@GaruzoSama Maher was presenting this as the way he see it and not rhetorically. Even Hitchens and other atheists are starting to admit that there is a real problem with abortion because at some point u have to admit that there is another person there. Clinton expanded abortion to include babies that are full term as long as they are killed before they exit the womb. The numbers for PBA's went from around 4k per year to over 40K.
we have worse things in this world to fix before people bitching over scrapping out some unwanted cellular matter .. starving people, war, aids, capitalism (JK), gangs, famine, water shortage, population control, slavery, human trafficking, nuclear proliferation, way too much to focus on before how to control someone's reproductive rights. If you want to argue, go to your wall, smash your face into it... I couldn't care less if someone responds trying to provoke a debate :) don't bother
@ironaddict11 Actually people r starving for political resaons mostly, corrupt governments and wars etc. The abortion issue in the west is huge morally and financially.
Doesn't it seem weird that in today's world with all of our knowledge of human biology, we delude ourselves into believing that sexual intercourse and reproduction are mutually exclusive. Our ancestors didn't have contraception so when they had at it they knew a baby would come out the other end. Yet today we consider abstinence to be an option spouted by loony religious folk. Sex and reproduction go biologically hand in hand, so if you don't want a kid, don't have sex!
@ShortytheSquirrel I'm not sure about the point u r trying to make. Sex isn't always about reproduction even for religious people. The point is that when a child is concieved it is a person.
@grfield1 To debate abortion is to miss the point entirely. Sex is for reproduction. Its an integral part of the reproductive process in humans, not to mention all other animals as well. We wouldn't be having this abortion debate if we simply accepted this biological fact and ONLY had sexual intercourse when we wanted to reproduce. That is what sex is for after all. To choose to have sex but not to have children come out of it is against the natural order and contraception is bollocks!
@ShortytheSquirrel You said it yourself. Our ancestors didn't have any contraceptive measures. We do now. Sex has changed since all those generations ago. It was never only about reproduction, it just often included that. Now we can have sex without reproducing so they don't necessarily go hand in hand at all.
@chubbm Sex evolved as a means for a male to impregnate a female and is thus an integral part of human reproduction. The pleasure we feel when engaging in sex evolved as an incentive for men and women to reproduce. This fact alone makes sex for the purpose of pleasure rather than reproduction an affront to the natural order. Sex has never changed. We are simply ignoring its true biological purpose and arrogantly trying to control a biological system millions of years in the making.
@ShortytheSquirrel Bacteria evolved to infect other organisms and parasites evolved to leech the blood and life of other organisms for their own purposes. We also engineer crops to grow better. Are you suggesting we're causing can affront to the natural order because we try to eradicate them from our lives? Yes, we're often controlling biological systems. That's what advanced human civilisation is. Don't pick sex as specifically negative for the same reason that other things are positive.
@chubbm If bacteria, (along with other organisms) did not attack and kill plants, then plants would grow out of control. Each and every organism has evolved a fine balance of strengths and weaknesses which help it to survive but also prevents it from overwhelming other organisms. The most important trait that has allowed humans to thrive is their advanced brains. We have abused this evolutionary gift however by using it to try and 1 up nature. Contraception is just one example of this.
@ShortytheSquirrel You didn't answer anything. You danced around it. Genetically modified crops that yield more harvest is humans, as you put it, 1 upping nature. Smallpox vaccines and attempting to eradicate cancer is us trying to 1 up nature. Are you arguing we should never develop any medicine? Sex is an act that's been pleasurable from the start. Now we can choose to not get pregnant. That's not bad. Something being naturally occurring isn't necessarily inherently "good" or "right".
@chubbm Naturally derived medicines can at least be proven not to have any unforeseen effects on ether the people taking them or the evolution of the pathogens they treat. The same cannot be said of synthetic medicine, as everything from autism resulting from vaccines to antibiotic resistant 'super bugs' proves. As for contraception, the catastrophic fall in birth-rates in western countries is at least in part caused by this, with unchecked liberalism being the main culprit.
@ShortytheSquirrel Vaccinations do not cause autism. This has been proven time and again. You display your deep ignorance in claiming that it does. To describe falling birth-rates as a bad thing in and of itself is ridiculous. People should not simply be birth Queens for the hive of human life. Population and its effects is should be considered, as is a person's choices for their own existence. There's nothing wrong with sex without offspring. There is nothing that is "unnatural".
