It's an interesting topic. Philosophically I find the concept of free will very problematic. But, as you mention, perhaps there's a way there could be free will, and that it could be understood through quantum physics. I don't understand anything about quantum physics though.
For Jeff , i think free will is an illusion because it is a concept. Determinism would thus also be an illusion.
saying there is no freewill is a pointer..to expierience beyond
concepts.beyond duality ..the most you could say ..is theres no way of knowing who you are.......as long as you think you have freewill you are identifying with only being the body
@ronnieGilli I like having freewill, even if I'm out of my body having an 'out of body experience' I have the freewill to choose to either walk through walls or fly through the ceiling.
@80mthomas , you can never understand what i'm talking about and there is not anything to understand .Jeff is not pointing to the observer or the personality thats just another concept.in fact anything I could say is a concept.( ). and no thats not an empty space,which would just be another concept.I know it seems vague and elusive till it clicks . if you think you understood what i meant in this message delete it.-pointer, have fun flying through walls.
@litttlebittt Again: you're Bible-thumping. Gurus don't speak truth, they POINT at what is true. If you read what they're saying and what's being pointed to is seen, then you can point to it yourself without copying the words of another. If what they're pointing to is not seen, that's fine, but don't pretend you know something you don't and parrot their words as though you're saying something true.
@litttlebittt Now you're just Bible-thumping. Don't regurgitate scriptures and quotes from gurus at me if you want a real conversation; speak from what's presently seen here and now. Don't believe me, and don't believe them either. I certainly won't be swallowing any dogma or doctrine you try to sell me.
@litttlebittt No one "gets enlightened". The thing that is trying to "get enlightened" is what is awakened FROM. Thoughts appear, "Oh, maybe I'll go this way, maybe I'll go that way," there is the sensation of a pair of legs going one direction or the other, but the sensation of there being anyone doing them has fallen away. All that stuff, "manifestation of basic nature", "karma", "illusion of having no free will", makes no sense to one who has not been indoctrinated by your belief system.
Wow this video has created quite a stir hahaha... my point is eastern teaching and Buddhism, aren't beyond criticism. I've done the whole being trip, and I eventually got bored.. we are co-creators and we have been born for a purpose, I say that purpose is to make known the unknown...hahaha I know what your going to say, "but Mike there is no body there to make known the unknown, and if your getting bored that's just your mind," well actually it's my soul telling me to create something!
who cares if there is free will or not, this has nothing to do with reality. reality is right in front of your face now, freewill, determinsim.....concepts, they are irrelevent right now, right now i am typing, thats all
I'm assuming here. There may be strong sense of free will in the level it happens, but looking from center (if possible) this may be seen as an illusion, part of inevitable holomovement. We don't see all the variables in this formula of motives. Maybe that's why free will is felt. Anyhow, what we currently experience is real ENOUGH, so we should of course use free will when it's felt as a real thing.
@Taaplari yeah it's an interesting topic.. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that 'free will' is what makes this whole spiritual journey juicy and exciting...because with free will, success or failure are both possibilities. Failure is just a judgement of course, but I can either chose to evolve or I can chose to stay asleep.
ask this question: what's the next thought? no answer will arise. the mind is quiet becasue an idea asks the question. what exists can't even ask a question! powerless.
I see this as an exciting event and I love the young fresh minds that bring this to us. Bless you all because to me it makes sense. I hope that through this we maybe able to turn every single person into a master who will not have any need to master anyone and be mastered by no one and that we will have that wisdom when the time comes.
What you're talking about here really doesn't have anything to do with what Foster's pointing to, at all. This talk about free will, manifestation, awakening, there being "something beyond ourselves", really doesn't make sense once what Jeff's pointing to has been seen.
