The Life of the Soul, Rebirth and other things...

[CocteauBoyTV]

I'm one of the Michael Channels for The Michael Teachings, and this was really cool to come across! Nice to meet you!

[thepathlesspath]

Thanks, likewise!

[TheMorbidAtheist]

you have a strong feeling that reincarnation is true? or even partially true?

maybe that feeling is called wishful thinking?

you refuse to look reality in the eye and see that we are pretty insignificant mortal beings?

people will never learn how to face the truth as long as even some progressive thinkers keep getting into the new age spiritualism, quantum mechanics and pseudoscience

get real people, and grow up

where do we get new souls form btw? there is more people on earth each day

[thepathlesspath]

hey, i'm not interested to prove it or disprove it... whatever it is, it is. describe it however you may, that's alright too. if my mind is secretly wishful, one day i will learn that, if it is not, and this intuition arises through acceptance of the present moment, then that is fine too. all hakuin could say to you in reply, "is that so?" and we can leave it at that; be in peace.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

Did you ever have a strong feeling that there are invisible flying daggers flying all around us? and that they never hit us? No

Why? Because its retarded and because nobody talks about them and there is no personal benefit in you believing in them. The invisible flying daggers which we cant prove or disprove give you no personal benefit

Reincarnation however, does. So you WANT to believe in Reincarnation not because of philosophical reasons but because of emotional reasons

[tonygem]

Love your screen name.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

speaks for itself....

[thepathlesspath]

with things we do not understand, we often mistake the effect for the cause... peace and being to you sir.

[idork]

sounds like you're throwing invisible flying daggers at Jer. Chill out and accept that there are things beyond your understanding and that of humanity's in general.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

you so admit the possibility of invisible flying daggers then? oh fuck

Don't tell me to chill. There are things well within human understanding. And I can defend reality we live in with scientific facts

So we will never find out the truth? even if we exist for 2 more billion years? WE WILL NEVER know what the fuck reality is?

you are useless

[thepathlesspath]

S'o we will never find out the truth? even if we exist for 2 more billion years? WE WILL NEVER know what the fuck reality is? you are useless."

-with an attitude like that, no, you certainly will never find out the truth.

[TheMorbidAtheist]

I ALREADY HAVE found the truth you condescending *****

my attitude has nothing to do with the content of my arguments.

It doesn't matter logically if I say :" The sun will turn into a red giant in 4 billion years" OR

"Hey you fucking assholes! Did you know that the sun will turn into a red giant in 4 billion years?"

the FACT about the sun hasn't changed at all

I know 95% of everything there is to know. And I know defend that "everything" with real-life scientific discoveries and facts

[thepathlesspath]

Oh my! Well... look who is condescending here? Let me be a mirror. :)

[TheMorbidAtheist]

please quote me and tell me where I was condescending for absolutely no reason

so what about those flying daggers? can you answer me?

do you admit a slight possibility that there might be invisible flying daggers?

[ReAnderson90]

have you ever studied Kabbalah??

[thepathlesspath]

hey,

no i haven't actually. you?

[tonygem]

I also look at the genetic issue. We are beings who try to find connections where they may not be any. If there's such a thing as the god-gene or the religion-gene, then why not the reincarnation-gene? We humans have a deep-seated need to make sense out of our existence. I don't know why though. Do you?

[gerontodon]

Is there such a thing as the god-gene or religion-gene though? I think you can look for ulterior motives for any position. A skeptic might want to look tough and honest. When you said "the genetic issue", I thought you might mean that there doesn't seem to be any idea of a mechanism by which karma can express itself as a particular fertilised egg. That's the hardest part of it for me to get my head round.

[esaman]

Well thats because some magic transit of souls is BS as well as the whole idea of separate, continuous souls. As I understand karma, DNA is a part of it because it is what got you here and is part of who you are. Not a big part compared to culture and environment that continue to change who you are on many levels. All those things make an individual unique in details but not really so in big traits. No need to think up soul transfers to explain experiences such as mentioned in the video.

[gerontodon]

Buddhism does say that there is no self, and that all is void containing multiple things, all without inherent existence. They say that what is reincarnated is karma, which is not our true nature. This isn't so very different imo from some "hindu" beliefs, i.e. The Self is all that exists, but cannot be an object of knowledge. Objective reality is an illusion and when that's seen, karma is spent and no more lives are generated. They both seem to posit "streams of perception" rather than "souls".

[tonygem]

My understanding of of "no self" is that in Buddhism there is no distinct or separate self. All of reality is deeply interconnected. So a self exists but not independently of everything else. Therefore what arises dependently also dies or ceases to exist in the same way. The only thing which might be left to transmigrate is the energy that created the whole process to begin with, and that is quite subtle.

[gerontodon]

imho, your description is concise until you said "the energy that created the whole process to begin with". How do you know that we aren't that "energy"? I think you could also see the concept of no-self as indicating that everything is process and there is no "substance". In that case, if we are already process, why could that process not have been going on before this life or continue after it?

[thepathlesspath]

i think we are that energy too... any exhaustive description often misses something.... will we ever entirely be able to describe this abstractly? some may claim so... but only after having profound and direct experiences, which are at the moment subjective.

[tonygem]

Yes, whatever energy there is either in its entirety or in any individual manifestation (going from life to death) is the same. Everything is in process and no part of the equation can be left out. In fact it's all left in. I think about this the same as you. I don't think that "energy" in the widest sense can manifest itself so individually and with any precision. The only thing that transmits is the energy itself. What then contains the life experience of that being? Nothing, I suppose.

[notonewhit]

A fact is like a sack it won't stand up unless you put something in it.