@chubbm Japanese/British studies found a link between MMR vaccines and autism.
You haven't said anything concerning 'super bugs' which evolved in direct response to the antibiotics used to treat them...
When a country's birth rate falls below the number needed for it to sustain its population, leading to population decline, THAT IS A BAD THING! This is the situation in much of Europe. It is the biological responsibility of all fertile humans to procreate in order to maintain the species.
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 1): Scientific studies have proven no evidential link between vaccines and autism, backed up by court rulings. Yes, bacteria evolves. Don't use antibiotics when you don't need them. I have a severe heart condition and would be dead without antibiotics. Don't misuse antibiotics in times you don't need them and bacteria won't be over-exposed. Your computer is synthetic but you're happy to use that, although, we didn't evolve to need them. Humans just happened to make them.
@chubbm There are just as many scientific studies that say otherwise. The safety and even the full effects of long term vaccination programs is far from conclusive.
Antibiotics have been in medical use for over half a century, more than enough time for them to evolve into stronger forms, even if they were used as needed. Most infections can be dealt with by the body's immune system alone. Antibiotics simply undermine our natural defenses which ultimately makes us MORE prone to disease.
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 2) Should Stephen Hawking be told to stop communicating with his machine because his evolved vocal apparatus don't allow him to speak? No. We're not dictated in what we should do by evolution. The human population on Earth is also not at risk. Australia's population is rising, while births aren't as high as they were in older generations, due to immigration. Falling birthrates after a baby boom generation doesn't mean the species is in decline.
@chubbm Stephen Hawking's vocal chords haven't evolved, they have just stopped working due to his motor neuron disease! Evolution is a process which has gone on for almost half the earth's history, about 2 billion years! In contrast, modern humans have existed for no more that 250,000 years. It is foolhardy indeed to believe that we can do a better job than a system which has not only been around far longer than we have, but is also responsible for our very existence!
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 3) As the species isn't as risk, it shouldn't be suggested that everyone who can breed needs to. And I don't agree with the argument that anyone who biologically can have a child should have a child in all circumstances. Human society defines its own life, purpose and culture.
@chubbm We are first and foremost biological entities. ALL biological entities must procreate to survive. It is only natural then that we have built-in attractions for the opposite sex and all the tools needed to produce offspring. The entire reason we have evolved sexual organs, sexual attraction and reproductive systems is so that we can reproduce. If nature had intended sex to be just about self-indulgent pleasure than it wouldn't have added pregnancy and childbirth to the mix.
@ShortytheSquirrel The sex drive and the act provide enriching qualities to our lives, emotionally, physically as well as reproduction. Used wisely our sexual expression can be a blessing...unwisely it can be a great impediment to health and happiness.
@grfield1 Just what is 'sexual expression'? It sounds like a liberal buzzword. Yes sexual intercourse has emotional as well as physical effects but it is primarily the physical act of impregnating a female in order for her to be able to have children. What ever emotional issues sex, pregnancy and childbirth raise are irrelevant when talking about biological phenomena, which the reproductive process emphatically is and are also irrelevant when framing ethical and legal parameters.
@ShortytheSquirrel No liberal buzz words or otherwise here. I just mean that sexuality (sexual expression) is a very strong compulsion in most of ours lives regardless of the way it is expressed. In this case we r talking about the legal issues surrounding one of the outcomes of sexual expression...abortion. Yes the sex drive is primarily for producing offsrping, but it's performance is more fra reaching than just reproduction.
@grfield1 "...sexuality (sexual expression) is a very strong compulsion in most of ours [sic] lives regardless of the way it is expressed..."
Okay where do I start! First, sexuality is sexual orientation, which is not an expression but a physical and psychological predisposition to being attracted to one or both sexes. Second, the sentence is redundant (an expression is expressed). Third, the sentence contradicts itself! Is sexuality (by your definition of it) an expression or a compulsion?