@80mthomas You're not hearing his words at all. I'd just really listen to a lot of what he's saying, and read or listen to more nondual teachings. From the perspective of nonduality neither determinism nor free will are nonsensical notions. For free will to exist you need a separate individual to be moving around in the world making decisions; for determinism to exist you need a future to exist to be pre-ordained for said individual. Neither of these things have any reality outside of the mind.
you are not a person who obseves. There is no person and observing whta happens is self shining.....no one doing it. Can you stop observing the thoughts? Now, I use the word ´you ´cause langauge has to be used here, but basically what I am pointing to is that talking happens, writing this is happening......no supreme Being in the sky doing stuff. There is only doing, life, what you see infront of you righ tnow.
@Advaitaification Ahh waking life, I love that movie...so he'd rather be a gear in a big machine... I rather be a free, infinite and sovereign being.
@80mthomas He says he'd rather be a gear than a probabilistic randomness, but yeah me too, and yeah its a great movie, one of my all time favorites in fact.
@Advaitaification I've manifested things just by focusing on a symbol of what it is that I want. For you it may be a theory but for me it has become my truth and it's these experiences which inspires me to speak of quantum physics.
@80mthomas Nonduality isn't something you can pick the parts you like out of it. Though I think you may have misunderstood what was being said, nonduality implies that the sense of 'you' as a human being that can choose is just a delusion, in that 'you' cannot have choice because 'you' are everything, 'you' are reality, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, and the idea that reality can make decisions, just doesn't make sense. I don't necessarily believe this but thats the message.
It's an interesting topic. Philosophically I find the concept of free will very problematic. But, as you mention, perhaps there's a way there could be free will, and that it could be understood through quantum physics. I don't understand anything about quantum physics though.
For Jeff , i think free will is an illusion because it is a concept. Determinism would thus also be an illusion.
Jardarny 6 months ago
its a pointer, not a belief
saying there is no freewill is a pointer..to expierience beyond
concepts.beyond duality ..the most you could say ..is theres no way of knowing who you are.......as long as you think you have freewill you are identifying with only being the body
ronnieGilli 7 months ago
@ronnieGilli I like having freewill, even if I'm out of my body having an 'out of body experience' I have the freewill to choose to either walk through walls or fly through the ceiling.
80mthomas 7 months ago
@80mthomas , you can never understand what i'm talking about and there is not anything to understand .Jeff is not pointing to the observer or the personality thats just another concept.in fact anything I could say is a concept.( ). and no thats not an empty space,which would just be another concept.I know it seems vague and elusive till it clicks . if you think you understood what i meant in this message delete it.-pointer, have fun flying through walls.
ronnieGilli 7 months ago
@litttlebittt You do not know Foster's state any more than you know Jourdain's.
Forkfoot 10 months ago
@litttlebittt Two things: (1) Chill out. (2) Get back to me when you've seen what I'm talking about and feel like having a real conversation.
Forkfoot 10 months ago
Comment removed
Forkfoot 10 months ago
@litttlebittt Again: you're Bible-thumping. Gurus don't speak truth, they POINT at what is true. If you read what they're saying and what's being pointed to is seen, then you can point to it yourself without copying the words of another. If what they're pointing to is not seen, that's fine, but don't pretend you know something you don't and parrot their words as though you're saying something true.
Forkfoot 10 months ago
@litttlebittt Now you're just Bible-thumping. Don't regurgitate scriptures and quotes from gurus at me if you want a real conversation; speak from what's presently seen here and now. Don't believe me, and don't believe them either. I certainly won't be swallowing any dogma or doctrine you try to sell me.
Forkfoot 10 months ago
@litttlebittt No one "gets enlightened". The thing that is trying to "get enlightened" is what is awakened FROM. Thoughts appear, "Oh, maybe I'll go this way, maybe I'll go that way," there is the sensation of a pair of legs going one direction or the other, but the sensation of there being anyone doing them has fallen away. All that stuff, "manifestation of basic nature", "karma", "illusion of having no free will", makes no sense to one who has not been indoctrinated by your belief system.
Forkfoot 10 months ago
Wow this video has created quite a stir hahaha... my point is eastern teaching and Buddhism, aren't beyond criticism. I've done the whole being trip, and I eventually got bored.. we are co-creators and we have been born for a purpose, I say that purpose is to make known the unknown...hahaha I know what your going to say, "but Mike there is no body there to make known the unknown, and if your getting bored that's just your mind," well actually it's my soul telling me to create something!