Many systems of understanding are full of empty concepts that serve as sacks for gathering and binding vague experiences. Such systems often merely offer the comfort of delusion.

[thepathlesspath]

These aren't vague experiences... Whatever they are, they can be as natural as breathing, feeling, touching, seeing. I know some use it as you say... but that doesn't account for all descriptions...

[notonewhit]

Breathing typically happens unnoticed; feeling is often vague and resists the simple label; touching is nothing without the touched; what is seen is uncertain without the concept. The conceptual order collapses the nebulous to the pinpointed brilliance of a star-- often erroneously.

Subjective certainty is a psychological state and has nothing to do with Truth. "To think, it is better not to understand." (Lacan)

I know you claim no certainty, but the system you promulgate here does proffer it.

[thepathlesspath]

I think there is some misunderstanding here. I'm not promulgating any system... Just saying there is what is commonly called, "the subtle body," and it is at least, experientially, that is subjectively, as real as conscious breathing, touching - and yes, there is the touched. This stuff isn't meant to be rational... It's what's often called a-rational, and though that is called a cop-out, it's difficult to convey the concept-less. Not a system...

[thepathlesspath]

The michael teachings is just a description... not to be taken literally. just fyi kinda thing.

[notonewhit]

My point was meant to be critical of reincarnation. It is philosophically suspect, regardless of its sense-making or narrative ability. I don't have a problem with people who base their ethics on it.

The a-rational (ir-rational) is what we attempt to make sense of. There is mystery in what remains a-rational (the other kind of sense), but it is a mystery for reason only.

I'll look for the Michael stuff.

[notonewhit]

The Michael stuff is full of tessellated concepts and it is far from a-rational, it rather represents rationality gone wild.

[esaman]

I'd say you are missinterpreting you experiences. Not totally but badly. There where, ARE and will be people who share your personality traits and experience the world similarly. You could say that you have a single soul, but not in the way that your personal soul will reincarnate when you die. The soul count thing is a total BS.

Reincarnation is IMO a dumbed down methaphor made to drive home some moral implications for people who dont really get hindu and buddhist philosophical worldviews.

[thepathlesspath]

hey esaman. i don't know what the "soul count" thing is, and i don't think that those i'm connected with are reborn as a part of the same soul... but they do tend to show up again. i do think that reincarnation as its commonly understood is about moral karma, etc. it's way beyond that... so i think we're agreeing here...

[gerontodon]

I've heard it said that reincarnation really means that we are not the same person from one moment to the next. Is that what you'd call the un-dumbed down view? There are certainly subtle and misunderstood aspects of what hindu and buddhist sages have said about reincarnation. I am sure though, that they didn't mean it as a metaphor, only having implications for the nature of identity from moment to moment. Of course it does have those implications - which is part of the case for reincarnation.

[esaman]

Especially buddhism IMHO explicitly argues that all the continuous "own" self/soul concepts are just that -- illusory ego constructs have little to do with reality. Reincarnation I would say is either an unenlightened interpretation of karma/causality principles OR a way to say that what "you" do will come back to "you" with underlining thought of "which is true even and especially since there is no personal you".

[NatureLoveGirl]

I most definitely agree with you. This is such a great way to think about life. I am an old soul; any people throughout my life have told me so as well. But, I think as an old soul I'm most likely to feel "different" than the other... which makes sense from what you said (with there being more young souls). I am also very receptive, like you, to different energies. To you have more info about this book? I'd really like to take a look. Thank you.

[thepathlesspath]

Hey hey, here is the link to the Michael Teachings. It's a big website. Alot of interesting things to see. :)

[MaBu888]

Ken Wilber has interesting subtle body in videos. Very cultivated and filled with thoughts and insights. I cannot translate beyond this for now.

[gerontodon]

I think reincarnation is real as well. It fits in with Idealist philosophy both Western and Eastern, that, in turn, fits in with science. I believe that is so despite what Dawkins and co might say. I may not know as much science as them, but I know a bit. Many people who knew more than me believed in reincarnation. Karma can be seen in terms of morality, or in any number of other ways that aren't mutually exclusive. That wasn't all relevant to your video, but I'll find out more about "Michael"

[gerontodon]

You could argue that reincarnation is not true since only karma is reincarnated and karma only seems to be who we are.

[ShadowHawk776]

Have you ever contemplated if karma could even exist since morals and ethics are all based upon perception?

Perception seems to be key in philosophy.

Peace

Rob

[thepathlesspath]

Hey Shadow,

To me, karma means action. i feel that karma is often issues or baggage we carry with us from our lives... as well as things we do that may hinder us... which eventually must be released. that's not all of what karma is, but in short i don't see karma as necessarily morality.

[ShadowHawk776]

Hm, well reincarnation IS based on karma and morality.

Perhaps you are thinking of the "recycling" of energy? Energy cannot be created or destroyed kind of thing.

I think what ever the truth may happen to be, one must question, "Why is this important?". Say reincarnation was proven to be true; alright, now what? haha.

Everything always leads back to the question, why is "experience" essentially happening?

Great videos man; I'm sure that they will inspire thought for many people ;)

Peace

Rob

[HaleyMary]

This is a great topic for a video. I have also felt that reincarnation is real. Sometimes I find that there are specific characteristics about people that will make me befriend them. Sometimes I find the characteristics of people that draw me to them are because there are some lessons I need to learn that I failed to learn in a previous life. If that makes any sense.

[thepathlesspath]

Totally does make sense. So many friends have been teachers for me. Many lessons and challenges, I feel.... And sometimes a sense of direction, growth, and important times in life where shifts and changes happen. This has happened recently to me. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this :D

[HaleyMary]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that too. For me, it was an incident in July of last year. I won't go into specifics, but it did allow me to grow as a person. :)