@ShortytheSquirrel Sexuality is a compulsion by instinct. It has has many ways of expressing itself...by that I dont just mean homo or hetero. The expression is very broad...the expression could involve role playing...don't make me delineate further please
@grfield1 You haven't explained anything. You are just throwing terms around with little or no connection with each other. Okay, so 'sexual expression' is just a synonym for sexuality. Never mind that fact that sexuality is already synonymous with sexual orientation which is not expressed because it is innate. You claim that sexuality is expressed in different ways but then say that it is an instinctual compulsion. As I said, instincts are innate, they are followed, not expressed!
@ShortytheSquirrel What r u disagarreing with. Sex is expressed or carried out in different ways for different people...both for hetero and homo. The sex act or drive is instinctual, the way that the act is expressed varies in fgrequency and characteristically. Regardless, sex is primarily for reproduction, but is not exclusively for reproduction. Do u disagree?
@grfield1 I think we should just cut to the chase. You said in your original post that "Used wisely our sexual expression can be a blessing...unwisely it can be a great impediment to health and happiness".
So the simple question would be: is having sexual intercourse with no intention of baring children a wise use of our 'sexual expression'?
Abortion is wrong. It's also right. See, when people with different philosophies get into debates they will never agree on anything. Religious philosophy says that life has a purpose or is dependent on a higher power that has a plan for that life. In contrast, absurdism (for example) says that life is pointless and reality is a completely random mess; humans are a foreign identity in an uncaring universe. Each of these philosophies values life differently, which is KEY in the abortion issue.
@zimNvgcatsfan Right vs Wrong. I think what u r talking about is situational ethics. Is it ok to steal if I am hungry? Killing a baby is wrong....regardless of the situation. I do realize that having a baby can be a huge life changing experience for anyone....however the answer is not to kill the baby....just the way I see it.
@grfield1 Well, I respect your opinion as you have been very respectful of everyone else's opinion on this panel/video, but if I can state my own views; I believe a fetus isn't a person just because of brainwaves. I may have had brainwaves in the womb and a heartbeat, but if I were aborted, I wouldn't have existed as a person. As a personality, a mind, a soul. The fetus is a human shell, a body to be inhabited later, and taking the body away doesn't truly harm anyone, even the soul. My opinion.
@vgman94 I appreciate your comments. However when does a fetus become a person. U have to make the call. I draw the line at conception. It isnt just brainwaves, its about eye movement, sensing pain, sucking their thumbs etc...all ocurring within weeks of conception
@vgman94 I appreciate your comments. However when does a fetus become a person. U have to make the call. I draw the line at conception. It isnt just brainwaves, its about eye movement, sensing pain, sucking their thumbs etc...all ocurring within weeks of conception.
grfield1, i remember this episode. If I recall, the feminist on the panel was dumbfounded that Bill would make such an heretical observation. I guess Bill got confused for a second, and still thought he was on Politically Incorrect.
@butchieman darn I hit the vote down icon by mistake...regardless....u r right...Carol Liefer, who I think is hilarious as a comic and writer berided Bill and went on a rant how if men could get pregnant then abortion would be a sacrement. She may be right as men have historically distorted life and politics to suit themselves. Anyway u look at it, abortion is the taking of an innocent life and cannot be justified...my opinion. I am not unsympathetic to any of these women. Its just wrong.
@grfield1 right absolutes, spoken like a zealot. Wouldn't it be great if the zealots were also not hypocrites? If they were truly against anything that could lead to abortion, they would be out passing condoms and birth control pills to each and every person. Instead of calling the use of such things immoral
@Tikon2000 No use of condoms and birth control is Catholic. I have no problem with these things. I have a huge problem with killing children for convenience or any other reason.
@IamAsi94 U spelled the word spelt wrong.....grfield1 is my handle because there r so many Garfields out there already...it is a version of my real name...
I don't really care what men have to say about abortion. They're not the ones who are being told "You had sex, so know your place and get on your back, put your feet in the stirrups and prepare for twelve hours of agonizing pain while I sit back and chug a beer. Whore."
@grfield1 No but if your neighbor was inside your body and you didn't want him to be in there you have the right to remove him, even if that means he'd die. No one has the right to your body but YOU.
If the fetus has equal rights as the mother, why does the health or life of the mother even become a concern? Ectopic pregnancies with no chance of continuation and extreme risk to the mother should continue as long as there's a heartbeat, like in El Salvador. Any mother who unwittingly harms an unborn child should be tried for manslaughter or battery, whether she knew she was pregnant or not. "Fetus = Human" is a false equivalence, and a dangerous one for individual life and rights.