80mthomas 1 year ago
@80mthomas you have a verry interesting way of expression man! i like you.
youve got a brilliant mind!
TheSpiritualhealing 9 months ago
who cares if there is free will or not, this has nothing to do with reality. reality is right in front of your face now, freewill, determinsim.....concepts, they are irrelevent right now, right now i am typing, thats all
bay751 1 year ago
I'm assuming here. There may be strong sense of free will in the level it happens, but looking from center (if possible) this may be seen as an illusion, part of inevitable holomovement. We don't see all the variables in this formula of motives. Maybe that's why free will is felt. Anyhow, what we currently experience is real ENOUGH, so we should of course use free will when it's felt as a real thing.
Sorry my bad English.
Taaplari 1 year ago
@Taaplari yeah it's an interesting topic.. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that 'free will' is what makes this whole spiritual journey juicy and exciting...because with free will, success or failure are both possibilities. Failure is just a judgement of course, but I can either chose to evolve or I can chose to stay asleep.
80mthomas 1 year ago
@80mthomas fere will? who is there to have it?
ask this question: what's the next thought? no answer will arise. the mind is quiet becasue an idea asks the question. what exists can't even ask a question! powerless.
swingtrade2 1 year ago
I see this as an exciting event and I love the young fresh minds that bring this to us. Bless you all because to me it makes sense. I hope that through this we maybe able to turn every single person into a master who will not have any need to master anyone and be mastered by no one and that we will have that wisdom when the time comes.
TEARDUCTER 1 year ago
What you're talking about here really doesn't have anything to do with what Foster's pointing to, at all. This talk about free will, manifestation, awakening, there being "something beyond ourselves", really doesn't make sense once what Jeff's pointing to has been seen.
Forkfoot 1 year ago
@Forkfoot He said that, "freewill is an illusion" this sounds like 'determinism'!?... am I taking his words out of context?
80mthomas 1 year ago
@80mthomas You're not hearing his words at all. I'd just really listen to a lot of what he's saying, and read or listen to more nondual teachings. From the perspective of nonduality neither determinism nor free will are nonsensical notions. For free will to exist you need a separate individual to be moving around in the world making decisions; for determinism to exist you need a future to exist to be pre-ordained for said individual. Neither of these things have any reality outside of the mind.
Forkfoot 1 year ago
Comment removed
Forkfoot 1 year ago
you are not a person who obseves. There is no person and observing whta happens is self shining.....no one doing it. Can you stop observing the thoughts? Now, I use the word ´you ´cause langauge has to be used here, but basically what I am pointing to is that talking happens, writing this is happening......no supreme Being in the sky doing stuff. There is only doing, life, what you see infront of you righ tnow.
KarameloKaramelo 1 year ago
Here have a look at this for starters: watch?v=GVr_MxNihkc
Advaitaification 1 year ago
@Advaitaification Ahh waking life, I love that movie...so he'd rather be a gear in a big machine... I rather be a free, infinite and sovereign being.
80mthomas 1 year ago
@80mthomas He says he'd rather be a gear than a probabilistic randomness, but yeah me too, and yeah its a great movie, one of my all time favorites in fact.
Advaitaification 1 year ago
Quantum physics is far from finished, this is just a theory, please don't state it like it's fact.
Advaitaification 1 year ago
@Advaitaification I've manifested things just by focusing on a symbol of what it is that I want. For you it may be a theory but for me it has become my truth and it's these experiences which inspires me to speak of quantum physics.
80mthomas 1 year ago
@80mthomas Nonduality isn't something you can pick the parts you like out of it. Though I think you may have misunderstood what was being said, nonduality implies that the sense of 'you' as a human being that can choose is just a delusion, in that 'you' cannot have choice because 'you' are everything, 'you' are reality, consciousness, whatever you want to call it, and the idea that reality can make decisions, just doesn't make sense. I don't necessarily believe this but thats the message.
Advaitaification 1 year ago