, saving a lot of weight and improving fuel economy so vehicle manufacturers can attain the liberal/socialist democrat mandated C.A.F.E. standards. So yes indeed big government regulations forced vehicle manufacturers into the front wheel drive platform.

[KingofComputing]

@fallwellnowinhell no front wheel drive is lighter than rwd setups you sir are the ignorant one here. and an idiot. If it weren't for the fucking government regulations and the CAFE regulations and standards we would still have all the rear wheel drive vehicles we loved.

[LeviMan2001]

good music, cool video too.

[tingokuman]

i have alot of respect for this guy it takes some Ba%#s to drive that boat up pikes peak.i love toronados

[yaiknowscrewme]

iam sitting on top of the worlldddd ..nice :)

[Detoyato]

Many people say Front Wheel Drive Cars dont handle very well but thats because they are only thinking about acceleration. FF cars handle extremly well at speed like that Toronado.

[Echeque5]

Detoyato - All else being equal, front wheel drive doesn't handle as well as rear wheel drive. With FWD, the front tires are overloaded and the car is ubalanced. The finest, best handling cars in the world are all rear wheel drive or all wheel drive with a not a front wheel drive car amongst them; Jaguar, BMW, Porsche, Audi, Lotus, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Corvette, Aston Martin, etc., etc.

[Detoyato]

Well I do Stand Corrected coz now that we own 2 80's (Japanese Ecoboxes :C ) Rear Drive Cars. But Back then comparing the Toronado with a similarly sized similarly powered RWD car on the loose Surface It will come out on top.

[CheersAndGears]

@Echeque5 Audis are all front bias.

The Cobalt SS is FWD and set records on the Nurburgring beating out many RWD cars.

[Echeque5]

@CheersAndGears - Audi's are all wheel drive. The Cobalt is a mass produced economy car and isn't a supercar.

[CheersAndGears]

Audis in the US are all wheel drive. Check out their lineup in the EU. You can buy a FWD Audi A4, A6, or A8 in Germany.

Who cares if the Cobalt SS is a mass produced car? It still beat things like the E92 335i, the 350Z, the Caymen S, the Porsche Boxter.... around the Nurburgring.

[Stuntman175]

@CheersAndGears Now the fastest FWD car in the Nurburgring is the Renault R26r lapping the track in 8:16:90 beating the Cobalt SS by a little under 3 seconds

[vistacruiser67]

@Stuntman175 Cobalts suck. America never could make a decent 4 cylinder performance engine. Olds tried with the Quad 4 in the late 80s near the time they were forced to quit making V-8s.

[hoffmann9471]

Great film. Most legendary Olds of all times. Also the landscape info in the middle-part of the film is interesting for an European. History....

[dirt4breakfast]

What a great piece of history. Dick Sanborn and Louie Unser are Pike Peak legends. I especially like the interview with Louie Unser. "When your driving a race car.., your just in another world. Your in a world all by yourself. And its a question of whether you can master the car that your driving or if it will take advantage of you. Its a challenge I think.... It just does something to you, it tests you or you couldn't be silly enough to do it year after year if it wasn't."

[vistacruiser67]

I think thats a young Bobby Unser in that first Toronado they show( the reddish colored Toronado). It was silent footage so we dubbed music over it.

[popey111]

Great car. Great band.

[raconter1]

A worthy accomplishment,,good things actually happened at GM in those days! :) Jack

[KiLaMaker]

Too bad we don't get to hear the engine music, instead.

The Toro gradually gets asthmatic with altitude. They ought to try it again either with a compressor or an electronic fuel injection

[vistacruiser67]

That first segment was silent footage so I dubbed music over it.

[buxongs]

Dad had a '66 Olds 98 Luxury Sedan with a 425 4-barrel.Big car,,,,HUGE power!! So much compression that it labored with a fresh battery to turn over at start. Rocket is a good way to describe it. Fast as hell and fun to drive. Great video of the Pike's Peak climb from that era. Thanks for posting that.

By the way,,,,what album was Sitting On Top Of The World, by Cream, from? Just curious.

Cheers!

[vistacruiser67]

From the 1968 album WHEELS OF FIRE. Double album with both a studio and this live version. Although Ive got the box set.

[buxongs]

I have GOT to find the box set you have! My Wheels Of Fire is just the CD version of the original and doesn't have this killer live version on it. Can you tell me the name of that boxed set? It'll be my next purchase.

Thanks,

and rock on!

[vistacruiser67]

CREAM THOSE WERE THE DAYS. 4 CD set released 1997 but still available. Contains every original album song, unreleased and outtakes. Shaped like a tall thin book with the Disraeli Gears artwork on the front.

[buxongs]

I appreciate the good info. Thanks.

I don't know how I missed that one.

Cheers!

[GMminivans9968]

Go Oldsmobile!

[olds442power]

looks like a blast

[DJM442]

this video reminds me why i love Oldsmobile so goddamn much!

[1967PmdGto]

These carburetors sure aren't having a problem at high altitude are they. The Q-jet was possibly the very 1st to have a special bowl design allowing panic stops & quick turns w/out flooding/stalling. I like how there seems to be no regulation on the spectators, he almost clipped a few at 7:44, LOL, watch them hit the dirt! The Toro was designed so well for so many things, but when they were designing her out on paper I bet this race wasn't the first thing they considered, LOL.

[OLDS98]

Thank you for posting this. I remember this from the videos too.

[hallmark45]

66'TORO'S RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pzychoballz]

Great footage. Love to see those luxury "musclecars" racing to the clouds.