WTF. No one is suggesting that ectopic pregnancies should be allowed to go full term without a doctor's intervention. Did u watch the clip. An unborn child that dreams, sucks its thumb, has a heartbeat cannot be left without some rights.
I happen to agree that fetuses have some rights. I'm making the point that such rights are not equal to the mother's, else there should be no health exception to abortion (or doctor's intervention, as you euphemistically put it) and the logical consequence would be serious limits on individual rights.
dont you understand why abortion happens? why condoms exist, the cause? its a function of people, without it, without regulation of birthrates, generation after generation would be born into environments that they cant survive in, the planet would become a overpopulated diseased hell hole. especially as supply stops meeting demand
I honestly don't know what I think about abortion. I think both sides have equally good arguments. However, I think Bill Maher is one of the last people whose opinion on abortion (or any subject, for that matter) should be cited to support you thesis about it.
No, because talking to Bill Maher is a little like talking to a fourteen year old. Both are incredibly immature and don't make arguments based on thought and reasoning but on emotion and volume.
I know where u r coming from but in my world view the life of the child trumps the inconvenience of the mother. I'm not talking about real health concerns of the mother.
They are symbiotes until they can breathe on their own. Even then they are not self-aware. In fact, I would doubt most people are self-aware until well into their teens and even early twenties.
Funny u should mention that because there were actually at least 2 doctors who approached the American Medical Assoc and proposed that parents be allowed the choice to kill a child up to 9 days old if they decided that they didn't want it. That was propsed like maybe 15 years ago. Of course it was rejected, but the fact that doctors would actually propose it is alarming. Similar suggestions still come up now and again.
"It seems a little..." What characteristics do fetuses/embryos/zygotes, etc... have that we share with them, that the most base of animals do not have?
If they become aware of their surroundings, aware of their own existence, etc.... then we'll talk.
lol, funny that it was cut, probably to fit a rhetoric.
GaruzoSama 3 months ago
@GaruzoSama Maher was presenting this as the way he see it and not rhetorically. Even Hitchens and other atheists are starting to admit that there is a real problem with abortion because at some point u have to admit that there is another person there. Clinton expanded abortion to include babies that are full term as long as they are killed before they exit the womb. The numbers for PBA's went from around 4k per year to over 40K.
grfield1 3 months ago
Like George Carlin said about Conservatives, "If you're Pre-born, you're fine. If you're Pre-School, you're FUCKED".
k2kraze 6 months ago
we have worse things in this world to fix before people bitching over scrapping out some unwanted cellular matter .. starving people, war, aids, capitalism (JK), gangs, famine, water shortage, population control, slavery, human trafficking, nuclear proliferation, way too much to focus on before how to control someone's reproductive rights. If you want to argue, go to your wall, smash your face into it... I couldn't care less if someone responds trying to provoke a debate :) don't bother
ironaddict11 7 months ago
@ironaddict11 Actually people r starving for political resaons mostly, corrupt governments and wars etc. The abortion issue in the west is huge morally and financially.
grfield1 7 months ago
Doesn't it seem weird that in today's world with all of our knowledge of human biology, we delude ourselves into believing that sexual intercourse and reproduction are mutually exclusive. Our ancestors didn't have contraception so when they had at it they knew a baby would come out the other end. Yet today we consider abstinence to be an option spouted by loony religious folk. Sex and reproduction go biologically hand in hand, so if you don't want a kid, don't have sex!
ShortytheSquirrel 8 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel I'm not sure about the point u r trying to make. Sex isn't always about reproduction even for religious people. The point is that when a child is concieved it is a person.
grfield1 8 months ago
Comment removed
ShortytheSquirrel 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@grfield1 To debate abortion is to miss the point entirely. Sex is for reproduction. Its an integral part of the reproductive process in humans, not to mention all other animals as well. We wouldn't be having this abortion debate if we simply accepted this biological fact and ONLY had sexual intercourse when we wanted to reproduce. That is what sex is for after all. To choose to have sex but not to have children come out of it is against the natural order and contraception is bollocks!
ShortytheSquirrel 8 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel You said it yourself. Our ancestors didn't have any contraceptive measures. We do now. Sex has changed since all those generations ago. It was never only about reproduction, it just often included that. Now we can have sex without reproducing so they don't necessarily go hand in hand at all.
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm Sex evolved as a means for a male to impregnate a female and is thus an integral part of human reproduction. The pleasure we feel when engaging in sex evolved as an incentive for men and women to reproduce. This fact alone makes sex for the purpose of pleasure rather than reproduction an affront to the natural order. Sex has never changed. We are simply ignoring its true biological purpose and arrogantly trying to control a biological system millions of years in the making.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel Bacteria evolved to infect other organisms and parasites evolved to leech the blood and life of other organisms for their own purposes. We also engineer crops to grow better. Are you suggesting we're causing can affront to the natural order because we try to eradicate them from our lives? Yes, we're often controlling biological systems. That's what advanced human civilisation is. Don't pick sex as specifically negative for the same reason that other things are positive.
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm If bacteria, (along with other organisms) did not attack and kill plants, then plants would grow out of control. Each and every organism has evolved a fine balance of strengths and weaknesses which help it to survive but also prevents it from overwhelming other organisms. The most important trait that has allowed humans to thrive is their advanced brains. We have abused this evolutionary gift however by using it to try and 1 up nature. Contraception is just one example of this.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel You didn't answer anything. You danced around it. Genetically modified crops that yield more harvest is humans, as you put it, 1 upping nature. Smallpox vaccines and attempting to eradicate cancer is us trying to 1 up nature. Are you arguing we should never develop any medicine? Sex is an act that's been pleasurable from the start. Now we can choose to not get pregnant. That's not bad. Something being naturally occurring isn't necessarily inherently "good" or "right".
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm Naturally derived medicines can at least be proven not to have any unforeseen effects on ether the people taking them or the evolution of the pathogens they treat. The same cannot be said of synthetic medicine, as everything from autism resulting from vaccines to antibiotic resistant 'super bugs' proves. As for contraception, the catastrophic fall in birth-rates in western countries is at least in part caused by this, with unchecked liberalism being the main culprit.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel Vaccinations do not cause autism. This has been proven time and again. You display your deep ignorance in claiming that it does. To describe falling birth-rates as a bad thing in and of itself is ridiculous. People should not simply be birth Queens for the hive of human life. Population and its effects is should be considered, as is a person's choices for their own existence. There's nothing wrong with sex without offspring. There is nothing that is "unnatural".
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm Japanese/British studies found a link between MMR vaccines and autism.
You haven't said anything concerning 'super bugs' which evolved in direct response to the antibiotics used to treat them...
When a country's birth rate falls below the number needed for it to sustain its population, leading to population decline, THAT IS A BAD THING! This is the situation in much of Europe. It is the biological responsibility of all fertile humans to procreate in order to maintain the species.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 1): Scientific studies have proven no evidential link between vaccines and autism, backed up by court rulings. Yes, bacteria evolves. Don't use antibiotics when you don't need them. I have a severe heart condition and would be dead without antibiotics. Don't misuse antibiotics in times you don't need them and bacteria won't be over-exposed. Your computer is synthetic but you're happy to use that, although, we didn't evolve to need them. Humans just happened to make them.
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm There are just as many scientific studies that say otherwise. The safety and even the full effects of long term vaccination programs is far from conclusive.
Antibiotics have been in medical use for over half a century, more than enough time for them to evolve into stronger forms, even if they were used as needed. Most infections can be dealt with by the body's immune system alone. Antibiotics simply undermine our natural defenses which ultimately makes us MORE prone to disease.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 2) Should Stephen Hawking be told to stop communicating with his machine because his evolved vocal apparatus don't allow him to speak? No. We're not dictated in what we should do by evolution. The human population on Earth is also not at risk. Australia's population is rising, while births aren't as high as they were in older generations, due to immigration. Falling birthrates after a baby boom generation doesn't mean the species is in decline.
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm Stephen Hawking's vocal chords haven't evolved, they have just stopped working due to his motor neuron disease! Evolution is a process which has gone on for almost half the earth's history, about 2 billion years! In contrast, modern humans have existed for no more that 250,000 years. It is foolhardy indeed to believe that we can do a better job than a system which has not only been around far longer than we have, but is also responsible for our very existence!
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel (Part 3) As the species isn't as risk, it shouldn't be suggested that everyone who can breed needs to. And I don't agree with the argument that anyone who biologically can have a child should have a child in all circumstances. Human society defines its own life, purpose and culture.
chubbm 6 months ago
@chubbm We are first and foremost biological entities. ALL biological entities must procreate to survive. It is only natural then that we have built-in attractions for the opposite sex and all the tools needed to produce offspring. The entire reason we have evolved sexual organs, sexual attraction and reproductive systems is so that we can reproduce. If nature had intended sex to be just about self-indulgent pleasure than it wouldn't have added pregnancy and childbirth to the mix.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel The sex drive and the act provide enriching qualities to our lives, emotionally, physically as well as reproduction. Used wisely our sexual expression can be a blessing...unwisely it can be a great impediment to health and happiness.
grfield1 6 months ago
@grfield1 Just what is 'sexual expression'? It sounds like a liberal buzzword. Yes sexual intercourse has emotional as well as physical effects but it is primarily the physical act of impregnating a female in order for her to be able to have children. What ever emotional issues sex, pregnancy and childbirth raise are irrelevant when talking about biological phenomena, which the reproductive process emphatically is and are also irrelevant when framing ethical and legal parameters.
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel No liberal buzz words or otherwise here. I just mean that sexuality (sexual expression) is a very strong compulsion in most of ours lives regardless of the way it is expressed. In this case we r talking about the legal issues surrounding one of the outcomes of sexual expression...abortion. Yes the sex drive is primarily for producing offsrping, but it's performance is more fra reaching than just reproduction.
grfield1 6 months ago
@grfield1 "...sexuality (sexual expression) is a very strong compulsion in most of ours [sic] lives regardless of the way it is expressed..."
Okay where do I start! First, sexuality is sexual orientation, which is not an expression but a physical and psychological predisposition to being attracted to one or both sexes. Second, the sentence is redundant (an expression is expressed). Third, the sentence contradicts itself! Is sexuality (by your definition of it) an expression or a compulsion?
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel Sexuality is a compulsion by instinct. It has has many ways of expressing itself...by that I dont just mean homo or hetero. The expression is very broad...the expression could involve role playing...don't make me delineate further please
grfield1 6 months ago
@grfield1 You haven't explained anything. You are just throwing terms around with little or no connection with each other. Okay, so 'sexual expression' is just a synonym for sexuality. Never mind that fact that sexuality is already synonymous with sexual orientation which is not expressed because it is innate. You claim that sexuality is expressed in different ways but then say that it is an instinctual compulsion. As I said, instincts are innate, they are followed, not expressed!
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
@ShortytheSquirrel What r u disagarreing with. Sex is expressed or carried out in different ways for different people...both for hetero and homo. The sex act or drive is instinctual, the way that the act is expressed varies in fgrequency and characteristically. Regardless, sex is primarily for reproduction, but is not exclusively for reproduction. Do u disagree?
grfield1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@grfield1 I think we should just cut to the chase. You said in your original post that "Used wisely our sexual expression can be a blessing...unwisely it can be a great impediment to health and happiness".
So the simple question would be: is having sexual intercourse with no intention of baring children a wise use of our 'sexual expression'?
ShortytheSquirrel 6 months ago
Abortion is wrong. It's also right. See, when people with different philosophies get into debates they will never agree on anything. Religious philosophy says that life has a purpose or is dependent on a higher power that has a plan for that life. In contrast, absurdism (for example) says that life is pointless and reality is a completely random mess; humans are a foreign identity in an uncaring universe. Each of these philosophies values life differently, which is KEY in the abortion issue.
zimNvgcatsfan 9 months ago
@zimNvgcatsfan Right vs Wrong. I think what u r talking about is situational ethics. Is it ok to steal if I am hungry? Killing a baby is wrong....regardless of the situation. I do realize that having a baby can be a huge life changing experience for anyone....however the answer is not to kill the baby....just the way I see it.
grfield1 9 months ago
Yet Bill himself said ''I'm for abortion until the second trimester....of highschool''
And so am I.
PhantomSephiroth 11 months ago
I agree with bill maher? What?
whwsjackfrost 1 year ago
@whwsjackfrost Yeah brainwaves...heartbeat...it's a person....it's legalized murder!
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 Well, I respect your opinion as you have been very respectful of everyone else's opinion on this panel/video, but if I can state my own views; I believe a fetus isn't a person just because of brainwaves. I may have had brainwaves in the womb and a heartbeat, but if I were aborted, I wouldn't have existed as a person. As a personality, a mind, a soul. The fetus is a human shell, a body to be inhabited later, and taking the body away doesn't truly harm anyone, even the soul. My opinion.
vgman94 9 months ago
@vgman94 I appreciate your comments. However when does a fetus become a person. U have to make the call. I draw the line at conception. It isnt just brainwaves, its about eye movement, sensing pain, sucking their thumbs etc...all ocurring within weeks of conception
grfield1 9 months ago
@vgman94 I appreciate your comments. However when does a fetus become a person. U have to make the call. I draw the line at conception. It isnt just brainwaves, its about eye movement, sensing pain, sucking their thumbs etc...all ocurring within weeks of conception.
grfield1 9 months ago
grfield1, i remember this episode. If I recall, the feminist on the panel was dumbfounded that Bill would make such an heretical observation. I guess Bill got confused for a second, and still thought he was on Politically Incorrect.
butchieman 1 year ago
@butchieman darn I hit the vote down icon by mistake...regardless....u r right...Carol Liefer, who I think is hilarious as a comic and writer berided Bill and went on a rant how if men could get pregnant then abortion would be a sacrement. She may be right as men have historically distorted life and politics to suit themselves. Anyway u look at it, abortion is the taking of an innocent life and cannot be justified...my opinion. I am not unsympathetic to any of these women. Its just wrong.
grfield1 1 year ago
Bill is obviously poking fun at the ridiculous abortion propaganda posters with full gown babies on them
Marissatayla 1 year ago
@Marissatayla Bill was totally serious and received a strong rebuke form Carol Liefer right after his comment...
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 right absolutes, spoken like a zealot. Wouldn't it be great if the zealots were also not hypocrites? If they were truly against anything that could lead to abortion, they would be out passing condoms and birth control pills to each and every person. Instead of calling the use of such things immoral
Tikon2000 1 year ago
@Tikon2000 No use of condoms and birth control is Catholic. I have no problem with these things. I have a huge problem with killing children for convenience or any other reason.
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 they are not children but foetus
stanleyKubrik11 1 year ago
@stanleyKubrik11 A fertilzied egg is a person that just needs the time and a place to grow...
MyJackn 1 year ago
@MyJackn so is the sperm on my socks
IamAsi94 1 year ago
@IamAsi94 sperm are not people and they dont grow
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 So if i pump a lady full of mine, they dont grow?
LiBlub1 1 year ago
@LiBlub1 She's no lady and they dont grow unless they fertilize an egg...
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 you spelt garfield wrong
IamAsi94 1 year ago
@IamAsi94 U spelled the word spelt wrong.....grfield1 is my handle because there r so many Garfields out there already...it is a version of my real name...
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 yea you wouldnt wanna get confused
IamAsi94 1 year ago
I don't really care what men have to say about abortion. They're not the ones who are being told "You had sex, so know your place and get on your back, put your feet in the stirrups and prepare for twelve hours of agonizing pain while I sit back and chug a beer. Whore."
RedDollShoes 1 year ago
@RedDollShoes It doesn't really have to do with men or women in that sense....it's about unborn children. Abortion is evil.
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 Are you a man?
RedDollShoes 1 year ago
@RedDollShoes Yes, but like i said above, it's about the children.
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 Maybe for YOU "it's about the children" but for the women whom you want to control the bodies of, it's about freedom.
RedDollShoes 1 year ago
@RedDollShoes U can't justify kiiling a child for your freedom. Should I shoot my nieghbor because his stereo keeps me up at night?
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 No but if your neighbor was inside your body and you didn't want him to be in there you have the right to remove him, even if that means he'd die. No one has the right to your body but YOU.
RedDollShoes 1 year ago
@grfield1 Wow, that is soooooo not the same thing. But I guess in your mind there's only room for absolutes.
Tikon2000 1 year ago
@Tikon2000 When u r buying shoes there r no absolutes....when u r deciding the fate of a baby, there certainly r absolutes...:)
grfield1 1 year ago
@grfield1 well, if ur neighbour doesnt have a brain and a heart, he cant feel nor think, and hes 3 months old, go ahead.
Max10192 1 year ago
@Max10192 U should read the info about the clip. Unborn babies have a heartbeat in a few, and In a few weeks brain waves and dreams.
grfield1 1 year ago
That is hilarious how gobsmacked everyone looked by Maher saying that. I love it.
CombatSportFan 2 years ago
If the fetus has equal rights as the mother, why does the health or life of the mother even become a concern? Ectopic pregnancies with no chance of continuation and extreme risk to the mother should continue as long as there's a heartbeat, like in El Salvador. Any mother who unwittingly harms an unborn child should be tried for manslaughter or battery, whether she knew she was pregnant or not. "Fetus = Human" is a false equivalence, and a dangerous one for individual life and rights.
Lokisdottir 2 years ago
WTF. No one is suggesting that ectopic pregnancies should be allowed to go full term without a doctor's intervention. Did u watch the clip. An unborn child that dreams, sucks its thumb, has a heartbeat cannot be left without some rights.
grfield1 2 years ago
I happen to agree that fetuses have some rights. I'm making the point that such rights are not equal to the mother's, else there should be no health exception to abortion (or doctor's intervention, as you euphemistically put it) and the logical consequence would be serious limits on individual rights.
Lokisdottir 2 years ago
dont you understand why abortion happens? why condoms exist, the cause? its a function of people, without it, without regulation of birthrates, generation after generation would be born into environments that they cant survive in, the planet would become a overpopulated diseased hell hole. especially as supply stops meeting demand
fluentinsound 2 years ago
I honestly don't know what I think about abortion. I think both sides have equally good arguments. However, I think Bill Maher is one of the last people whose opinion on abortion (or any subject, for that matter) should be cited to support you thesis about it.
JRserver 2 years ago
whys that? because he disagrees with your religious worldview?
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
No, because talking to Bill Maher is a little like talking to a fourteen year old. Both are incredibly immature and don't make arguments based on thought and reasoning but on emotion and volume.
JRserver 2 years ago
@JRserver I only put this clip up because he is thinking a little different than most liberals on abortion
grfield1 1 year ago
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boiiinng 3 years ago 20
@boiiinng What is wrong with our schools?
shawn3975 1 year ago
yeah cause death is always better than bad education.
TiCkToCkMaRiO1473 1 year ago
@boiiinng You could've at least gave George Carlin the credit he deserves for that quote.
notessimodude 5 months ago
Comment removed
boiiinng 5 months ago
@boiiinng I just came here. It's not like I came here 2 years ago, waited, and then commented. Come on, dude. Use your brain.
notessimodude 5 months ago
@boiiinng How is he looking for attention by pointing out that you got your comment from someone else?
ninjajesus81 5 months ago
bill doesnt get it, its not about the sack of cells inside, its about the sack of cells carrying the inner sack of cells
SmashedBobNoPants 3 years ago
I know where u r coming from but in my world view the life of the child trumps the inconvenience of the mother. I'm not talking about real health concerns of the mother.
grfield1 3 years ago
Thats what makes it so great, its your choice, not my choice, no joe blow's choice, but yours
SmashedBobNoPants 3 years ago
What if it was my choice to shoot my neighbor because his music was keeping me awake. Life trumps my choice or yours. Just the way I see things.
grfield1 3 years ago
They are symbiotes until they can breathe on their own. Even then they are not self-aware. In fact, I would doubt most people are self-aware until well into their teens and even early twenties.
boiiinng 3 years ago 8
Funny u should mention that because there were actually at least 2 doctors who approached the American Medical Assoc and proposed that parents be allowed the choice to kill a child up to 9 days old if they decided that they didn't want it. That was propsed like maybe 15 years ago. Of course it was rejected, but the fact that doctors would actually propose it is alarming. Similar suggestions still come up now and again.
grfield1 3 years ago
Within a few weeks they respond to sound etc. You have to set a point at which it is a person, I believe it is conception.
grfield1 3 years ago
"It seems a little..." What characteristics do fetuses/embryos/zygotes, etc... have that we share with them, that the most base of animals do not have?
If they become aware of their surroundings, aware of their own existence, etc.... then we'll talk.
bahramf 3 years ago
So I guess we can stat euthanizing the handicapped, the aged...then maybe people who disagree with u, and so on......
grfield1 2 years ago